Upgrading 3Zzfe To1Zzfe

[Facelift]

Hey guys! How much did you pay for the intake manifold, TB and injectors?

[dxtian86]

Greetings from the Philippines... I'm now doing a lot of research and this thread I think is the best one available for my project.

I have a 3zz-fe having with a drive by wire throttle body. About converting the intake manifold, injectors and throttle body to 1zz. do i really need to get a cable operated throttle body of a 1zz or is there a driver by wire version of it? sorry for the noob question but i'm having a bit of difficulty understanding some parts of the thread being such a newbie.

also, i just to confirm that by doing the conversion to 1zz there is no need to replace my 3zz ecu?

Thanks for reading and hoping to get a reply from you experts.

BTW I included a pic of my current engine. Its with a 2009 Corolla Altis(thats what we call it here in the PH)

[phatali]

On 28/03/2016 at 7:00 PM, dxtian86 said:

Greetings from the Philippines... I'm now doing a lot of research and this thread I think is the best one available for my project.

I have a 3zz-fe having with a drive by wire throttle body. About converting the intake manifold, injectors and throttle body to 1zz. do i really need to get a cable operated throttle body of a 1zz or is there a driver by wire version of it? sorry for the noob question but i'm having a bit of difficulty understanding some parts of the thread being such a newbie.

also, i just to confirm that by doing the conversion to 1zz there is no need to replace my 3zz ecu?

Thanks for reading and hoping to get a reply from you experts.

BTW I included a pic of my current engine. Its with a 2009 Corolla Altis(thats what we call it here in the PH)

Hi mate. I think this has been done before.  And you can keep the 3zz ecu. It will adapt. 

[dxtian86]

Hi Phatali... can you send me the link of the same project posted.

 

thanks in advance!

[Bakoena]

I was using 3zz before and it had a problem and i bought 1zz from another car from scrap yard.So i was wondering if 1zz will work perfectly without complications or is there any thing to change.

[dxtian86]

I'm still in a limbo regarding this... my 3zz-fe uses an electronic Throttle body but all the available 1zz-fe i can find is using a cable type throttle body.

I was given the advise that i can transfer everything from the 1zz-fe to my 3zz-fe block and head but i have to use the 3zz-fe Tb. I'm not sure if its going to be a problem.

[Bakoena]

I have just put a complete 1zz engine and it started well however the idling is at 2000 and have a light engine on and off although I have not driven it yet. Please assist 

[Dagobert]

Its been a while since some one has responded in this topic,but i will give a shot instead of opening a new topic.I have been reading this topic all trough and there is a lot of information about swapping those 1zzfe parts on the 3/4zzfe.I am also working on this swap with the same ''rev hunting'' issues.I didn't drive it because i did not knew it would take so long to make it go away,in most cases then.Also there is a lot of police in the area where i work on the car (city center) and a lot of Honda ricers and i didn't feel like doing drags at every traffic light.

Anyway i am using a fly by wire throttle body from a Avensis.I first used all the parts including the injectors and it was rev hunting.Took the injectors out and still the same problem.Put the stock intake back with the bigger TB and still rev hunting.Put every back to stock and it was gone again.So the outcome is it haves to do with the TB.And fly by wire doesn't make it any easier...There is no check engine light so the ecu is excepting those injectors.Already tried a ecu reset but no results.

I was thinking about,if possible,swapping the electronics from the 3zzfe TB to the 1zzfe TB.Another option i was thinking about is taking a 1zzfe MAF,no idea if this would help though.One of the forum members from this topic was talking about adding the parts step by step making it easier for the car to adapt.I found that a interesting theory.That would mean first doing the intake,then doing the TB and then the injectors.I don't know how the car is going to run if the injectors will be swapped first and then the TB,because the TB is the problem.Adding the biggest problem as a last step sounds better to me if you take the learning in of the ecu to conciteration.

Looking forward to you're thoughts willing to give this topic even more information and maybe help me out 🙂

 

[Dagobert]

Even though nobody replied, i wanted to share some more information. I tried to fit everything again but this time with more patience. After trying a different resetting method which is putting the negative and the positive wire together for a while. And then just let the car idle. First, it started rev hunting again, but after a minute or so you can just hear the rpm getting steady and going slower in the rev hunt. Then it went up to around 2000 rpm and then slowly getting down around 800 rpm idle! So when the engine is cold it does this for a while, but every time you start the car the period is taking less time.

