The Different Flywheel Models ?

[Oktafish]

Hi All,

A newbie question here and it looks like I might be up for a replacement of the clutch / flywheel duo. Haven`t decided yet as to whether to go for the Dual Mass or Solid option. I`m fairly new to Toyota and it`s issues with the transmission.

Thing is when I looked around for a replacement it seems there are many available, however my model never seems to be listed.

I own the 2003 Rav4 2.2 d-4-d and the only ones I see listed on online shops as Diesel are 2.0 litre version (mine is 2.2). Question is, are the parts compatible with both ? I guess with a clutch / flywheel this is pretty important. Anyone had experience of this ?

My car is currently immobile until I get the right part, the garage has offered me rather expensive €1000 + vat part and not much in a way of choice, in fact they haven`t even suggested the Solid Flywheel option. They are happy however for me to source my own. Any advice would be much appreciated as we a currently stuck in southern Spain though we can order parts form UK via the internet and there does seem a lot more in a way of choice / price variation in Britain.

[anchorman]

Hi

I can assure you that yours is a 2.0 if it is a 2003 model. A lot of people go for the solid conversion and seem to be quite happy. There are loads of suppliers on eBay here so I guess you should be able to source one locally there.

[Oktafish]

Hi, thanks for your prompt reply. I`m just wondering what the 2.2 stands for in the name as that is how it was advertised before I bought it (maybe misleadingly...well, definitely ). The log book (spanish equivalent) does say 1995cc / 4 cylinder . D 1CD-FTV which I guess does make it 2 litre. Thanks again for confirming. I`m new to Toyotas , diesels and 4x4`s. And this clutch/flywheel issue does seem like a nasty surprise. The car has only done a 110 000 km and is otherwise perfectly fine. Oh well, nothing`s perfect. Thanks again for replying so quickly.

[anchorman]

2.2 in the title suggests that it is the later 2.2 (2200cc) diesel but that is the engine type 2AD-FTV.

I'm sure you will enjoy your new car but you might like to phone the supplier and tell them what you have found out.

[Tech01]

Hi Otkafish,

If your original DMF (dual mass flywheel + unsprung clutchplate) is giving trouble - vibration, jingling, poor clutch action - then you could replace it with another DMF and clutch, or go the SMF (traditional single mass flywheel) route. Replacement DMFs have been known to fail too, and after comparatively low mileages.

ADT-Blueprint offer an SMF replacement kit (4-part: sprung clutch plate, thrust race, clutch cover and solid flywheel), part no. ADT330206. Several of us have used it, and it works fine. Clutch action is very good. Price is around £200.

Any good workshop should be able to source one of these. For details, Google ADT330206.

Chris

[Oktafish]

Most informative, thanks very much. I won`t know until tomorrow what exactly has gone wrong.

It might not be the flywheel itself, might just be the clutch, might be something else but from what I understand that model suffers form the flywheel issue.

Earlier in the day when the clutch failed I did smell rather nasty burned smell coming from the car which leads me to think the clutch has "burned".

I was reversing up a very steep track. Until then the car seemed perfect, no vibrations or anything. The gear change was never quite as smooth as my last car ( Petrol Volvo V70 ) but I put that down to the Rav4 being a diesel (this is my first diesel)

I understand it`s best to change the flywheel too at the same time ( true ? ) hence I`m wondering that even if the flywheel is ok maybe I should change it to a solid type as a preventative measure.

Having said that how safe is the change with regard to the luck of the dampening protection DMF provides ?

This is a rather complicated decision ,-)

[Tech01]

Hi Otkafish,

It's not difficult to produce nasty burning smells from modern everyday clutches: all you have to do is use one "in anger" (i.e. do a bit more work than normal), and, hey-ho, the smell rapidly appears. Reversing uphill is a perfect example of a bit more work than usual!

These friction linings seem to be constructed from a fibreglass cord and resin mix, which just doesn't like high temperatures. Not a patch on old asbestos-based linings, but, of course, infinitely better health-wise. I do wonder, though, does the military/UN/police etc have to put up with these mediocre linings, or is something else available?

Personally, I've always found (on the RAV 4.2) that the original DMF did not offer much in the way of decent clutch control. Even when properly adjusted (which it always was), you had to resort to quite high engine revs to pull away up a steep hill, which, in turn did the clutch lining no good whatsoever! Try normal revs, and as the clutch bit it would do so very suddenly, and the revs would plummet, often with an engine stall. There was just no proper control (feathering) available at all: it made me look as if I couldn't drive! A replacement (genuine Toyota) DMF and clutch had exactly the same poor characteristics.

