6Th Gear Failure (At Speed) ... Anyone Else?

[Aurissimo]

Quick question;

Scoured the forum, could not find anything, so I think I know the answer,

Has anyone else heard, or experienced a 6th gear failure?

(Auris T180, 6MT)

2 weeks age i had my 6th gear fail, as I was driving at 70mph on the fast lane of the motorway. Result, loss of drive, just about managed to get car to hard shoulder (interesting moments! ) but afterwards found out still had drive on other gears and seemed to be contained to failure on the 6th gear alone, so that no debris resulted of the faliure, inside the gearbox, that could have damaged other bits of the transmission ...

I am finding it quite difficult to figure out how this happened as gears should not fail in this way... specially when driving at speed. so i am thinking if the part was weak ( poor heat treatment, manufacturing process, and my high mileage has accelerated the failure of what might be coming to other guys in due course...)

( Photos to come once i get the bits back...on FRIDAY hopefully)

As an "overdrive" type gear there should be little torque/loading going through it... and yes I do a lot of motorway driving ( 146k miles on the clock) but even so...

Luckily it was me driving and not the missus, and recovered the situation relatively safely.

Car is at the dealers now waiting for 6th gear to arrive ( 2 weeks waiting for 6th gear part) . As you will imagine it is an overhaul job, and replacement of 6th, shaft and 3rd ( on the same shaft, so might as well) and getting the clutch done also ( whilst box is out).

Any advice or experience of this kind of failure gladly welcome !

Cheers!

[jettech]

The highest gear failure is often down to low oil level- just guessing. I have my opinion about Toyota gearboxes as mine was rebuilit not long ago for a total cost of £1600.

[mravikt]

Hey,

I just had the exact same failure two days ago on the highway (2007 D-CAT, 140k miles). 6th gear is gone, the rest work,

though there's some rattling sometimes, even in neutral if the clutch is released fast. At least I didn't need a trailer...

I called a Toyota specialist, and he basically finished my sentence about the problem... :)

He says he has 5-6 of these 6-speed gearboxes in his workshop, with the same issue.

I'll get the transmission removed Monday morning, then head straight to the guy. He said, it

could be fixed in 1-2 days. Fingers crossed... I'll report back later.

Quick question;
Scoured the forum, could not find anything, so I think I know the answer,
Has anyone else heard, or experienced a 6th gear failure?
(Auris T180, 6MT)

2 weeks age i had my 6th gear fail, as I was driving at 70mph on the fast lane of the motorway. Result, loss of drive, just about managed to get car to hard shoulder (interesting moments! ) but afterwards found out still had drive on other gears and seemed to be contained to failure on the 6th gear alone, so that no debris resulted of the faliure, inside the gearbox, that could have damaged other bits of the transmission ...

I am finding it quite difficult to figure out how this happened as gears should not fail in this way... specially when driving at speed. so i am thinking if the part was weak ( poor heat treatment, manufacturing process, and my high mileage has accelerated the failure of what might be coming to other guys in due course...)
( Photos to come once i get the bits back...on FRIDAY hopefully)

As an "overdrive" type gear there should be little torque/loading going through it... and yes I do a lot of motorway driving ( 146k miles on the clock) but even so...
Luckily it was me driving and not the missus, and recovered the situation relatively safely.

Car is at the dealers now waiting for 6th gear to arrive ( 2 weeks waiting for 6th gear part) . As you will imagine it is an overhaul job, and replacement of 6th, shaft and 3rd ( on the same shaft, so might as well) and getting the clutch done also ( whilst box is out).

Any advice or experience of this kind of failure gladly welcome !

Cheers!

[mravikt]

Btw, Aurissimo. Do you have any photos of the damaged part?

[frankie406]

Same sort of problems in the vauxhall m32 gearboxes they say the 6th is too high geared and whilst driving on any incline you should gear down to stop the gear oil from heating to almost boiling and destroying the box..

[mravikt]

UPDATE

The gearbox was taken apart by a specialist, and repaired in a day for around €200. The 6th gear cog (33337-20060) had to be replaced. The inside grooves were nearly flat. See image. In the meantime a brand new clutch kit was installed; the old one was pretty worn out.

[TomdeGuerre]

That's a canny lot of wear on them splines Tibor laddy, that's what you get for block changing. What were you doing, straight from 2nd gear into 6th? All that gear-bursting torque from your 2.2.

Speaking of which, what happened to all the worn bits? Surprised they never got between the gear teeth and caused the box to explode, you must have a magnetic plug or plate in the box to collect them.