The effect is a lot more 'go'. The engine seems more willing, less hesitation. Also, the engine sounds like it has more grunt in it when you floor the gas pedal. I am very happy with the results. So for everyone with a fly by wire TB, it can be done 🙂 Just have a little patience.

[Adrien]

Hi everybody !

I know this is an old topic, but I did some mods to my car and I wanted to share some feedback.

I have a 2003 Corolla E12 1.6 VVTI (3ZZ-FE engine).

I read extensively every topic I could find aboud 1ZZ-FE parts on 4ZZ and 3ZZ-FE, I was tempted to do the "throttle body-intake manifold-injectors" mod, but there were three major issue :

- First : injectors were expensive, and on ebay/amazon/ second hand websites, you can find a lot of chinese copies, that I wasn't willing to use. I assumed that 3ZZ injectors weren't working at 100%, even at WOT, so the remaining % would be able to match the extra incoming air.

- Second : On commute trips only, I'm able to have a fuel economy up to 5.1L/100km and between 5.5 and 6L/100km in general (you can follow this on https://www.spritmonitor.de/fr/detail/952471.html) which I find is a very good fuel economy, I'm still surprised a 15 years old car and efficient driving are able to achieve such a performance.

So I didn't want to sacrifice fuel economy for performance.

- Third : I was a little scared to f**k up my car ^_^. I did some basic jobs on my car, such as spark plugs and brakes, but this one scared me a little.

So... I did it, but I decided to let the injectors for another time. I bought a Celica 1ZZ-FE intake manifold + throttle body ; I got some new gaskets, and here we go, I did it !

It took me somewhere between 3 and 4 hours to complete the job. The main points were :

- Super easy to take out the old intake and put the new one in (I read that it was very narrow and difficult)

- there were the same number of "holes" (3 on intake, 3 on TB) I've just needed  30cm of coolant line because :

- Celica TB orientation is totaly different from the Corolla's one, coolant lines are waaay too short as it, you need to cut new ones.

- I got a Corolla Verso 1ZZ-FE air cleaner hose wich was extremely difficule to adapt, although it was the same diameter, It was stiff as hell (because of its age, or because it was ~5°C outside...)

- Electrical connexion to TB was very tight : the cables are a extremely tight fit. I suspect the cable's network has been reworked on on my car, but I managed to make everything work by giving a little slack to the wires.

Then... 1st start ! And I was quite tense as I read that 90% of people had rev hunting for 300 km, idling at 2500rpm and all sort of unpleasant situation.

Well... It started... (yay!) and Idled quietly at 1300rpm cold which was the last thing I expected, and later at 600rpm hot. For information, it always idled at 2000rpm cold, then after few minutes at 1200rpm and then at 600 rpm hot.

Let's go for a drive : between 1500 and 2500rpm very very slight throttle : I immediatly notice a difference : it has much more response, I didn't expected it at these rpm!

then, at all rpm, much better response, more torque, although surprizingly not a lot more noise, which suits me well.

A question I asked myself : Is the torque gain at low rpm not a consequence of performance upgrade, but due to the larger TB opening even at very low throttle demand ? Well, I think it isn't, as I already tried more throttle at these same revs with stock car with no consequence on performance.

Moreover this performance change is easier to feel uphill : sections where it was difficult or impossible with the stock car to be in 5th gear, even with more throttle applied, are now possible with 1ZZ mods on light throttle demand. (I'm not sure "throttle demand" is a correct term : I mean "more or less you're pressing on the throttle pedal")

Does it makes more power ? I'm definitely saying "YES!" without a second though ; no placebo effect, 100% sure. More torque, more power, the engine revs muuuch better at high rpm, there is no doubt about it.

Did the fuel economy changed ? I would say "no" from what I saw on a test commute trip, but with car idling, and some WOT accelerations, it's not a fair comparison. I'll keep you updated on this one.

Well thanks for reading me, I'll post my future impressions and my next fuel tank mileage so we can have a definitive opinion (I already know there will be a lower fuel economy as I'm currently on winter tire, and winter is coming, with certainly some snow driving...)

Bonjour from France !

[Adrien]

Hi,

I see that this topic is not really active, but I'll still post an update :

after 4000Km, I'm very happy about this mod, Fuel economy varies between 5.8 and 5.3 L/100Km driving cautiously (calculated from tank fills) which is satisfying.

Power delivery is soft at lows revs, and engines is happy to rev a little more, but at 90km/h I can drive all the way in 5th gear even with light to moderate uphill.

