The Usual Newb Questions.

[Ovv]

Hi everyone, just joined the forum and looking for some advise on the different models.

My wife's A3 is currently due to be replaced and we have started looking around for replacements. I quite fancy the SR180 model, as its similar horsepower to the A3 (170) and the one that I saw online had leather ( a must for wiping up baby sick etc) whereas all the other D-4D XTR models Ive seen are regular cloth material.

I hoping to pop through to Edinburgh next week to try and compare the models, but just wondered if anyone had had the pleasure of either owning both at some point or have test driven both before?

Im keen on the RAV4 as my neighbour and his wife have got one each and during the bad weather with 2 two years, they were the only couple to get up and down the steep hill into where we live, but Im also looking at CRV's as well as they look like they will provide us with more room - Im not convinced the RAV4 is much bigger than the A3, except in height.

Anyways, sorry for the rambling and newb questions,

Chris.

[flyboyprowler]

Welcome Chris to the forum.

The first thing to say is, that if you are not buying new, or nearly new, then you MUST look at the comments on the forum, regarding diesel cars. Having said that, our man Charliefarlie, has a lovely 180 for sale, all sorted and immaculate, and he is in Scotland!

Anyway best of luck, and I certainly think you will enjoy the car when you eventually get one, and this forum is a mine of valuable information and help.

Ainsley

[Ovv]

Welcome Chris to the forum.

The first thing to say is, that if you are not buying new, or nearly new, then you MUST look at the comments on the forum, regarding diesel cars. Having said that, our man Charliefarlie, has a lovely 180 for sale, all sorted and immaculate, and he is in Scotland!

Anyway best of luck, and I certainly think you will enjoy the car when you eventually get one, and this forum is a mine of valuable information and help.

Ainsley

Hi Ainsley,

Thanks for the reply. Im intending on buying nearly new, well 2009 09 plate upwards most likely from a franchised dealer as I like the thought of having a 12 month warranty. In regards to the comments on diesels, are you referring to earlier models ? And is there a particular thread I should look at?

Have looked online at Arnold Clark and also at Struans (my local dealer) but the best prices seem to be in Edinburgh - Approx £12995 for a D4D XTR with 21k on the clock, the SR180 is also the same price but has 40k on the clock, which although not particularly high, it would mean it would be at about 65k when we went to change again in 2 years, but the idea of leather and the higher power means its more attractive as its in par with the A3 we already have.

Will need to check the classified section for the link to the one for sale privately, or can you post a link ?

Many Thanks

Chris.

[Ovv]

Welcome Chris to the forum.

The first thing to say is, that if you are not buying new, or nearly new, then you MUST look at the comments on the forum, regarding diesel cars. Having said that, our man Charliefarlie, has a lovely 180 for sale, all sorted and immaculate, and he is in Scotland!

Anyway best of luck, and I certainly think you will enjoy the car when you eventually get one, and this forum is a mine of valuable information and help.

Ainsley

Hi Ainsley,

Thanks for the reply. Im intending on buying nearly new, well 2009 09 plate upwards most likely from a franchised dealer as I like the thought of having a 12 month warranty. In regards to the comments on diesels, are you referring to earlier models ? And is there a particular thread I should look at?

Have looked online at Arnold Clark and also at Struans (my local dealer) but the best prices seem to be in Edinburgh - Approx £12995 for a D4D XTR with 21k on the clock,(Stuans want £14995 with 40k) the SR180 is also in Edinburgh at the same price but has 40k on the clock, which although not particularly high, it would mean it would be at about 65k when we went to change again in 2 years, but the idea of leather and the higher power means its more attractive as its in par with the A3 we already have.

Will need to check the classified section for the link to the one for sale privately, or can you post a link ?

Many Thanks

Chris.

[DjRav]

Some 06-08 Diesels had engine issues. But if you're looking 09 you shouldn't be concerned. (saying that I have a 57 plate and am not concerned!!)

The more powerful models will suffer on economy (obviously) so it depends what you want and what you're used to. My XTR has all the power I need personally and I always get between 40 to 45 mpg depending on seasons etc.

Btw I've got full leather (as said- XTR) and sunroof but no spare wheel. But models vary greatly. Again depends on your priorities.

They're like a tardis inside and you might be surprised. My main reasons for picking this car were economy, reliability and room for my 3 dogs!

PS Mines black with blacked out rear windows and looks a bit mean!

Dave

[anchorman]

You should speak to Big Kev. He is currently blocking the sun off a very large area of ground in Canada but he does look in for his RAV fix.

He has a mint SR180 2009 model which has a warranty (I think) and is for sale. There is no cleaner SR for sale anywhere so it is worth a look.

[flyboyprowler]

It is purely my opinion, but I feel that a diesel engined car of any make, only makes sense in higher mileage situations, ie 13000+ p.a.. A recent survey by Which showed that a lot of petrol engined cars were cheaper to run than diesel.

