Hello And Advice.?

[Gods_gift]

Heres another one Nissan this time http://www.navaraownersclub.com/2009/10/the-infamous-d22-engine-problem/

[CharlieFarlie]

Heres another one Nissan this time http://www.navaraown...engine-problem/

Heres another one Nissan this time http://www.navaraown...engine-problem/

Another very good reason for not following My mistake and just going out and buying a car without asking questions first !!

But just because other specific cars have problems it doesn't lessen the blow or resolve the problems that the Rav with its 2.2 Diesel has...

[Gods_gift]

Interestingly Nissan Qashqai issues with fuel pumps http://forum.qashqaiclub.co.uk/engine-problems_topic9787.html

My point is all marques have issues it's how they address them thats the issue. You can't fault Toyota for replacing engines with very little hoops to jump through compared to Mercedes who appear to make you go through a protracted oil consumption test and importantly a Merc FSH before they only change the piston rings.

[Gods_gift]

Just to add looks like the Kuga has injector and dpf issues http://www.kugaownersclub.co.uk/forum/engine-malfunction_topic2733.html

[CharlieFarlie]

Interestingly Nissan Qashqai issues with fuel pumps http://forum.qashqai..._topic9787.html

My point is all marques have issues it's how they address them thats the issue. You can't fault Toyota for replacing engines with very little hoops to jump through compared to Mercedes who appear to make you go through a protracted oil consumption test and importantly a Merc FSH before they only change the piston rings.

Again I agree totally that all cars have issues.. I also will say that Toyota have done far more than anyone could ever expect and I have been treated VERY well throughout the problems with My car...

But that extended warranty is running out now for the early cars .. So the closer to the 7 years the greater the risk becomes..

I will never buy another car without doing the homework again..

Silly stuff like EGR valves on some Fords is a pain in the backside.. But at least its not a major problem.. To be left with any modern car with an unserviceable engine is major to most of Us .....

The Transits and Mondeos had reputed Injector problems and dodgy EGRs.. I ran Fords for Years and had only a couple of EGRs... Injectors have been featured on here from time to time so they are not 100% on Toyota either..

[DjRav]

Seems we all agree then. Nearly all brands get problems. Maybe it's "better the devil you know" rather than "the grass is greener on the other side".

Fact remains Toyota is one of the top two brands IMO. So I'll stick with them.

Favour Diesel over Petrol ANY day of the week.

Favour Manual over Auto EVERY time as well.

So my manual, Diesel, Toyota would seem perfect?!

Just got to change the Disco for an LC now, but apparently most of them won't tow the weight? Think it's only the "Amazon" variety. Prob wrong forum, but I know a few of you have/had LC's so maybe know?

Veering off subject Dave

[Gods_gift]

What weight you looking to tow?

[anchorman]

We can go on for ever more and I'm sure folk get fed up of us debating this subject but what would you say for those people that have had a new engine and are now happy (I can't make out if you have been very unlucky or if your dealer has incompetent mechanics). Mistermina had some issues but that again was with idiots not following the proper guidelines. Apart from you two I don't know that anyone has had any follow up problems. Why can't they go on to enjoy the vehicle for the rest of its useful life?

[DjRav]

What weight you looking to tow?

Disco tows 3500kg. But trailer weighs 1100+ and the horses are around 650 each (x2!) so needs to be min 2500kg capable. But bigger the better really. Also get up to 58 bales of hay in the trailer regularly, but no idea what that weighs!

Dave

[CharlieFarlie]

We can go on for ever more and I'm sure folk get fed up of us debating this subject but what would you say for those people that have had a new engine and are now happy (I can't make out if you have been very unlucky or if your dealer has incompetent mechanics). Mistermina had some issues but that again was with idiots not following the proper guidelines. Apart from you two I don't know that anyone has had any follow up problems. Why can't they go on to enjoy the vehicle for the rest of its useful life?

Don this is a forum where We discuss ? If People don't like then move on ?

I'm confused .... I thought We were talking about a car nearing the end of warranty and being a 2.2D..

If so then it is a massive risk and one that should only be taken by a Person who has either the skills or money to correct the car should it spit the dummy after the warranty has expired ??

Obviously a car that has had a 3/4 engine will be a degree less of a liability but a liability none the less.....

I also understand those who have the cars and have suffered No problems sticking up for the cars... Blimey I hear all the time what a load of crap the Jaguar XF is but My one is fantastic and has never given even a tiny issue !

I also understand completely understand how unpopular my posts are making me on this subject.. BUT if some one asks I will give an honest answer as I see it warts an all...

