Hello And Advice.?

[lambo7]

Charlie, i'm not buying the car with luck and i do thank you all for the help and advice.

But What if i walk away and this is one of the Rav's that dont suffer from drinking oil etc and its one of the better ones??

i understand that their is an engine problem and quite a few one here have had issues but Toyota must have sold 1000's if not hundreds of thousands of these cars and 10% ish have faults.? years ago i bought a 4 year old Prelude and they are solid cars, after a few months i needed a new gearbox. it was ok up until then....some cars you get lucky with some you dont.? everyone needs some luck.

its a really nice car fully loaded and its made it to 80,000, so i hope it makes to another 30 ish :-)

thanks so much for your help again and i do appreciate the advice.

[CharlieFarlie]

Lets look again.... If You are hell bent on a T180 then buy mine !! It has a very full and documented history and of course has had the engine done.. It has 61,500 miles and is in likely the best condition for one of these cars in the UK today.. It also has just about every factory option that can be fitted and a few more...

BUT it remains a risk !! Every one of these cars is IMHO a risk I personally would not advise anyone to take !!

Yes of course all cars have problems but not as large... What I mean is that advising a person to buy one of these is just ridiculous !! Why ?? Surely it cant be because I'm all-right jack ??

Tell us a little more about the car you are looking at ? Spec ? Condition ? ect ect ??

My main point here is that to find Yourself with a car out of warranty with the engine issues would for most be a disaster...... Is there enough coin in the budget to replace the engine if it goes pear shaped outside of the warranty period ??

Its a risk and a !Removed! big one as well ... Numbers ? Well I would bet more than half of the members on here with 2.2 Ravs have had their engines replaced... Now that is a very serious number indeed......

If You must buy a Rav buy a petrol one !!

[lambo7]

Charlie, you have PM

[DjRav]

Lets look again.... If You are hell bent on a T180 then buy mine !! It has a very full and documented history and of course has had the engine done.. It has 61,500 miles and is in likely the best condition for one of these cars in the UK today.. It also has just about every factory option that can be fitted and a few more...

BUT it remains a risk !! Every one of these cars is IMHO a risk I personally would not advise anyone to take !!

Yes of course all cars have problems but not as large... What I mean is that advising a person to buy one of these is just ridiculous !! Why ?? Surely it cant be because I'm all-right Jack ??

Tell us a little more about the car you are looking at ? Spec ? Condition ? ect ect ??

My main point here is that to find Yourself with a car out of warranty with the engine issues would for most be a disaster...... Is there enough coin in the budget to replace the engine if it goes pear shaped outside of the warranty period ??

Its a risk and a !Removed! big one as well ... Numbers ? Well I would bet more than half of the members on here with 2.2 Ravs have had their engines replaced... Now that is a very serious number indeed......

If You must buy a Rav buy a petrol one !!

Charlie,

Greatest respect to you, you are the most knowledgeable and experienced person on this subject, but please leave room for other peoples opinions. I have an "at risk" 2.2 57 plate. I still sleep at night quite soundly. My Rav is the best car I've ever owned and I'd buy it again in a heart beat. I don't believe anyone has actually given accurate figures/percentages of problem vehicles but I think your 50% remark is miles out. I'm not going to guess but I believe that forums attract the people with problems, so is slightly weighted. That said I doubt if 20% of the affected Rav's on here have or will ever get this problem. You make it sound inevitable and I believe it's not.

Dave

[anchorman]

Lets look again.... If You are hell bent on a T180 then buy mine !! It has a very full and documented history and of course has had the engine done.. It has 61,500 miles and is in likely the best condition for one of these cars in the UK today.. It also has just about every factory option that can be fitted and a few more...

BUT it remains a risk !! Every one of these cars is IMHO a risk I personally would not advise anyone to take !!

Yes of course all cars have problems but not as large... What I mean is that advising a person to buy one of these is just ridiculous !! Why ?? Surely it cant be because I'm all-right Jack ??

Tell us a little more about the car you are looking at ? Spec ? Condition ? ect ect ??

My main point here is that to find Yourself with a car out of warranty with the engine issues would for most be a disaster...... Is there enough coin in the budget to replace the engine if it goes pear shaped outside of the warranty period ??