Reference the RAV. The later diesels seemed to be ok, but DJ's comments are valid on costs. The earlier diesels COULD have problems, but as you are looking at later models, that should not be a problem.

Have a look at equivalent petrol cars, an if you are only keeping the car for a couple of years, then it could make financial sense.

I have a 2003 and a 2007 petrol cars, and get 32mpg from the later car, and the newer ones are even better, and cheaper than a diesel to buy and service!

Whatever you choose, the car is definitely worth the hype. Although a little long in the tooth now, it does what it says on the box.

All the best

Ainsley

[CharlieFarlie]

Take a look here....

http://www.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=132178&st=0&p=1175067entry1175067

All cars right up to 2009 are in the category where engines can suffer. Having said that the 2006/7 seem most prone.

I firmly believe the 180 BHP engine is even MORE prone than the 137s. Perhaps getting 180 BHP from a 2.2 Diesel is not something Toyota managed very well..

Benefits of buying a 2009 is that the warranty will be longer as the early cars are around one Year away from expiring so are an unacceptable risk IMHO.

Back to the 180 as a car.....

Brilliant ! Many say the 150 is enough but after driving a 180 You would never look back.. Add a Lindop tuning box ( Circa £400) and you have very decent performance and 42 MPG on the Motorway...

Kevs car is immaculate and likely several times better than one You will find on a dealer forecourt.

[Ovv]

He has a mint SR180 2009 model which has a warranty (I think) and is for sale. There is no cleaner SR for sale anywhere so it is worth a look.

Will do, is there a for sale thread on here ?

Take a look here....

http://www.toyotaown...7

Brilliant ! Many say the 150 is enough but after driving a 180 You would never look back.. Add a Lindop tuning box ( Circa £400) and you have very decent performance and 42 MPG on the Motorway...

Cool, thanks for the link - will have a proper read through at lunch time. Is the Lindop tuning box suitable for both the XTR & SR model ?

Also - is that your RAV4 on Pistonheads - blue which has just been detailed ? If it is, it looks very nice.

It is purely my opinion, but I feel that a diesel engined car of any make, only makes sense in higher mileage situations, ie 13000+ p.a.. A recent survey by Which showed that a lot of petrol engined cars were cheaper to run than diesel.

Have a look at equivalent petrol cars, an if you are only keeping the car for a couple of years, then it could make financial sense.

Ainsley

The thought of returning to a petrol has crossed my mind, last few cars have been diesel - however I already have a V power munching Subaru and I feel the diesel offsets that, we quite often go away for longer runs at the weekend. Plus a lot of the petrol powered models of other manufacturers like Honda etc, want £400+ for road tax - which I refuse to pay.

I think my wife is swaying more towards a CRV as there seems more space, but as its out of price range the RAV seems a good alternative, either that or I buy a MK6 GT Golf, which really isn't any bigger than the current Audi.

[CharlieFarlie]

He has a mint SR180 2009 model which has a warranty (I think) and is for sale. There is no cleaner SR for sale anywhere so it is worth a look.

Will do, is there a for sale thread on here ?

Take a look here....

http://www.toyotaown...7

Brilliant ! Many say the 150 is enough but after driving a 180 You would never look back.. Add a Lindop tuning box ( Circa £400) and you have very decent performance and 42 MPG on the Motorway...

Cool, thanks for the link - will have a proper read through at lunch time. Is the Lindop tuning box suitable for both the XTR & SR model ?

Also - is that your RAV4 on Pistonheads - blue which has just been detailed ? If it is, it looks very nice.

It is purely my opinion, but I feel that a diesel engined car of any make, only makes sense in higher mileage situations, ie 13000+ p.a.. A recent survey by Which showed that a lot of petrol engined cars were cheaper to run than diesel.

Have a look at equivalent petrol cars, an if you are only keeping the car for a couple of years, then it could make financial sense.

Ainsley

The thought of returning to a petrol has crossed my mind, last few cars have been diesel - however I already have a V power munching Subaru and I feel the diesel offsets that, we quite often go away for longer runs at the weekend. Plus a lot of the petrol powered models of other manufacturers like Honda etc, want £400+ for road tax - which I refuse to pay.

I think my wife is swaying more towards a CRV as there seems more space, but as its out of price range the RAV seems a good alternative, either that or I buy a MK6 GT Golf, which really isn't any bigger than the current Audi.

Lindop box is engine output specific. IE the one for a T180 is not suitable for a 137 or 150 engine output.

Yes that is My car on PH... I do the detailing Myself.

Even though the car is in absolutely immaculate condition and has had the engine done along with a new set of injectors. A new DPNR, and a new clutch hand on heart I cannot recommend the purchase of any 2.2 Diesel Toyota to anyone............................................

