2Ad Engine Replacement Figures.. Help Please From All 2.2 Diesel Owner

[NicTaylor]

2007 Rav4 2.2L D-4D VX - Head Gasket replaced and head skimmed Jan 2012 - 108 000km

[kenny7964]

mine is in the dealers now for an engine, 2007 XTR 49,000 miles full history, head gasket was done before at 41500 miles.

[RCT Bart 1979]

2006 , 83.000km ( 51573 mls ) , no rebuild yet , only a inlet manifold cleaning under warranty ( after a hi turbo pressure code )

[Big Kev]

2006 , 83.000km ( 51573 mls ) , no rebuild yet , only a inlet manifold cleaning under warranty ( after a hi turbo pressure code )

Oakeydoakey Guys 'n' Gals......nuffsy nuff......where in the Game of Nod is this thread going, really.....?

Now we have a manifold cleaned (no disrespect meant whatsoever...). I had extra soundproofing put on rear floor of my Rav. Hopefully this off topic enough for Red to do the honourable thingy.

Big Kev.

[DjRav]

2006 , 83.000km ( 51573 mls ) , no rebuild yet , only a inlet manifold cleaning under warranty ( after a hi turbo pressure code )

Oakeydoakey Guys 'n' Gals......nuffsy nuff......where in the Game of Nod is this thread going, really.....?

Now we have a manifold cleaned (no disrespect meant whatsoever...). I had extra soundproofing put on rear floor of my Rav. Hopefully this off topic enough for Red to do the honourable thingy.

Big Kev.

In defence, I think he was reporting that he HADN'T had an engine changed, so ON thread. But I do agree. Nuffs e snuff.

Big Respect

Dave

[stevedale5]

Hi

I ve got a 2008 D4D 2.2 engine replaced at 62,000 miles last month with full Mr T service history I now use bp ulitmate.

Daughter has a 2006 D4D 2.2 engine has had no problems and as a current mileage of 75,000 miles has independant full service history is using supermarket fuel but it has been driven hard.

Regards Stevedale5

Charlie or Don can you put these on the poll please.

[anchorman]

I think the poll is defunct Steve. It never had a real purpose as we knew what the results were going to show.

[CharlieFarlie]

Why is this thread defunct ? Could it be because the answers do not fit in with your ideals ?

And no this post is not intended to start another argument....

This forum surely is to discuss the Rav4. Its good points of which there are many and its bad ones.

People come onto forums to gain information on cars . Sometimes before buying them sometimes after..

The question of how many cars have been affected has been asked god knows how many times. This thread illustrates the percentage of the membership of this forum only but even though it has to be recognised that many only come to a forum when problems occur its till a representative figure and the thread is still getting posts and collating information...

[acetip]

Although i do not own a RAV4 or a Toyota diesel come to that, i do like reading this forum there is always interesting postings here.

If they go off topic a little thats ok by me,i dont have an axe to grind. but can understand if someones pride an joy has the dreaded oil consumption/head gasket problem.which can be soul destroying.

Nic taylor mentioned on an earlier post he had the head skimmed on his engine. I understood that this was not a possible cure for the gasket problem,or have i misunderstood.

As to the number of engines effected the only true fiqure only Toyota wil know and i cant see them publishing them.

There many more RAV4 owners out there who dont use the these forums indeed many will not know it exists even so what percentage of them have had problems being dicussed here.

[anchorman]

As to the number of engines effected the only true fiqure only Toyota wil know and i cant see them publishing them.

Exactly.

[CWOR]

CharlieFarlie I had a replacement engine in August 2011. I've had some trouble since.

[Feral Rabbit]

I've just bought a T180 56 plate. Is there something I should know/look out for?

Beginning to be a bit paranoid regarding diesel Toyotas at present, what with dmf's and now engines!

Is there a topic regarding engines? I have tried in the search but there seems to be hundreds of threads.

Regards

Martin.

[Davrav]

This:

http://www.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=132178#entry1175067

sums it all up pretty well Martin.

[anchorman]

CharlieFarlie I had a replacement engine in August 2011. I've had some trouble since.

Stay off the albran for a couple of days.

[CWOR]

I meant problems with the engine, resulting in a £2000 bill to change the injectors. I don't find that very funny. On reading CharlieFarlie's synopsis I am wondering why the injectors were not replaced as part of the 3/4 engine change on my 2006 2AD engine, given earlier problems with the EGR valve. And why this further repair won't be done as part of the 7-year 180km warranty.

