The Usual Newb Questions.

[Dabooka]

Maybe as a new owner of an affected vehicle I can chip in.

Firstly when decideding what cars to consider, when we stumbled across the RAV4 I deliberately googled the owners club; experience has taught me what a useful source of info they are for any car.

Right, having seen the threads on these very boards, and reading the car-by-car guides on Honest John, it was clear that the 2.2 diesel had a helluva problem. The upshot is that once we had decided that the RAV was the right car for us we needed to know about the engine issue being resolved and we wanted to buy via a main dealer for the "full fat" warranty, despite severly limiting our choice or spec as the selection was limited.

Now any second hand car purchase is caveat emptor , and I pity anyone who picks an at risk motor without knowing of the issues, but in this day and age it is easier than ever to find out about the pros and cons on anything from cars to toasters, and user forums such as this play a key role in informing people. Once the concerns are laid out it''s then over to them to make an informed decision.

I personally feel Charlie is bang on the button, with two provisos, that there is clearly a large majority of car owners who suffer from this issue and prospective owners need to be informed of this within this forum. However the provisos are;

a) the nature of online forums mean that many only come looking for them when there's a problem, and even then fewer bother to register and comment. You can't discounyt the x% that tootle along for ever and a day with no problem.

B) Toyota do need to be given some credit for their handling of this. Before I get shot down for this comment, and Charlie I'm not clouding the issue by referring to other marques, Ford, VW, Mercs, Land Rover and BMW all have huge engine issues and don't offer half of the support Toyota have. That's the difference here. Some big names in the world of supposed quality cars, are utterly terrible and downright disgraceful once the warranty is up.

Have we made a mistake or not, only time will tell, but for now we have a 3/4 engine that's about 14 month old and a 2yr Toyota GB warranty. I think "measured risk" is the best way to describe our decision!

Cheers, and peace be with us all.

[anchorman]

Clare

It had to happen at some time. I've seen it as a bit of harmless fun both debating and to some extent tormenting. However, when we have Big Kev who has an immaculate 2009 SR180 that has never been a minute's trouble and uses no oil is up for sale so he can prepare for a 2013 model (as he is so satisfied with his RAV) then another member convices a potential buyer that he is at risk by buying it.................

Frankly it stinks and I am very dissappointed. Conveniently on the same day as I make the statement that 2009s aren't affected, a new poster and personal friend of Charlie's comes on with his first post to say that his 2009 SR failed and he knows of 2 others, you will never ever convince me that he was not put up to it.

It is an appauling state of affairs and I don't know what is driving it.

I have to consider my position on this forum as a moderator and will have to withdraw from this and any associated subject. I will ask another moderator to mediate if I suspect that furure posts have a hidden agenda.

[CharlieFarlie]

Clare

It had to happen at some time. I've seen it as a bit of harmless fun both debating and to some extent tormenting. However, when we have Big Kev who has an immaculate 2009 SR180 that has never been a minute's trouble and uses no oil is up for sale so he can prepare for a 2013 model (as he is so satisfied with his RAV) then another member convices a potential buyer that he is at risk by buying it.................

Frankly it stinks and I am very dissappointed. Conveniently on the same day as I make the statement that 2009s aren't affected, a new poster and personal friend of Charlie's comes on with his first post to say that his 2009 SR failed and he knows of 2 others, you will never ever convince me that he was not put up to it.

It is an appauling state of affairs and I don't know what is driving it.

I have to consider my position on this forum as a moderator and will have to withdraw from this and any associated subject. I will ask another moderator to mediate if I suspect that furure posts have a hidden agenda.

I am equally dissapointed that You can accuse Me of the above without having the common courtesy to PM or ring Me ?? You have My number ??

I am totally disgusted at what You have said both on this thread and the other one and it is simply because You do not agree with the figures ......

This is now getting personal....... You have My number .....

[CharlieFarlie]

Don something You should consider is that I sent a PM to the OP off this post and in that post I informed Him that Kevin s car is likely the BEST 2009 SR available today.. I also reccomended that if He was going to buy a 2009 SR that Kevs car should be viewed as compared to virtually all dealer cars it would be chalk and cheese.

I also said that My car while sorted should still be considered a risk !!

How much more honest do You want Me to be.

You have jumped the gun and called My honesty and integrity into question and that is !Removed! simply not right....

This ridiculous situation could easily have been avoided if You had contacted Me but You just jumped in making assumptions...

What I am really angry about it that You should indicate Me condemning Kevs car without giving it a second thought.. That is just unforgivable.

I genuinely hope The OP of this thread will confirm the above.

I will call You this evening as per Your text....

Charlie.

[benxt5]

I do believe Ovv is level-headed enough to realise NOT to buy an earlier than 2009 Rav, If he,s read all the threads...