Its a risk and a !Removed! big one as well ... Numbers ? Well I would bet more than half of the members on here with 2.2 Ravs have had their engines replaced... Now that is a very serious number indeed......

If You must buy a Rav buy a petrol one !!

you are the most knowledgeable and experienced person on this subject

Most experienced in engine failures but that doesn't mean most knowledgeable. This is a bigger thing than having the most failures and it is more about understanding what the numbers mean along with what Toyota have done to rectify the problem. As for not recognising what the prospect of owning a RAV means well it wouldn't be much of an owners club if we were all mortified about owning one would it?!!!

I found this which says that they sold 8000 in the first month of the 4.2 (and a very rare picture of a 55 plate 4.3 - anyone know where this is?) There must be hundreds of thousands now and until we know for sure then I will disregard the fear factor.

http://www.carpages....-1-27-06-06.asp

If this is anything to go by, second hand values are predictable and in line with what we hear about on the forum. There is no need for throwing ourselves off a viaduct just yet;

http://www.usedcarex...-4/price-guide/

http://www.usedcarex...-v/price-guide/

http://www.usedcarex...il/price-guide/

http://www.usedcarexpert.co.uk/cars/mitsubishi/shogun/price-guide/

[CharlieFarlie]

Lets look again.... If You are hell bent on a T180 then buy mine !! It has a very full and documented history and of course has had the engine done.. It has 61,500 miles and is in likely the best condition for one of these cars in the UK today.. It also has just about every factory option that can be fitted and a few more...

BUT it remains a risk !! Every one of these cars is IMHO a risk I personally would not advise anyone to take !!

Yes of course all cars have problems but not as large... What I mean is that advising a person to buy one of these is just ridiculous !! Why ?? Surely it cant be because I'm all-right Jack ??

Tell us a little more about the car you are looking at ? Spec ? Condition ? ect ect ??

My main point here is that to find Yourself with a car out of warranty with the engine issues would for most be a disaster...... Is there enough coin in the budget to replace the engine if it goes pear shaped outside of the warranty period ??

Its a risk and a !Removed! big one as well ... Numbers ? Well I would bet more than half of the members on here with 2.2 Ravs have had their engines replaced... Now that is a very serious number indeed......

If You must buy a Rav buy a petrol one !!

Charlie,

Greatest respect to you, you are the most knowledgeable and experienced person on this subject, but please leave room for other peoples opinions. I have an "at risk" 2.2 57 plate. I still sleep at night quite soundly. My Rav is the best car I've ever owned and I'd buy it again in a heart beat. I don't believe anyone has actually given accurate figures/percentages of problem vehicles but I think your 50% remark is miles out. I'm not going to guess but I believe that forums attract the people with problems, so is slightly weighted. That said I doubt if 20% of the affected Rav's on here have or will ever get this problem. You make it sound inevitable and I believe it's not.

Dave

Dave You are right everyone has an opinion and I respect yours.......

Don You amaze Me... You really are blinkered when it comes to this issue !!

How can You advise anyone to buy a vehicle with so many problems....

Is it normal for so many to require replacement ??

You have in the past said You have helped 5 or 6 people get replacements carried out ?

Almost every week someone usually a new member comes on here with a description of the symptoms these cars display .. They are then given advice and 9 times out of 10 end up with new or replacement engines ...Is this usual ??

Every Dealer in the UK has done lots of replacements .. Is this usual..

When My first engine was done there were 3 other cars also being done, Same problem same issue.. Second time around it was one of 5 !! Is this usual ??

Of course every car has its problems but not usually such a major problem as these constant engine changes... Show Me another car or make of car that has and continues to have so many engine problems and replacements ???

The OP came here for advice on a car He knows little about and some advise Yes buy it ... I ask why ? Is it because they have one ?

I am genuinely puzzled Don why You constantly advise folk to buy even though you know the statistics and have helped so many with their engine replacements ?? You also realise the extended warranty is running out and Owners of cars that start displaying the symptoms will be left with a massive bill that will likely be more than the car is worth... WHY ?? Surely it cant be because You have one ????

I'm going to put up some pictures for the OP as He as asked via PM..... My advice remains the same though..... If You must have a 4.3 Rav4 Buy a petrol........... No one advising will be there wallets open if the thing goes wrong !

[CharlieFarlie]

Pictures as requested ..........