However, I noticed kind of a rattle if I floor it under 3000rpm. It sounds more like a light but clearly audible low knock than a LSPI-type pinging, however it's nearly impossible to reproduce it in normal driving conditions, as you would clearly downshift if you needed this kind of power.

If someone has an explanation for this, you are welcome.

[Tumezi]

Hi,

I´ve been reading this and many other topics regarding this 3ZZ-FE upgrading, so i did give it a try on my Avensis t25 STW

First installed 1.8 litre manifold and throttle body, faced no issues, only poor accelaration on full throttle. but drived allmost year with it.

Yesterday i swapped injectors to 23250-0D050 these are the BLUE ones used on matrix, but then the issues started, these should be 255CC like 23250-22040 but with 12 holes instead of 4?

It has much more power on low RPM and on slight throttle, but when i pull full throttle OR the rev´s go over 4000Rpm the engine cuts out/stalls and goes way too rich.(throw error for rich)

I attached few pictures, before injector change the LTFT was near zero on idle at stock 3ZZ-FE injectors, but after swapping the LTFT went to -39%, but with full throttle it shows -6%

Parts used:

Manifold 1ZZ-FE avensis

Throttle body from Celica 1.8, year 2000 i think.

Injectors:23250-0D050 from eBay should be new ones/remanufactured

MAF:original

So any tips, or should i just go the green injectors, or are the new injectors bad/leaking?

[Adrien]

Hi,

It's been more than one year now that I swapped my original 3zz intake manifold and throttle body for 1zz (celica) ones. I'm still on 3zz injectors.

Ltft is somewhere around +- 4%, dont remember exactly, but definitely normal.

Acceleration has increased at all rpm's, and this is strongly noticeable over 5000 rpm up to redline.

On 10/17/2019 at 8:31 AM, Tumezi said:

I´ve been reading this and many other topics regarding this 3ZZ-FE upgrading, so i did give it a try on my Avensis t25 STW

First installed 1.8 litre manifold and throttle body, faced no issues, only poor accelaration on full throttle. but drived allmost year with it.

[...]

So any tips, or should i just go the green injectors, or are the new injectors bad/leaking?

What you're saying makes me wonder : are you sure your car was working/accelerating properly before changing the intake ?

Other possibility ; did you check that throttle cable has enough tension to fully open the butterfly valve ?

By the way, fuel economy is just as good as before when driving carefully : average 5.8L/100 (monitored here), and rattling noise is gone since I moved from 1200m elevation place for sea level elevation place

[Tumezi]

Hi,
It's been more than one year now that I swapped my original 3zz intake manifold and throttle body for 1zz (celica) ones. I'm still on 3zz injectors.
Ltft is somewhere around +- 4%, dont remember exactly, but definitely normal.
Acceleration has increased at all rpm's, and this is strongly noticeable over 5000 rpm up to redline.
What you're saying makes me wonder : are you sure your car was working/accelerating properly before changing the intake ?
Other possibility ; did you check that throttle cable has enough tension to fully open the butterfly valve ?
By the way, fuel economy is just as good as before when driving carefully : average 5.8L/100 (monitored here), and rattling noise is gone since I moved from 1200m elevation place for sea level elevation place

Hi,

I did forget To update this.
But yea the car was working fine, fully rebuild engine and drive about 8000km after that before installed the blue ones. But after changing blue ones out and installed Green 1zz-fe injectors the car has run fine No knocking etc.. and average consumption is like 6.5L/100km.

Really dont know What was wrong on the blue ones..
But nevertheless car is running now quite good and feels More powerful.

Only thing What i notice is that revs jump, when i have speed like 30kmh and shift To neutral on speed, but when stopped on lights the idle is fine. Maybe idle control valve isnt so good, or something Else.

Lähetetty minun LYA-L29 laitteesta Tapatalkilla

[cjdy13]

Hi guys, was just wondering if the 3zz crankshaft pulley is the same as the 1zz crankshaft pulley? I'm looking to get a lightened aluminum one for the 3zz. Also, will 1zz camshafts fit the 3zz? Thanks!

[dominik.pinos]

hello can I use intake and throttle body  from 1.8 vvti for example avensis to my corolla e12 1.6 vvti? thank you !

[tobeee]

Greetings from Sweden.. I want to thank this thread by sharing my story.

To make a long story very short. It started with the engine on my Corolla 1.6 VVTi -01 starting to rattling noises about Three or so years ago.

After a bit of googling, I realized that it was the intake manifold that started to fall apart.