[mravikt]

That's a canny lot of wear on them splines Tibor laddy, that's what you get for block changing. What were you doing, straight from 2nd gear into 6th? All that gear-bursting torque from your 2.2.

Speaking of which, what happened to all the worn bits? Surprised they never got between the gear teeth and caused the box to explode, you must have a magnetic plug or plate in the box to collect them.

I did nothing like 2nd to 6th haha. Actually I rarely make any kind of block shifting up.

It happened while driving at constant 150 kph on the highway. Not even accelerating or something. Only cruise control.

The guy said that the material of the cog (apperantely weaker than the shaft) and depth of those grooves together lead to failure. I don´t know what happened to the debris. Maybe you´re right with the magnetic plate. The rest of the gearbox parts were undamaged.

[mravikt]

That's a canny lot of wear on them splines Tibor laddy, that's what you get for block changing. What were you doing, straight from 2nd gear into 6th? All that gear-bursting torque from your 2.2.

Speaking of which, what happened to all the worn bits? Surprised they never got between the gear teeth and caused the box to explode, you must have a magnetic plug or plate in the box to collect them.

I did nothing like 2nd to 6th haha. Actually I rarely make any kind of block shifting up.

It happened while driving at constant 150 kph on the highway. Not even accelerating or something. Only cruise control.

The guy said that the material of the cog (apperantely weaker than the shaft) and depth of those grooves together lead to failure. I don´t know what happened to the debris. Maybe you´re right with the magnetic plate. The rest of the gearbox parts were undamaged.

Or maybe they were... The car was reassembled today, and took the first test drive successfully. The 6th gear failed again during the second test round... The same way as first time.

[TomdeGuerre]

6th gear gone again.... ye gods, all that work for nothing. Did they measure the mainshaft bearings for wear and change the synchro hub as well? Ah well, if they did, I can see a trip to Mr T coming up for a new box. No use going to the scrappy's for one you might end up with one that's just as bad.

On the other hand I do know where there's a good 3 speed crash box, wee bit of fettling here and there....

[mravikt]

UPDATE II.

Finally a 2006 Avensis (2AD-FTV) gearbox was built in, along with a good condition used DMF and

a new Sachs clutch kit. The car is now more silent then ever, and shifting feels a lot smoother and more precise.

I guess I'll just sell the old gearbox to a scrapyard, or have a 100 lb metal flowerbed...

Too bad for all the money and time trying to get the original fixed... if the Avensis had been scrapped

two days earlier, I could've simply buy the parts and avoid all this...

[mravikt]

UPDATE II.

Finally a 2006 Avensis (2AD-FTV) gearbox was built in, along with a good condition used DMF and

a new Sachs clutch kit. The car is now more silent then ever, and shifting feels a lot smoother and more precise.

I guess I'll just sell the old gearbox to a scrapyard, or have a 100 lb metal flowerbed...

Too bad for all the money and time trying to get the original fixed... if the Avensis had been scrapped

two days earlier, I could've simply buy the parts and avoid all this...

UPDATE III... (seems like I was too optimistic)

So as I mentioned above an Avensis gearbox (EA61) was built in, from a 2006 2AD-FHV model (that was the best I could find such a short time...).

Until today I only drove with it within city limits, and I was really safisfied. The gearbox itself works flawlessly, it's smooth and precise.

But today I had to hit the highway. Ratios in 5th and 6th are very short compared to the original EA60 transmission.

The car revs nearly 3000 a bit over 150 kph, before around it was 2600. Imagine the consumption and the sound...

And the weirdest is that it keeps telling me to shift up, while it's already in 6th... (see below)

The other issue is engine noise. Somehow it's now very loudly and clearly (I mean idling, diesel rattling, turbo whistling) audible inside, like never before.

I suspect some soundproofing part wasn't refit when the whole thing was built back together. The sounds seem to come from the driver footwell's direction.

[yossarian247]

That's not good. Sounds as though the Avensis, being a larger heavier car, was lower geared to give it reasonable power in 5th & 6th to cope with the heavier bodyshell.

And the weirdest is that it keeps telling me to shift up, while it's already in 6th... (see below)

That I can explain. The ECU doesn't have any direct link to the gearbox, it simply compares road speed to the engine revs and calculates which gear it thinks the car must be in. Hence you can sometimes get a 'Shift down' warning if coasting in neutral for example. Because it's still calibrated to your original gearbox ratios it assumes you must be in 5th rather than 6th, so it will tell you to change up, even though you can't.

[cobh18]

Tyres with a larger rolling radius might cure it:) If they fit.