Blimey I only came back here to ask about the reargaurd !!!

When I spoke to the OP about My car I gave a full and honest description but also said in honesty I would not buy one...

So which is right and which is wrong ? To fib a little or remain truthful ?

When My car goes back on Autotrader I will of course not volunteer any of the above information.. I aint that !Removed! daft.... :D

[anchorman]

I don't think anyone is out to fib or deceive the OP but you have given him your opinion. Anyone that doesn't share that opinion is just saying so and I don't think it is much of a risk especially now as the warranty is still valid until March 2013 for the earliest 4.3s. I also think that even then, the owners would have identified a problem and had it done or it simply doesn't exist because the vehicle doesn't use oil or have a head gasket problem. I keep hearing this term "massive risk" but you can't say that without some numbers to back it up. 7000 or 70000 doesn't mean anything without knowing what the size of the whole number is. If the whole number of the those vehicles at risk is large then the risk is small. If the whole number is small then it is now smaller still if your informant is right because they are nearly all done.

At the moment, anyone who comes on here looking for advice will be pointed in the right direction. They will buy one that doesn't have a problem, one that had a problem and has now been fixed or needs to be fixed and we will guide them.

That is why I wouldn't advise anyone with a RAV to fall on their sword.

[valeite]

Apart from Charlie, is there anyone out there who has a diesel and wishes they didn't?

I know scores of people that run 4.3 diesels and if you tried to talk them into getting rid for a petrol they would think you were nuts. The ones I know that have had engines at RRG are absolutely thrilled and wouldn't swap for the world. There are others who have early ones (2007) and know about the problems but can't be persuaded to consider having the engine changed. I know mine has the later engine but I wouldn't swap it for anything.

I just don't get it.

Hi Don

My 2007 4.3 diesel has now covered 34000 mile quite a lot of those with a caravan attached. It is faultless in operation pulls great up Swiss & Italian mountains, but (why is there always a but) I do worry about the engine problems. You state above " there are others who have early (2007) and know about the problems but can't be persuaded to consider having the engine changed." How could you consider a engine change while there are no symptoms? I would jump at the chance if Toyota offered me an engine change for peace of mind.

[CharlieFarlie]

I don't think anyone is out to fib or deceive the OP but you have given him your opinion. Anyone that doesn't share that opinion is just saying so and I don't think it is much of a risk especially now as the warranty is still valid until March 2013 for the earliest 4.3s. I also think that even then, the owners would have identified a problem and had it done or it simply doesn't exist because the vehicle doesn't use oil or have a head gasket problem. I keep hearing this term "massive risk" but you can't say that without some numbers to back it up. 7000 or 70000 doesn't mean anything without knowing what the size of the whole number is. If the whole number of the those vehicles at risk is large then the risk is small. If the whole number is small then it is now smaller still if your informant is right because they are nearly all done.

At the moment, anyone who comes on here looking for advice will be pointed in the right direction. They will buy one that doesn't have a problem, one that had a problem and has now been fixed or needs to be fixed and we will guide them.

That is why I wouldn't advise anyone with a RAV to fall on their sword.

You simply refuse to accept that so many members having had engine changes and the fact that Dealers are replacing engines on a weekly basis indicates a problem !!

I have never been on any other forum where any problem little or large has been repeated so often..

So Don what advice and guidance are You going to give in say 15 months time to a Person who has taken Your advise,, Bought one and its knackered ??

If the fact That Toyota GB have replaced well over 7000 2 AD units and the number continues to rise does not tell someone looking at buying one then that's their problem...

[shcm]

We can go on for ever more and I'm sure folk get fed up of us debating this subject.........

Not getting at anybody or any one person, but er, well, yes quite.

I keep hearing this term "massive risk" but you can't say that without some numbers to back it up. 7000 or 70000 doesn't mean anything without knowing what the size of the whole number is

Possibly you could use this site:

http://howmanyleft.co.uk

to give a rough estimate of how many of vehicles registered in the UK. However, some 4.2 and 4.3 have the same model description for a start, so it would only be very rough. Plus, is this "7000" across all Toyota models? So do you also take into account Avensis, Verso.......

Personally, I can't be bothered to trawl through and add the figures up.

[anchorman]

I don't think anyone is out to fib or deceive the OP but you have given him your opinion. Anyone that doesn't share that opinion is just saying so and I don't think it is much of a risk especially now as the warranty is still valid until March 2013 for the earliest 4.3s. I also think that even then, the owners would have identified a problem and had it done or it simply doesn't exist because the vehicle doesn't use oil or have a head gasket problem. I keep hearing this term "massive risk" but you can't say that without some numbers to back it up. 7000 or 70000 doesn't mean anything without knowing what the size of the whole number is. If the whole number of the those vehicles at risk is large then the risk is small. If the whole number is small then it is now smaller still if your informant is right because they are nearly all done.