[lambo7]

Charlie Please see your PM.

[CharlieFarlie]

Replied.........

See here for disabling the wire that sets the dash panel light if running without Run flats on the car.

http://www.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=130476

There was a thread about the tyre issue We discussed on the phone but cant find it .....................

[firemac]

Replied.........

See here for disabling the wire that sets the dash panel light if running without Run flats on the car.

http://www.toyotaown...howtopic=130476

There was a thread about the tyre issue We discussed on the phone but cant find it .....................

Umm, Charles, Old Man, have you ever actually taken your car out on the road?

It looks like a permanent showroom exhibit. Credit to you - I wouldn't have the patience......

[anchorman]

I just tend not to worry about it. If I bought an old one I would assess it and get it fixed under warranty if it caused me any concern. If I bought a newer one I would be comfortable that it wasn't going to cause any problems. I suppose I might get bothered if I found some rot in my roof but you would shrug your shoulders and say "so what".

I definitely feel that a RAV makes a far better proposition than many of the current alternatives.

[CharlieFarlie]

Don I agree !! I do honestly !! But as the warranty's run short how about the rest of Us ??

My point is that to buy one and find issues outside of warranty would be a major problem.. For most of Us changing a fuse is enough on today's complex cars ... Where would I/We start if faced with an engine needing replacement outside of warranty ???

I spoke with Steve today and asked Him if he could afford such a major repair IF and I do realise that it is an IF and not a when an issue of this nature arose ? Of course no one really can and that's the main thing here surely.

Buy a petrol ? Yes.. Buy a pre AD car with the 2.0 Diesel Yes................ Sorry to take a punt on a car that may or may not have had an engine replacement is one hell of a punt ...............................................................

[lambo7]

hi,

I've spoken to Charlie and as much as his car looks great, I just cant afford it :-(

so, i've heard a lot about the 2.0 ltr Petrol Rav4 but are they ok as i'm looking a two tomorrow 75k and 80k, both FSH etc.

are high ish mileage petrol ones OK.?

thanks

[firemac]

hi,

I've spoken to Charlie and as much as his car looks great, I just cant afford it :-(

so, i've heard a lot about the 2.0 ltr Petrol Rav4 but are they ok as i'm looking a two tomorrow 75k and 80k, both FSH etc.

are high ish mileage petrol ones OK.?

thanks

We've got two. One is 02-reg 5-dr auto with 76K miles up, bought new. The other is 54-reg 3dr auto with 48K miles that I bought in May '11 from a Toyota dealer with 27K miles up & FSH. 5-dr is VX with all the toys (as was in 2002 - not as loaded as newer ones, of course) and was in Toyota's warranty for 1st 7 years & WD since. No issues other than a few EMS sensors, all replaced under the warranties. Only issue was cat failure in 2010 which I blame on one crap Toyota dealer that we had the misfortune to get involved with & whose "technicians" were too stupid to associate multiple sensor replacements with a failing cat. Other than that the car is probably the best I've owned & my only concern is what we'll replace it with when the inevitable time comes.

I bought the 3-dr on the strength of the 5-dr experience, as well as having owned a 55-reg D4D RAV & an LC4 after that. I can't recommend the vvti petrol engines & the auto boxes highly enough. Yes, the MPG isn't brilliant (25 & 33 mpg respectively in the two cars) but performance is good, NVH is very good and reliability has been 100% (touching wood!).

I would say that, as long as the car comes with a credible service history, it should be bullet-proof mechanically. If you look at the latest WD (Warranty Direct) reliability survey on 3-7 year-old cars, you'll see that Toyota comes 2nd (Honda's first - grrrr!). Funnily enough JLR comes.........last......again!!!! Can't believe that people buy those piles of disco *****! Sorry, I digress.....

If you find a nice vvti, with a FSH, you won't go too far wrong.

Hope this helps & good luck.

[CharlieFarlie]

Go for a petrol.. Much as I would like to sell this car it is still a liability and one I personally would not advise a friend to buy......

[flyboyprowler]

I join Charlie, but add that there is always choice. I have my Spanish 2003 petrol auto, and the newer 2007 petrol auto, here in UK. The Spanish car gets a lot of off road work, and in four years has never missed a beat. Genuine 31 mpg, and a comfortable ride over long distance. The 4.3, low mileage, and again a lovely car to drive and own.