After a bit more googling, I found this thread and the idea was raised to do the manifold, throttle body and injector swap. More Power and no rattling noise. WIN WIN.

In Sweden we have a car scrap yard where we can disassemble parts from suitable cars. I was lucky enough to find an Avensis 1.8 VVTi from the same model year and with the correct throttle body and all the Engine intact.

I only paid around 100E for all the parts including the filter box... Thats what i call a lucky ***** and that lucky ***** was for the sake of variet me! I belive only the intake manifold is 600E at the toyotadealer. Well well doesnt matter now. Sometimes your lucky sometimes not 🙂

For me i found out that the job was pretty easy and straight forward. I got at Haynes book and i belive it saved me alot of time.

I also made a simple cheap custom CAI. Used a saw to cut the Avensis filter box just to get something to put the MAP-sensor in. Bought a VERY cheap cone air filter. A flexible plastic pipe. Led the pipe behind the Battery and connected the Air filter in the area in front of the left Wheel.

"The poor man solution to a problem" Its not pretty but hey IT WORKS and i sounds pretty nice. 

The Project was about 4 hours at top and 150E and no problem adapting the ECU. In fact. The IDLE was  perfect from start around 600rpm hot 1200rpm Cold. I was out in the Cold night and i INSTANT felt a big difference

I did som Before and after accelerations Movies and 100-160kmh in 3rd and 4rd gear was 21 s. With the Avensis manifold, throttle body, injectors and my cheap ugly custom CAI its now down to under 15s. Its now 2 years ago and the car still runs like charm and still no fault codes. The acceleration is even to my wifes 2016 Octavia 1.4TSI 150hp and thats impressive.to me. The Ocatvia does 0-100 in low 8s and the top speed is around 215kmh..

[nginx]

Hi.

I could be interested to swap the current injectors of my 4ZZ for 1ZZ ones.

Do you know what's the difference between 23250-22040 and 23250-22080? Would both be compatible with the 4zz?

Thanks!

 

 

[Adrien]

On 8/4/2020 at 12:44 AM, nginx said:

Do you know what's the difference between 23250-22040 and 23250-22080? Would both be compatible with the 4zz?

22080 are for 1zz-FED, which is the southamerican version. 22040 is the standard 1zz (celica, avensis, mr2...)

Some people say 22080 is better because it is more recent, and they are same specs, but I don't know for sure...

[Peter12]

Changed my head and block from 3zz to 1zz and kept the externals. can I change them for the 1zz or would I run into problems?

[nginx]

On 3/15/2021 at 4:26 PM, Adrien said:

22080 are for 1zz-FED, which is the southamerican version. 22040 is the standard 1zz (celica, avensis, mr2...)

Thanks! Ended up ordering the 22040 as these were available for cheap from some US eBay sellers.

I had the same surprise than you reported, but the original injectors of my car (2003 E12) don't appear to come from Bosh but from Denso. Toyota ref is 23250-0D030, and they share similarities with the Bosh ones. It seems to me that the part supposed to be in contact with the rail on the top is not as long (maybe 1mm less) on the 22040 than on the original one.

The 23250-22040 can work fine, with no gasoline leak on top or bottom, but they won't be as tightly bolted as the 0D030: the injectors can be moved a bit up and down: It seems like it's not a perfect fit for the 4ZZ, at least when the rail is setup for the 23250-0D030...

Could this be problematic on the long run? (Let say, if the injector ever goes up 0.5 or 1 millimeter because of engine vibrations). It seems to me that the rail (or the way it's fixed on the engine) is probably slightly different between models, to fit better with the different injectors these cars are sold with.

@Adrien, as you did the mod coming from different injectors, did you encounter the same issue?

[Adrien]

On 8/20/2021 at 11:29 PM, nginx said:

@Adrien, as you did the mod coming from different injectors, did you encounter the same issue?

No, I don't remember to have so much wobble with the injectors, it was a pretty tight fit...

However I did buy a whole fuel rail with the injectors from eBay. If you are concerned about your new setup not being reliable - which was my first concern too - I suggest you spend few bucks more, and find yourself a 1zz fuel rail. I think it is pretty straightforward to change althought I haven't done it.

 

[nginx]

Thanks. I think that the problem was coming from the fact that on the original setup there is a small plastic part that creates more pressure on the rail. It is however possible to get the original rail to fit correctly with the 23250-22040.

[danx4]

as many of you know, some of the 3zz throttle bodys are electronic, i wanted to know if anyone knows if theres an electronic one for 1.8 1zz that will fit with the 1zz manifold?