[mravikt]

Tyres with a larger rolling radius might cure it:) If they fit.

Haha, I'll just switch the 23" wheels from my imaginary Escalade... :)

That's not good. Sounds as though the Avensis, being a larger heavier car, was lower geared to give it reasonable power in 5th & 6th to cope with the heavier bodyshell.

And the weirdest is that it keeps telling me to shift up, while it's already in 6th... (see below)

That I can explain. The ECU doesn't have any direct link to the gearbox, it simply compares road speed to the engine revs and calculates which gear it thinks the car must be in. Hence you can sometimes get a 'Shift down' warning if coasting in neutral for example. Because it's still calibrated to your original gearbox ratios it assumes you must be in 5th rather than 6th, so it will tell you to change up, even though you can't.

Yeah, maybe that's why. There's some connector on the gearbox, but it may only be for the reverse light :) Anyway, this can't stay like this for long.

OK for a while, but since my trips are 90% highway, it isn't very efficient... and it's freakin' loud.

btw. - Could someone post of photo of their Auris' driver footwell (behind the pedals)? I suspect there's a panel missing from there in mine. But I don't have any reference... Thanks!

[tavy]

Tyres with a larger rolling radius might cure it:) If they fit.

Haha, I'll just switch the 23" wheels from my imaginary Escalade... :)

23" on Auris ? It would look like a chariot.

You can use with your new gear box 225/50 R17 or 224/45 R18 in order to increase speed at the same rpm.

[mravikt]

Tyres with a larger rolling radius might cure it:) If they fit.

Haha, I'll just switch the 23" wheels from my imaginary Escalade... :)

23" on Auris ? It would look like a chariot.

You can use with your new gear box 225/50 R17 or 224/45 R18 in order to increase speed at the same rpm.

A badass chariot... :P It's now black, with a silver front bumper anyway. Consequence of an accident.

It has 225/45 R17's on already. I get another gearbox for the price of a set of 18's with tyres... :D

Actually I'm getting to like the short geubikt in urban traffic. It's a real torpedo. Maybe I'll order a

longer 6th cog and replace that part only for the highway :) I'm not sure if that could work or not...

[mravikt]

UPDATE Nr. 4-5...?

The original gearbox had been repaired, and swapped with the short replacement one. The vibration/noise issue was also fixed. Something around the exhaust manifold mounting was loose. Plus new wheel bearings, brakes overhaul, etc.

I was very happy... Really. Flawless. Until this:

https://youtu.be/cxAAbnYSfcU

It took three weeks to fail again. All of a sudden, during cruising on the highway around 140 km/h.

Now I have two options:

• Get this one repaired again. This means a new input shaft and 6th gear - together around EUR 400.
• Get another replacement (EUR 450) - I've found one from a Corolla Verso (177 hp), but I'm unsure about its gear ratios (EA60 v. EA62). Does anyone have reliable information about it? Finding a specific Auris one is nearly impossible...

Thanks guys.

[Konrad C]

Sorry for the late response.

I think the casting must be warped or damaged, the gear syncro not strong enough, or the gearbox is out of tolerance or has play.

You had no problems with the Avensis gearbox apart from the shorter 6th gearing.

http://media.toyota.co.uk/wp-content/files_mf/1330424162120221M2012Avensistechnicalspecs.pdf

http://www.wess.lv/toyota/Public/upload/toyotaspecs/Auris_specs_eng.pdf

What if you stripped the Avensis gearbox and install a longer 6th gear in place of the shorter version?

It may work because the signal speed and ratio signal may stop the upshift light. You may need to swap some sensors from the broken box to help correct the signals.

Just some ideas from a non-mechanic.

How did you get on?

You drive at high speeds in your country. What are the speed limits?

[mravikt]

Sorry for the late response.

I think the casting must be warped or damaged, the gear syncro not strong enough, or the gearbox is out of tolerance or has play.

You had no problems with the Avensis gearbox apart from the shorter 6th gearing.

http://media.toyota.co.uk/wp-content/files_mf/1330424162120221M2012Avensistechnicalspecs.pdf

http://www.wess.lv/toyota/Public/upload/toyotaspecs/Auris_specs_eng.pdf

What if you stripped the Avensis gearbox and install a longer 6th gear in place of the shorter version?

It may work because the signal speed and ratio signal may stop the upshift light. You may need to swap some sensors from the broken box to help correct the signals.

Just some ideas from a non-mechanic.

How did you get on?

You drive at high speeds in your country. What are the speed limits?