There is also a lot of stuff in the motoring press, as to true costings between petrol and diesel engines generally, and Which mag have shown that a diesel is not necessarily the best deal. In past years they always said that you need to do around 15000 miles to make the costings pay. More to buy new, and I believe more to service, and with diesel fuel costing more than petrol here, the petrol makes even more sense.

Apply it all to the RAV, and petrol makes a lot more sense, and has any one had major issues with the petrol engine, in any guise, other than that caused by bad maintenance.

IMHO, the world has gone diesel / electric mad, but if it were my choice, the petrol gets it EVERY time.

And Charlie, your car looks fantastic, has it been "clay barred" or what polish do you use!!

[firemac]

I join Charlie, but add that there is always choice. I have my Spanish 2003 petrol auto, and the newer 2007 petrol auto, here in UK. The Spanish car gets a lot of off road work, and in four years has never missed a beat. Genuine 31 mpg, and a comfortable ride over long distance. The 4.3, low mileage, and again a lovely car to drive and own.

There is also a lot of stuff in the motoring press, as to true costings between petrol and diesel engines generally, and Which mag have shown that a diesel is not necessarily the best deal. In past years they always said that you need to do around 15000 miles to make the costings pay. More to buy new, and I believe more to service, and with diesel fuel costing more than petrol here, the petrol makes even more sense.

Apply it all to the RAV, and petrol makes a lot more sense, and has any one had major issues with the petrol engine, in any guise, other than that caused by bad maintenance.

IMHO, the world has gone diesel / electric mad, but if it were my choice, the petrol gets it EVERY time.

And Charlie, your car looks fantastic, has it been "clay barred" or what polish do you use!!

Agree completely, Ainsley. I think it is also worth pointing out that one of the big issues with modern diesels is the complexity involved in trying to compete with the relative sophistication of petrol engines, i.e. DMF's to smooth out the transmission, DPF's to clean up the soot, sophisticated management systems to extend the usable torque-curve, etc. Failure of one or all of these will make the diesel fuel price premium insignificant. And because of increasing competition, manufacturers are leaving less & less margin for redundancy in the technology so failure of key components is more likely once the vehicle goes beyond about 3 yrs old or 100K miles - about when the average warranty ceases.

Let's not forget that tthe diesel engine was never intended for anything other than heavy industrial use and it was originally designed to run on the low quality but widely available vegetable oils that were the norm in the latter half of the 19th century, in other words, it was designed to run on any available shoyte (as they say in Ireland, avoiding the expletive deleter!) hence its use until fairly recently in every kind of industrial or transport application EXCEPT cars & light commercials.

As it's becoming increasingly costly to continue to improve diesel engines dynamically, manufacturers have made some significant improvements to the economy of petrol engines such that, in some cases, it's now cheaper to buy the petrol version of a given car rather than the diesel. Add the continuing reduction in diesel refining capacity, particularly in Europe, and the resurgence of the petrol engine is bound to continue. I reckon we will eventually see diesel power plants back where they belong in heavy industrial applications and not in cars.

Don't get me wrong, there are some truly brilliant diesels engines around; BMW in particular produce what I reckon is the finest range of diesel engines available. I've owned a 520d & genuinely loved it but it was brand new and under warranty for 3 yrs so I didn't have to worry about risks like ingested swirl flaps, etc. There is no way that I would have

a used diesel unless it came with a manufacturer's warranty and at the end of the period, I'd get rid of it.

[anchorman]

Apart from Charlie, is there anyone out there who has a diesel and wishes they didn't?

I know scores of people that run 4.3 diesels and if you tried to talk them into getting rid for a petrol they would think you were nuts. The ones I know that have had engines at RRG are absolutely thrilled and wouldn't swap for the world. There are others who have early ones (2007) and know about the problems but can't be persuaded to consider having the engine changed. I know mine has the later engine but I wouldn't swap it for anything.

I just don't get it.

[firemac]

Apart from Charlie, is there anyone out there who has a diesel and wishes they didn't?

I know scores of people that run 4.3 diesels and if you tried to talk them into getting rid for a petrol they would think you were nuts. The ones I know that have had engines at RRG are absolutely thrilled and wouldn't swap for the world. There are others who have early ones (2007) and know about the problems but can't be persuaded to consider having the engine changed. I know mine has the later engine but I wouldn't swap it for anything.