At the moment, anyone who comes on here looking for advice will be pointed in the right direction. They will buy one that doesn't have a problem, one that had a problem and has now been fixed or needs to be fixed and we will guide them.

That is why I wouldn't advise anyone with a RAV to fall on their sword.

You simply refuse to accept that so many members having had engine changes and the fact that Dealers are replacing engines on a weekly basis indicates a problem !!

I have never been on any other forum where any problem little or large has been repeated so often..

So Don what advice and guidance are You going to give in say 15 months time to a Person who has taken Your advise,, Bought one and its knackered ??

If the fact That Toyota GB have replaced well over 7000 2 AD units and the number continues to rise does not tell someone looking at buying one then that's their problem...

If it hasn't shown any symptoms in 7 years or 110k I suspect it never will. Meanwhile if a 5 year old Honda, Merc or BMW with 50k shows one of the known issues then the owner is stuffed.

[CharlieFarlie]

Very few if any Honda Merc or BMW engines do what literally THOUSANDS of Toyota 2AD engines have done....... Their lies the difference...

Tell You what... Find Me ANY Honda Merc or BMW dealer that has changed 5 engines of the exact same type IE the 2AD in a week.... Or even three...

Toyota are due massive credit for rectifying the problem BUT WHY ? Simple really isn't it ? Its because the farked up the day they designed the 2AD engine !!!

They could not risk a repeat of the brake issue debacle of a few years ago...

Masterpiece of design ? Oh Really ...

It is quite simply ridiculous to say that after 7 years or 110K miles will see the end of Folk experiencing problems ! Many cars will go after the warranty expires and most of those I would suspect will be cars with less that half the mileage of 110K

And that is the point for some reason You simply refuse to grasp !!

Are You going personally to guarantee that You can "guide" someone when they come on here and tell us that their car is cream crackered outside of the warranty period ? Without a bill to them that is ??

Sorry but simply put its irresponsible to advise anyone to buy one of the affected cars !!!

[Gods_gift]

Actually the reason Merc dealers won't replace 5 engines a week is because they won't admit theres is a problem that they in fact %$(ed up the design too.

No ones debating there has been an issue but you cant say it's with all engines charlie as you just dont have the proof. You can say a percentage of engines were duff but you cant say all an you cant even say a high percentage as tou dont have the stats.

So if a new owner of a pre 2007 4.3 Rav needs advice I'd say buyer beware it has been know that there was an issue with some of the engines but Toyota will rectify it if it's within the terms of the warranty.

Actually if you think about it how many cars of any marque in the past that are over 6 years old/112,000 miles have garages changed head gaskets on an I can bet the number is quite high. If anyone on herehas owned a Rover K series engined car it was almost every 12,000 miles.

[Gods_gift]

According to that site posted earlier theres 12,500 Rav4 D-4D's between 2006-2007...

T180 2.3k

Xtr d4d 3.4k

Xt3 1.8k

Xt4 3.5k

Xt5 1.5k

Total 12.5k

[CharlieFarlie]

Actually the reason Merc dealers won't replace 5 engines a week is because they won't admit theres is a problem that they in fact %$(ed up the design too.

No ones debating there has been an issue but you cant say it's with all engines charlie as you just dont have the proof. You can say a percentage of engines were duff but you cant say all an you cant even say a high percentage as tou dont have the stats.

So if a new owner of a pre 2007 4.3 Rav needs advice I'd say buyer beware it has been know that there was an issue with some of the engines but Toyota will rectify it if it's within the terms of the warranty.

Actually if you think about it how many cars of any marque in the past that are over 6 years old/112,000 miles have garages changed head gaskets on an I can bet the number is quite high. If anyone on herehas owned a Rover K series engined car it was almost every 12,000 miles.

We seem to keep going round the same thing ?

Yes of course so far Toyota have stuck to their guns and are replacing the engines and still on a very regular basis....

You are correct the K series engine in the Rovers were also a liability but that's not what this thread is about.. Its about the Toyota 2AD engine and none of the other manufacturers.. But as You have mentioned the K series I would rather be looking at replacing a head gasket on a petrol engine than replacing a 2.2 Diesel engine...

Same with Mercedes... The OP asked about the Toyota not the Merc and no matter how many examples of other problems with other cars are thrown up it does nor disguise the fact that the 2AD Is a VERY risky prospect...