Why would you not be level headed if you buy a pre 2009?

I knew of these issues before I bought mine but I also knew about the 7 year warranty.

The other thread only goes to strengthen the position of these cars. Yes, there is a potential problem, but equally there is a solution in place. What other 4, 5, or 6 yr old car could you buy with a 7 year warranty and the potential of a brand new engine should it begin to drink oil?!?

My 56 plate xt5, allegedly high risk does not seem to have any problem in my 2 years of ownership and even if it did, it is within the warranty until November 2013!!!

This issue is not a safety issue but a design fault that can greatly reduce the life of the engines. As such, Toyota have put in place a system to address this and give owners at least 7 years peace of mind. This evidenced and supported by all the FREE replacements identified in the other threads.

[Ovv]

Oh my... what have I started.

Charlie did PM me to tell me all about the troubles he has had, and this was after I had asked him about his car after seeing it on PH. Although I am new to the forum, I respect his honesty in telling me all about his car and its associated problems, alot of people could have easily said - "yes its my car on PH, come have a look at it if your interested" - instead he was upfront and gave me an opinion - whether good or bad, I guess thats for other users who know him better than I do to decide whether its a fair opinion.

Charlie also did PM regarding the SR180 that Big Kev owns and he had the following to say:

"Kevis car is stunning.. Bodily its not quite perfect but its as close to perfect as You will get !!

It is a genuine car that has the Lindop kit fitted and is very well looked after.. I think it may be a wee bit expensive though"

If I hadn't signed up to the forum, then I wouldn't have known of the engine problems in the earlier models - now that I know there could be a problem I have made a informed decision that if I buy it will be from a dealer in order to get the warranty and it will be a 09 2009 plate onwards.

I have read through the various post about the problems, but what car doesn't have a problem which is always a hot topic of debate. For example - Im a Subaru fan and on my 3rd one, my previous was a 2.5 Hawkeye model, notorious for drinking oil and knocking suspension, after discovering this information I made sure I bought one with plenty of service history and replaced the shocks with coilovers to prevent this failure and checked the oil weekly.

Recently I bought a P1, the topic of debate on these are the engines, common to fail at around the 50k mark - some say they dont need rebuilt and wont fail with many cars doing 80k plus, whilst others said buying a car without a rebuild was asking for trouble, I used the advise from both sides of this argument to help me make my decision - in this case I decided to buy a car with a rebuild - as there is no warranty on buying privately.

Without forums and peoples opinions, I would have been none the wiser to any of the problems.

Anyways - I hope I haven't kicked up a hornets nest, I will sticking around on the forum if I do purchase one, which is looking quite likely given my budget I have. Charlie says he wouldn't have another, I could say the same about the SEAT I previously owned which was also a problem car.

Heading to Edinburgh on the weekend to have a look at the SR180 and the normal D4D XTR for a comparison.

And on a lighter note - is retro fitting sat nav possible, if so wheres the best place to buy the unit from and how easy is it to fit ??

Chris.

[CharlieFarlie]

Right a final statement from Me on both this topic and the Forum...

I spoke to Don this evening on the phone... We are never going to agree on this engine issue. That make neither of Us wrong of course.

Don feels that I am obsessed and against the Rav 2.2 and I feel that Don is obsessed and Pro 2.2.

The truth is I would guess is that neither of Us are correct...

What is clear is that Don is correct in that it is mostly the early cars that have problems and that the later into the production runs the less likely issues are to arise...

My problem here is that reputations ( Mine) have been tarnished and called into question That I feel very sad about...

But let Me close with an absolute assurance that I DID NOT ! Prompt Mark into stirring up a hornets nest.. Coincidence has proved to be real pain in the **** ...

Take care all best wishes..

Charlie.

[dervdave]

Clare

It had to happen at some time. I've seen it as a bit of harmless fun both debating and to some extent tormenting. However, when we have Big Kev who has an immaculate 2009 SR180 that has never been a minute's trouble and uses no oil is up for sale so he can prepare for a 2013 model (as he is so satisfied with his RAV) then another member convices a potential buyer that he is at risk by buying it.................

Frankly it stinks and I am very dissappointed. Conveniently on the same day as I make the statement that 2009s aren't affected, a new poster and personal friend of Charlie's comes on with his first post to say that his 2009 SR failed and he knows of 2 others, you will never ever convince me that he was not put up to it.

It is an appauling state of affairs and I don't know what is driving it.

I have to consider my position on this forum as a moderator and will have to withdraw from this and any associated subject. I will ask another moderator to mediate if I suspect that furure posts have a hidden agenda.

Sorry Don but that is one hell of an accusation, its hard to believe any normal person would to go such lengths to prove a point.