I just don't get it.

Don, Toyota's BIG failing with the RAV, both 4.2 & 4.3, was in not having the auto box option on the diesel. I know it's available now but it is, I believe, a CVT not the torque converter type that you get in the vvti. If they had, then I would have had one ages ago. I can't understand why they offered the auotobox as standard on the LC D4D but refused to do the same on the RAV; as far as I know the 2.0 & 3.0 D4D engine blocks were similar. They must have lost a hell of a lot of diesel auto sales as a result.

[Gods_gift]

Charlie this isnt't limited to Toyota - Mercedes have and do have issues with petrol V6's see here http://www.slkworld.com/slk-r171-general-discussion/20922-advice-early-slk350-oil-consumption-problem.html

[Manxrav]

It makes you wonder why as I previously mentioned, that Lexus have dropped the 2.2 diesel from their range. As Don and many others have said Toyota did have problems with the 4.2 diesel, but even bigger with the 4.3 diesel up to 2009. Then they must have learn,t by their mistakes and got it nearly right ( so it seems). If they can (touch wood) build a near perfect 1.4D4D what went so wrong with the 2.2D4D. Correct me if I am wrong but am I right in my belief that the 1.4 diesel is Toyota built?

One has to think that they have given up the ghost on the 2.2 D4D, as it will soon be a BMW diesel adorning the Toyota Brand. One wonders if it will be in the new Rav4.4 next year, or is that too soon?

Regards Clare

[anchorman]

The 1.4 is a Toyota design but they cannot be compared. Apart from oil consumption and iffy head gaskets on the early ones, the 2.2 is a masterpiece of modern design.

Gods Gift has quoted Merc but BMWs are an absolute nightmare.

[CharlieFarlie]

Apart from Charlie, is there anyone out there who has a diesel and wishes they didn't?

I know scores of people that run 4.3 diesels and if you tried to talk them into getting rid for a petrol they would think you were nuts. The ones I know that have had engines at RRG are absolutely thrilled and wouldn't swap for the world. There are others who have early ones (2007) and know about the problems but can't be persuaded to consider having the engine changed. I know mine has the later engine but I wouldn't swap it for anything.

I just don't get it.

Don My whole point is about the risks and liabilities of owning a 2.2 Diesel Rav.......

The car as a car without the problems is a very good package indeed !! I have never said otherwise !!

Yes the petrol is a bit thirstier. Yes its a bit noisy when pushed....

We it seems are never going to agree but the thing is as far as I am concerned is advising some one to buy one of these diesel variants is simply not on unless they posses the skills like your self to put the flaming things right if problems occur...

Blimey once again this week another Member has come on with a complaint of a bill for 2K for a DPNF and that is likely shot as a result of engine problems.. Your first question was has the engine been done...

You pointed out a roof problem would not be an issue top Me and of course it would not because I would not be ending up with a huge bill...

And there is the problem... Steve (The OP ) Simply cannot afford a huge bill or the liability of one if as many others have experienced the sodding lights on the dash illuminate.........

The numbers are simply staggering when it comes to the amount of replacements done and continue to rise.. Warranty's are now running short and yet still You advise its a good idea to buy one >>>

Sorry but I just don't get that ...............

[CharlieFarlie]

Charlie this isnt't limited to Toyota - Mercedes have and do have issues with petrol V6's see here http://www.slkworld....on-problem.html

Good point Mate... Thats another car I will never buy then ...

[CharlieFarlie]

The 1.4 is a Toyota design but they cannot be compared. Apart from oil consumption and iffy head gaskets on the early ones, the 2.2 is a masterpiece of modern design.

Gods Gift has quoted Merc but BMWs are an absolute nightmare.

A masterpiece of modern design ? You are joking ?? I bet the designer is not a popular Guy with Toyota..

OK so Mercedes and BMWs may be a nightmare so don't buy one...... I repeat all cars have problems.. But an engine is about as big as it gets !!!

My mistake when I bought the Rav was not doing the research ! If I had I would simply have never bought on and that's a sure fact..

But when a New Chap asks a question He is entitled to the facts warts and all..............