[Feral Rabbit]

Sense of humour bypass there!

[anchorman]

I meant problems with the engine, resulting in a £2000 bill to change the injectors. I don't find that very funny. On reading CharlieFarlie's synopsis I am wondering why the injectors were not replaced as part of the 3/4 engine change on my 2006 2AD engine, given earlier problems with the EGR valve. And why this further repair won't be done as part of the 7-year 180km warranty.

Well if you come out with an open ended meaningless statement what do you expect us to conclude. Now you have explained you might get some more sensible comment.

If the faulty injectors could be associated with the engine rebuild you might have qualified for some. It would be helpful to know why they were changed. Did you ask them or do you know?

[CWOR]

I don't know if the injectors were replaced along with the engine (August 2011). On Monday I will ask the dealer that did it and which now has my car. My point is based on my view that they did not replace them, but should have. But until I know either way, it's conjecture.The EGR valve was replaced about 2 years ago. Apart from the EGR, which on anecdotal evidence affects many makes of car, I had had no problems until the engine replacement.

CharlieFarlie's synopsis refers to Injector no.5? I'm sorry but I am not technical: does the number/position have any significance? What if it is one of the other injectors that has gone out tolerance?

[Big Kev]

Sounds like you have had one of those well reported dealers who tried to do a FIX for the engine problem at a time when he had a clear edict as to how to properly fix the problem, namely by replacing your bloody engine, and that would have meant injectors also too forbye.

I think you have been royally humped, and should not have to foot such a woeful bill to sort out. Time to dig yer heels in (politefully.....) and ask questions of Toyota G.B. as to your dealer's course of action.

Besta Luck,

Big Kev

[dervdave]

CharlieFarlie's synopsis refers to Injector no.5? I'm sorry but I am not technical: does the number/position have any significance?

No 5 is used during the DPF process.

[Mistermena]

I agree with me mate Kev here on this one! A letter to Toyota UK should be on the cards. Good luck with it and tell us what they have to say about said dealer...

[anchorman]

It depends why the injectors are playing up. If it can be proved that they are faulty as a result of the pre-engine carbon you might have a case. You still haven't said what the problem is - only that it needs new injectors. Injectors are tested at the time of engine change and refitted if within spec.

Tell us the whole story and why you think the injectors are related to the engine swap.

If I were in the warranty claims dept. I would be sitting on it too. You are not automatically entitled to new parts and it isn't reasonable to expect it.

[CWOR]

The whole story:

My (wife's) car is a Verso with a 2.2 Diesel engine. I presume it is the 2AD since the engine was changed in August 2011. The car's mileage now is ~53k, it was registered in November 06. I bought it in July 2008 (at 23k miles) from a Cheshire Toyota dealer, who had maintained it up to that point. Shortly after, I switched maintenance from them to a much nearer Toyota dealer with whom I was pretty happy until this year. Indeed, they helped me gain a small goodwill payment from Toyota GB when they replaced the EGR valve 2 - 3 years ago (I don't know if this is significant, I can find out the exact date). The car has always been maintained by a Toyota dealer, in accordance with service schedules.

When we took it for its annual service in August 2011 a trio of warning lights had been ON for a couple of weeks: they being a) Engine-shaped one B) TRC one and c) The other one, the name of which escapes but is referred to on this forum (can't find it now) as being one of this 'trio'. When raising this, our dealer told us that these 3 can/do light up as a 'set'.

The dealer told us that they would need the car for a few days to replace the engine. It was rather somewhat 'hush-hush' (sorry, but it was, no reason was given for it, only an emphasis that it was for free). I cannot recall if this was after the service (i.e. after a diagnostic) or before. When we collected the car the invoice made no mention of an engine change - only "warranty work". The lights were now out, but I can't recall if this was after the Service or only after the engine change (done about 2 weeks apart). A few months later my wife's Uncle called me to say that he, too, had had and engine change and he told me to get a letter from the Dealer quoting the old and new engine numbers, for me to inform the DVLA. When asked, the dealer did this for me and also confirmed that the new engine came with a 1-year warranty. Naturally I was quite happy at this point - having a new (short) engine.

.