Of course if an enquiry ( Ive had 2 ) comes via PH then I will have to fail to mention this .....

[Ovv]

You wouldn't recommend it ??? Is this due to the experience with the engine ?

I thought Toyota's were quite reliable.

[CharlieFarlie]

You wouldn't recommend it ??? Is this due to the experience with the engine ?

I thought Toyota's were quite reliable.

On reliability so did I !! But this car has been a headache from around 4 months after I got it.....

No I would not recommend one.. How can I after all the problems with my car.. I'm not that hypocritical !

[Ovv]

Cheers for the honesty, I will certainly take into consideration such problems when looking around.

[anchorman]

He is after a 2009 model which has not had one recorded incident of failure. You make the point that recommendations should be balanced and take account of the risk and yet you come out with such unfounded comments.

Its just sour grapes I'm afraid.

[DjRav]

You wouldn't recommend it ??? Is this due to the experience with the engine ?

I thought Toyota's were quite reliable.

I'd say Charlies "experience" is the worst case extreme. Some (like me) have had no issues. Some have had issues and have been resolved way above their expectations from Toyota.

If you buy an 09 you will be safe on two counts. Firstly because they're not effected! Second, even if they were you'd have loads of time to discover the issue (most effected engines use oil, mine uses none!)

Dave

[anchorman]

You wouldn't recommend it ??? Is this due to the experience with the engine ?

I thought Toyota's were quite reliable.

I'd say Charlies "experience" is the worst case extreme. Some (like me) have had no issues. Some have had issues and have been resolved way above their expectations from Toyota.

If you buy an 09 you will be safe on two counts. Firstly because they're not effected! Second, even if they were you'd have loads of time to discover the issue (most effected engines use oil, mine uses none!)

Dave

Hear hear. Common sense at last.

[CharlieFarlie]

You wouldn't recommend it ??? Is this due to the experience with the engine ?

I thought Toyota's were quite reliable.

I'd say Charlies "experience" is the worst case extreme. Some (like me) have had no issues. Some have had issues and have been resolved way above their expectations from Toyota.

If you buy an 09 you will be safe on two counts. Firstly because they're not effected! Second, even if they were you'd have loads of time to discover the issue (most effected engines use oil, mine uses none!)

Dave

Hear hear. Common sense at last.

Just because We don't agree it does not mean either of us are wrong................

Common sense ?? Look at the figures on the other thread ?

How many Members have had to have their engines replaced V those who have not ?????

[CharlieFarlie]

He is after a 2009 model which has not had one recorded incident of failure. You make the point that recommendations should be balanced and take account of the risk and yet you come out with such unfounded comments.

Its just sour grapes I'm afraid.

No its not Don and if You are resorting to making personal remarks then it shows you are running out of reasoned argument.....

I have a Friend whose Son has had his engine changed in a 2009 SR 180....

Bluemonsters car was a 2008.....

But lets stick to the facts ??

17 Owners just here on this forum that own Rav4 2.2 diesels have had replacements......

5 Have not...

Of course the numbers will change but the numbers tell the true story and that cannot be denied...

Sour grapes... Come on Don You can do better than that ..

[Ovv]

Obviously Charlie has had issues which from the sounds of them, have been extensive. As with any brand of car, there is always issues - its nice to know what they are and the potential problems that lead to these failures.

I will be buying from a dealer in order to get the 12 month warranty if I do go down the Toyota route, at the end of the day the prices are better there than elsewhere and the warranty obviously makes more sense.

[shcm]

But lets stick to the facts ??

17 Owners just here on this forum that own Rav4 2.2 diesels have had replacements......

5 Have not...

OK,

Forum polls are fine as a bit of fun, but if you think those figures are meaningful, well, I believe a statistician would probably tell you, that you are urinating in the breeze.

My stats theory is a bit rusty, but hopefully I’ve got the following correct. If, for a moment we assume, as above, 80% out of all engines have a problem i.e.80% of all owners, if you could ask them, would answer "yes". Roughly what you've got above.

Assume a total population of 20000 (That's stats speak for how many RAVs built. Actually 2000, 20000, 200000 - for those size of populations, it makes very little difference on the results the stats formulae spit out).

Out of that population, you have sampled (I'll come back to "sampling" in a minute) 22 people.

If you plug all those numbers in, stats says you have a 43% confidence level of being right and the 8 in 10 (80 in 100 or 80%) engines having a problem could be anywhere from 63% to 97%.

BUT, a confidence level of 43% is absolute crap. You may as well toss a coin.

To get a confidence level of 95% you would need responses from 243 owners.

Back to sampling. As others have pointed out, the sample you have is almost certainly skewed because of the nature of inet forums. You'd probably have to flag down passing RAV drivers to get anywhere near doing it properly.

As it stands, that makes you figures even more meaningless.