In comparison, the Blueprint SMF works just like a clutch attached to a good engine should do - all the control and predictability that one expects. It's still possible, of course, to scorch the lining, but such circumstances rarely arise - for example, backing up a 1-in-2 or 1-in-3 corner, to get out of someone's way.

My personal opinion is, if the DMF has failed on a 4.2 of this age, then don't waste time and big money with another one.

The D4D 4.2 is a terrific engine, not a smooth as some, but stunningly dependable. Toyota, like many other manufacturers, went the DMF route for technical and commercial reasons, and have, like the other marques, found out that this is not a perfect concept. By comparison, driving my 1998 Citroen XM 2.5TD is just pure joy: it employs a solid flywheel, pull-action clutch, and is mated to a 4-cyl engine with twin balancer shafts. Most passengers don't believe it's a diesel - and this from a design that dates back to the 1980s.

Chris

[Oktafish]

Chris,

I noticed from your profile info that you are in Malaga province. I have looked online for the ADT330206 but i`m only able to find suppliers in UK, Germany or Poland ( Italy as well but no thanks at these prices ).

Ordering from UK is not a problem as they will ship here for extra £20 but it will take about a week.

Do you know of any suppliers in Spain / Andalucia / Malaga ?

I`m just on the border of Malaga / Granada provinces so am thinking it might be quicker sourced locally.

Then again maybe not ,-)

[Tech01]

Blueprint products are widely available in Spain, from a Portuguese/UK base.

If stuck, a friend of mine runs the following outfit in Nerja, and regularly orders Blueprint products. It's a 4x4 specialist workshop - they fitted my SMF, and know the job well.

The Big Garage

Castillo Alto, 35

Poligono Industrial

Nerja 29780

952 528 961, Mon-Fri 0900-1700 - speak to Glenn Moore, and mention me.

Chris

[llith]

From my recent experience with a recent DMF failure on my 2005 RAV that had done 80000 miles driven by one driver and with no towing I can conclude that the DMF is a weak point in these cars.The clutch was only one third worn but the DMF failed.I would have no qualms if a clutch needed replacing after 80000 miles but for a DMF to fail before the clutch is bad in my opinion.Much better to have a SMF and a spring loaded clutch from the start.Toyota got it wrong.

[kostadinnm]

Hello. I am on the same dilema as my clutch is close to its end: http://www.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/topic/151745-corolla-e12-1cd-ftv-clutch-replacing-choice-oem-vs-aftermarket/

But what's been making me wonder SMF with springs will do the work is this announcement:

http://www.aisin-europe.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=116&Itemid=244 -> news 3

Add to that the fact that a colleague of mine, driving an Avensis with the same engine, now has the gearbox broken(the vehicle is unable to keep on the 5th gear)!

Do you have any experiences with the LuK-ones - are they softer?!

I think I can bear replacing it back again after some time, as long as it does not ruin the gearbox and it behaves better on the uphills!

One more question - I was advised that I could miss changing the gearbox oil(done at 105 000km on my vehicles - now it's 115 00km). The explanation was that it had gathered metal particals thus far and has a good consistency, which will be distorted on changing. I think I'll do the gear-box oil-change, as well as the hydraulics one even though it's 10 000km late - what do you think?!

[Tech01]

Gearbox problems do not seem to be being reported here by those who have fitted an SMF to replace failed DMF units, even after substantial mileages.

It's also worth noting that 5th gear problems (noise, popping-out, vibration etc) have occurred over a large number of years on RAV4s (RAV4.1 and 4.2, late '90s to 2005+), on both petrol and diesel vehicles, the vast majority of which are NOT fitted with an SMF conversion. (DMFs were only fitted to diesels.)

The shock-absorption in an SMF conversion is done by the springs in the clutch-plate. It does not have the unsprung plate of the DMF. DMFs fitted to later vehicles seem to give fewer problems, but it is unclear whether it is these OEM components that have been redesigned (to overcome widespread earlier failure) or whether the engine mapping/design had been tweaked to produce less idle and low-rev vibration. Certainly the earlier D4Ds could not be described as "smooth" compared with some other marques.

On the subject of changing (or not changing) gearbox oil, there are some who argue that changing the fluid in some models of auto box can produce unwanted results, but, so far as I am aware, this caution does not apply to manual boxes, where the recommended intervals should be observed.

Chris