In mid-July this year we heard, on a couple of occasions, a screeching noise from the engine. Unfortunately this was just a few days before we set off on holiday. When I heard it, to my un-technical ears, it sounded like a belt slipping. It was intermittent but occurred at low revs (~2,000 rpm) under medium acceleration. It was too late to book it into any Toyota dealer (wife works - she had actually booked it into a Stockport Toyota dealer the week before but then simply forgot to go... :<( ) so we took it to a local independent garage, where our cars are MoT'd to see if they could diagnose it: they could not replicate the noise or find any fault.

En-route to Devon (Saturday 26th July) the car was fine cruising at Motorway speeds but had 2 problems otherwise: a) when stationary (M4/M5 interchange) - the cabin filled with Diesel fumes and B) when accelerating from low speeds (unavoidable - overtaking a caravan) the same screeching noise and a loss of power (which I now know to be "limp mode"). Upon arrival at our destination we did not drive the car until taking it 8 miles to Roundswell Toyota, Barnstaple on Monday 30th. On a test drive, the screeching noise did not recur. However they fixed the smell and the car no longer resorted to "limp mode". Their invoice states "EGR inlet behind turbo had come loose". I think a chap may have said "due possibly to not being fixed properly during the engine replacement.". I had told them about the engine change - pleased that this problem had arisen within 12 months of that. The man I dealt with also diagnosed "a misfire - suspect No.1 injector" (as stated on invoice).

The car was fine for three weeks after that until three weeks ago, when the same trio of warning lights returned and the car again went into "limp mode". So we took it to our local dealer. I told them about the events in Devon and left them a copy of my Roundswell Toyota invoice The dealer kept the car for a day and told us that they had fixed it by cleaning the EGR valve. The lights went out. Within 2 days, the lights were back on and and it was back into "limp mode". so we returned to our dealer and, this time, they diagnosed the No.1 injector as being "out of spec".

They contacted Toyota Customer Relations and told us that the that injectors being out-of-tolerance is not a warranty item and cannot be replaced as such. Also they would not make a goodwill payment because the replacement parts were not Toyota (but still 'legitimate' - Denso?). The equivalent Toyota parts would be so expensive, apparently, that, even after a goodwill payment, they would still be more expensive than the non-Toyota parts.

To answer Anchorman's question, I don't know WHY the injectors are playing up. Today I asked the Dealer exactly what did they do. I hope to find out on Monday if the injectors were replaced with the engine in August 2011 or "tested and refitted if within spec".

I don't know how long-standing the injector problem is. We service the car only annually and the engine change was advised /carried out very shortly after the August 2011 service. Although the 3 warning lights did appear a couple of weeks before that service, there had been no physical manifestation of a problem (noise, "limp mode") before the engine change.

Anchorman - I know that I am not automatically entitled to new parts. I also know that bad luck exists. The car does only ~7,000/year which is sub-optimal for the size of engine. My wife's daily commute is about 10 miles each way, part B-road, part Motorway.

What I find frustrating is that apparently there wasn't a problem before the engine replacement (to be fair, nor for 11 months after, either). I'm afraid that I think the engine replacement wasn't carried out to spec. Am I talking through my wallet? Well it is a galling that a part, that can clearly go wrong, costs £2k to replace. I actually told Toyota Customer Relations that I would (grudgingly) pay half this amount. If this occurs after the standard (5-year) warranty, inevitably the car is only worth ~£5k at this point. Apparently, injectors must now be replaced as a set, rather than individually, which used to be the case. And finally, of course, a prime reason for buying Toyota was/is reliability.

[Davrav]

A sorry tale by all accounts.

One thing I can't figure out from your account is what you are saying about the injectors - are you saying the injectors currently fitted to the engine are not Toyota or the ones that the dealer wants to fit are non-Toyota?

If the former, when were non-genuine parts fitted if the car has always been maintained by a Toyota dealer and, if the latter, what is a Toyota dealer doing suggesting the fitting of non-genuine parts?

Or................have you had the injectors replaced by a third party?

Either way, I was under the impression that, if the injectors were not actually damaged, they would be sent to a specialist for re-calibration.

Confused of Gloucestershire

[anchorman]

Now things are much clearer to me. Like Dave says, there are still some inconstencies about why they think Denso injectors are not OE (they are) and why they were fitted without Toyota's blessing (if they were) because if not, somebody fitted 2k worth of injectors at their own expense.

Now I understand this a bit better I might be able to help you sort this mess out if you want me to. If so just pm me with your vehicle and contact details.