If you didn't understand any of that, perhaps go read a stats book, but don't pretend these figures are anything like meaningful yet.

This is one reason why this whole saga makes wet paint watching a thrill a minute as far as I am concerned and why normally I stay right out of this debate.

[Manxrav]

I do believe Ovv is level-headed enough to realise NOT to buy an earlier than 2009 Rav, If he,s read all the threads on Rav 4 engine problems and I am sure he will have attempted to, I,m sure he will have made his mind up on which year and model to go for.

I find it such a shame, that on one of the best Forums on the inet that we as mere mortals have to resort to constant bickering over this issue. Great friendships are made on these sites, albiet we probably never meet each other in person. So sorry if I have ranted on a bit but I very rarely get emmotive on forums, but all the bickering is not making me a happy person.

There I,ve said my bit!!!!!!

Clare

[shcm]

Agreed Clare and you are entitled to your rant, as is everybody.

Thing is, I just don't see where any of this is going. Surely it's run its course?

1. I would be very surprised if there were ever a recall. The way the industry works, the argument would be it is not safety related (No, sorry, but loss of engine power is a way down the list).

2. Toyota have a programme in place to address the problem, where many would have washed their hands. As I see it they've done all they can be reasonably expected to do to provide a product of "merchantable quality".

3. If anybody asks about this, there is google and we have a pinned thread that goes into it in length. Whether and what they purchase is ultimately their decision.

4. From the outside, we are never going to have enough data to reach any meaningful conclusions.

I'm really not sure what else can be expected? Perhaps a free troupe of 100 naked parachuting raving nymphomaniacs with every engine swap??

[CharlieFarlie]

But lets stick to the facts ??

17 Owners just here on this forum that own Rav4 2.2 diesels have had replacements......

5 Have not...

OK,

Forum polls are fine as a bit of fun, but if you think those figures are meaningful, well, I believe a statistician would probably tell you, that you are urinating in the breeze.

My stats theory is a bit rusty, but hopefully I’ve got the following correct. If, for a moment we assume, as above, 80% out of all engines have a problem i.e.80% of all owners, if you could ask them, would answer "yes". Roughly what you've got above.

Assume a total population of 20000 (That's stats speak for how many RAVs built. Actually 2000, 20000, 200000 - for those size of populations, it makes very little difference on the results the stats formulae spit out).

Out of that population, you have sampled (I'll come back to "sampling" in a minute) 22 people.

If you plug all those numbers in, stats says you have a 43% confidence level of being right and the 8 in 10 (80 in 100 or 80%) engines having a problem could be anywhere from 63% to 97%.

BUT, a confidence level of 43% is absolute crap. You may as well toss a coin.

To get a confidence level of 95% you would need responses from 243 owners.

Back to sampling. As others have pointed out, the sample you have is almost certainly skewed because of the nature of inet forums. You'd probably have to flag down passing RAV drivers to get anywhere near doing it properly.

As it stands, that makes you figures even more meaningless.

If you didn't understand any of that, perhaps go read a stats book, but don't pretend these figures are anything like meaningful yet.

This is one reason why this whole saga makes wet paint watching a thrill a minute as far as I am concerned and why normally I stay right out of this debate.

That is one hell of a way in saying you disagree with the numbers ?? If this thread is so boring then why read and take the time to post ??

Who else can I ask and where else as standing flagging down Rav drivers could prove difficult ??

I simply asked a question.. Thats all. If You don't like the question or the answers the why participate ?

As for ****** in the wind well half the posts on most forums fall into that one.. 90% drivel...

But just because I ask a question and You don't like the answer does not mean its not a valid question if only to the Members who have participated in the thread..

I had You down as a more inelegant Fella than that Andy !

Clare.. We are not bikkering .. Its an internet forum and We cannot and will not agree all the time it is simply never going to happen.. But so long as everyone has a little respect for everyone else then why should friendships be in danger ?

If no one posts and topics are boring or contain no facts figures or information the n the forum goes quiet ?? How many time do We hear nothing ??

Dont get Me wrong I fully understand why these topics have made me unpopular of late :( But trust Me I will get over it :P .......

The way I see it if a topic is so boring that watching the fence dry is better then sod off up the garden. If on the other hand a debate is to be had the a forum will thrive......

[Manxrav]

I take your point Charlie, it is true Forums are for debate and I probably over reacted at the time. I just did not want any bad feeling between yourself and Don, as I have a great respect for both of you. Put it down to a "girly" moment!!!!

Regards Clare

[CharlieFarlie]

I take your point Charlie, it is true Forums are for debate and I probably over reacted at the time. I just did not want any bad feeling between yourself and Don, as I have a great respect for both of you. Put it down to a "girly" moment!!!!

Regards Clare

Clare You know I have no problems with anything anyone says to me Im far to thick to take offence !!