So if the OP goes and buys that car the comes on here in say 14 or 15 months time and tells Us all that his engine has spat the dummy then what ?? Guidance ? Please explain how that is going to help ????????????????

You have put up the number of Ravs (2007) ? But this problem affects ALL 2AD engines not just 2006/7 ....

Its an inescapable fact that new Members come here all the time with the lights on the dash illuminating, Fault codes being thrown up, Blocked EGRs, DPNR units or cat converters or DPF filters call them what You like occuring and usually ending up with a replacement engine ....

On NO other forum I have ever been on have I heard this amount of problems...

To the OP like most folk He has a budget. That budget is all He has or wishes to spend on his next car.. So when purchased large bills whether now or when the warranty expires would be very unwelcome...

We are talking about the engine here. Plus the other possibilities like DPNR which another Member just this week was told was going to cost 2 thousand pounds..

Of course I cant and never have said its all engines.. But blimey its one hell of a lot !!

With the knowledge we now have and the problem coming up time and time again why on earth would anyone who had had the sense (I did not) to ask the questions buy one ????????????????

[Davrav]

The fact that not all the 'potentially affected' engines have had issues points more likely to a QC/QA failure during manufacture, rather than a design fault.

Using the figures loosely from the website SHCM posted, there are approximately 16.5K Ravs between 2006-8 and probably three times as many Avensis/Auris. I imagine we are talking at least 100K vehicles with the 2AD engine and I would think there are many high milers out there.

So maybe 7% have had issues.

That being said, if I still have my RAV after the 7 year, 112K extended warranty limit with a full Toyota maintenance record and it starts to exhibit the recognised problems I'm not going to be a happy bunny.......................

[CharlieFarlie]

The fact that not all the 'potentially affected' engines have had issues points more likely to a QC/QA failure during manufacture, rather than a design fault.

Using the figures loosely from the website SHCM posted, there are approximately 16.5K Ravs between 2006-8 and probably three times as many Avensis/Auris. I imagine we are talking at least 100K vehicles with the 2AD engine and I would think there are many high milers out there.

So maybe 7% have had issues.

That being said, if I still have my RAV after the 7 year, 112K extended warranty limit with a full Toyota maintenance record and it starts to exhibit the recognised problems I'm not going to be a happy bunny.......................

Cant argue with the logic David.. IF its a QC thing though the results of an engine displaying the symptoms is just the same.

I genuinely thought that the usual mileage for problems was between 40 and 50 K miles as it seemed for a while to be a common denominator... But since that several have had issues at around the 80K mark.

[anchorman]

Interesting debate.

When I get chance I will do an age versus milage poll to see if we can get some figures of our own.

[CharlieFarlie]

Whether its a QC issue or a Design fault the problems can manifest at any Age. Mileage, or any time.. Therein lies the problem I/WE/You just simply don't know ! ..

[DjRav]

Surely by now Toyota have had "so many" engines back they have discovered the exact cause?

No one knows the percentages (some on here make it sound like a fifty/fifty chance, some more like a 5% chance) but there are thousands of Ravs out there having no problems at all.

Toyota have been great extending to 7 year/112k warranty, but not so good at being upfront with numbers/cause etc.

Dave

[CharlieFarlie]

Surely by now Toyota have had "so many" engines back they have discovered the exact cause?

No one knows the percentages (some on here make it sound like a fifty/fifty chance, some more like a 5% chance) but there are thousands of Ravs out there having no problems at all.

Toyota have been great extending to 7 year/112k warranty, but not so good at being upfront with numbers/cause etc.

Dave

Dave You cannot begin to imagine how many times I have asked this very question !! They really do seem to have no idea OR they are not saying !!

If not saying Why ??

Surely they Must know ! And if they do and are refusing its a fair assumption to think something is seriously wrong......

How many cars have I had ?? Honestly I have had well over a hundred cars. This does not include the vans either.......

How many times have I seen or heard of any car or van that has had so many engine swaps ??? Well You know the answer...

I was a few months ago considering an RR Sport as the replacement car... This time I did the homework. Big issues with those cars is the front suspension knocking... So I moved on. Cost of eliminating problems of that nature on that car was around £1000.. Not cheap but cheap in comparison to having to replace an out of warranty 2AD engine and that's if it hasn't taken the DPNF unit with it !

Percentage chance ? Well how many 2.2 Owners on here have had replacements ??

Ha Ha Sorry but its one hell of a lot is it not ?? Also remember that some of Us have had more than one !! Not great figures is it ? Plus every couple of weeks along comes another one..

Norma ?? I think not !