That's exactly what I did! :)

I got the short 6th in the Avensis transmission replaced. I contacted Toyota Customer support and asked for every detail of the EA6x gearbox family. They

were really helpful, I got what I asked for in maybe two days. We checked, if it was possible, then a gearbox-specialist did the work. It wasn't even expensive, around 150 Euros for the labor (incl. gearbox overhaul).The parts were a bit pricy, almost 400 Euros... But it works well now. No sensors, or anything else had to be changed. This should have been done in the first place...

Very high speeds? 140-150 km/h is usual here.

[Konrad C]

Sorry for the late response.

I think the casting must be warped or damaged, the gear syncro not strong enough, or the gearbox is out of tolerance or has play.

You had no problems with the Avensis gearbox apart from the shorter 6th gearing.

http://media.toyota.co.uk/wp-content/files_mf/1330424162120221M2012Avensistechnicalspecs.pdf

http://www.wess.lv/toyota/Public/upload/toyotaspecs/Auris_specs_eng.pdf

What if you stripped the Avensis gearbox and install a longer 6th gear in place of the shorter version?

It may work because the signal speed and ratio signal may stop the upshift light. You may need to swap some sensors from the broken box to help correct the signals.

Just some ideas from a non-mechanic.

How did you get on?

You drive at high speeds in your country. What are the speed limits?

That's exactly what I did! :)

I got the short 6th in the Avensis transmission replaced. I contacted Toyota Customer support and asked for every detail of the EA6x gearbox family. They

were really helpful, I got what I asked for in maybe two days. We checked, if it was possible, then a gearbox-specialist did the work. It wasn't even expensive, around 150 Euros for the labor (incl. gearbox overhaul).The parts were a bit pricy, almost 400 Euros... But it works well now. No sensors, or anything else had to be changed. This should have been done in the first place...

Very high speeds? 140-150 km/h is usual here.

See, I was late to the game.

Glad it has all worked out and you have your car back.

I thought that your original gearbox had a fault that was trashing your 6th gear, and since you had a good gearbox from the Avensis, change the ratio to Auris spec. I think the shift lights work from both revs and speed. Now with the right ratio, the shift indicator no longer lights once you are in 6th gear.

Your issue was rare, and now any other owner will now know what can be done to fix the car.

[mravikt]

Sorry for the late response.

I think the casting must be warped or damaged, the gear syncro not strong enough, or the gearbox is out of tolerance or has play.

You had no problems with the Avensis gearbox apart from the shorter 6th gearing.

http://media.toyota.co.uk/wp-content/files_mf/1330424162120221M2012Avensistechnicalspecs.pdf

http://www.wess.lv/toyota/Public/upload/toyotaspecs/Auris_specs_eng.pdf

What if you stripped the Avensis gearbox and install a longer 6th gear in place of the shorter version?

It may work because the signal speed and ratio signal may stop the upshift light. You may need to swap some sensors from the broken box to help correct the signals.

Just some ideas from a non-mechanic.

How did you get on?

You drive at high speeds in your country. What are the speed limits?

That's exactly what I did! :)

I got the short 6th in the Avensis transmission replaced. I contacted Toyota Customer support and asked for every detail of the EA6x gearbox family. They

were really helpful, I got what I asked for in maybe two days. We checked, if it was possible, then a gearbox-specialist did the work. It wasn't even expensive, around 150 Euros for the labor (incl. gearbox overhaul).The parts were a bit pricy, almost 400 Euros... But it works well now. No sensors, or anything else had to be changed. This should have been done in the first place...

Very high speeds? 140-150 km/h is usual here.

See, I was late to the game.

Glad it has all worked out and you have your car back.

I thought that your original gearbox had a fault that was trashing your 6th gear, and since you had a good gearbox from the Avensis, change the ratio to Auris spec. I think the shift lights work from both revs and speed. Now with the right ratio, the shift indicator no longer lights once you are in 6th gear.

Your issue was rare, and now any other owner will now know what can be done to fix the car.

Yes, it did have the fault.

Probably, as you also mentioned, it has some small deformation in the casing or whatever, which is enough to mess up the balance in there. The Avensis gearbox was bought as a replacement after the first failed repair, but it turned out to be short. After that, the first gearbox guy attempted a second, "warranty" repair on the original one. That worked for three weeks, then it trashed itself again... I lost the rest of my hope in that workshop then.

Then came another transmission dude, and told us: "Don't even try to repair the old one again, it will just keep crashing. It's probably deformed. I had a similar case recently with a Legacy..." Then came up the idea of replacing the sixth in the spare one. I was lucky I couldn't sell it in the meantime... :D