'which' Magazine Reveals Easiest Cars To Drive.

[s44gtw]

http://www.which.co....to-drive-299992

Obviously the iQ is in the top 5.

Strange is the comments in my opinion.

I can agree that the shine can be taken off by poor rear visibility,

(even tho i think that is untill you get to know where to look and find it is fine)

But to comment on the width.

It is as roomy as most medium sized cars and does look wide,

but is 1680 mm wide & a turning circle of 8 meters which means the width is not relevant IMO.

Now its amazing they include a Yeti, & they must mean all Yeti's, because be it a 4x4 or a front wheel drive, the visibility is the same & ease to drive.

But it is 1790 mm wide with a turning circle of 10.5 meters. (around 8 feet more than an iQ, in old money)

no comment from Which or drivers on the width tho.

A MIni is 1690 mm wide and has a turning circle of 10.7 meters

I just always feel protective of the iQ,

and get annoyed at the things that surveys or testers pick as down sides.

Being wide just seems stupid to me to comment on.

(even tho i often think, this is wide DOH)

never makes it less easy to drive.

george

[Guest]

That does seem unfair George and I agree with you about being protective towards the iQ, especially with a silly comment like that.

[tarquin]

George,

Think we are back where we were before.

(They asked the owners if their car was easy to drive). One, they would be biased, and two, its unlikely that the owners would have driven a batch of modern cars to compare with. End of story. Anyone on this forum been asked to comment on theirs? Funny though the young lady who chose Bob to have his car photographed came on here first as its the most obvious place to find owners but not if your doing a survey it seems.

David

[s44gtw]

There have been a couple of comments on the most used Skoda forum 'Briskoda' by Yeti drivers saying the same as i thought.

A Yeti looks big outside, but once inside you then see that its not, the wide bottom half, exterior gives no extra seating space,

its actually quite tight at shoulder height, not much room at the foot/floor space either.

the wide track does not make driving or parking it easy & kerbing wheels is a PITA.

The one thing that i do find in an iQ is, not knowing exactly where the front nearside corner is as i turn in tight to a left hand entrance & i think i will be near the kerb.

Thats even tho, having stopped to check once early on when first driving an iQ, you know you are no place near the kerb.

george

[tarquin]

I kerb that wheel the most

David

[FROSTYBALLS]

This Which? article is an extract from the 2012 Which? Car Survey - where Which? members provide information on the cars they own - and not a separate survey. One of the categories Which? members comment on as regards their cars, is 'Ease of Driving'.

Unlike What Car (JD Power Survey) or Auto Express, the Which? survey isn't open to non-members.

The IQ falls into the City car segment of the market. Cars in this segment have the following widths (taken from manufacturer websites): IQ 1680mm; Aygo 1615mm; Vokswagen Up 1641mm; Kia Picanto and Hyundai i10 1595mm; Suzuki Alto 1600mm.

So within the City car segment the IQ is one of the widest cars, and compared to other cars in this segment the width could be an issue for some.

I think it is also partly to do with owner perceptions - eg. car A) could feel wider from the driving seat than car B) due to a number of factors.

[tarquin]

I still think it strange that every time a survey comes out where they proclaim iQ owners were asked to make comments about their car , nobody on this forum has ever been asked. Being a skeptic, i would suggest they make them up.

David

[FROSTYBALLS]

How would you know whether anyone on the forum has or hasn't contributed to a survey? You don't, and it is not something that organisations who undertake surveys, gather data on.

For example, as a Which? member since 1975, I have fed into each Which? car survey they have done for the time I've been a car owner - including ownership of five Toyotas. As I have said, only Which? members contribute to the Which? surveys.

Readers of Auto Express can contribute to the annual Auto Express survey. Readers of What Car can contribute to the annual JD Power survey.

From the numbers involved in these three surveys alone, there must be a percentage who contribute to the relevant Owners Club forums. Surveying organisations don't need to contact numerous owners clubs, as more often than not, they can attract an adequate sample of owners to complete their surveys.

[tarquin]

The reason i am sceptical that the data is correct, is that we were made aware of another survey that states that the IQ owners they had spoken to, gave a list of things they were unhappy about. 1, boot space, 2, fiddly radio controls, 3, poor rear visibility. Now these were owners who had no doubt taken the car on a test drive, looked over the car, and were happy enough to spend their cash and buy it. They must of realised that the rear view is not the best, The radio controls are no more difficult than operating any remote control in your home (in fact far more easier) and the boot space is almost non-existence. They must of known what the car was like when they bought it. No good commenting about it on a survey after you made the decision to buy it. i must say all the genuine gripes that people have mentioned on here like internal lighting being very poor, or poor headlights on an un-lit country road was never mentioned. I think the policy of only asking subscribers to a magazine's survey's is in itself biased. You don't necessarily pick up on the enthusiast who will give true critical judgements. I am not sure a survey asking people if their car is easy to drive, is meaningful as its all perception.

If you asked a micra driver, a Aygo driver and an iQ driver if their cars were easy to drive, they are all likely to say yes even if they hadn't driven any of the other cars in that class, but i can tell you the Aygo and iQ are worlds apart. So if i was in the market for a city class car the result would be meaning less. Which, are a fine company but I think there is no point doing survey"s for would be car purchasers. The reason I give is you can go to any dealer and look over the car of your potential choice and drive it. If you were looking for a domestic product i.e steam iron, washing machine etc, you would normally never have the opportunity to try before you buy

Remember, its only my opinion should you disagree

David

[s44gtw]

I can see the comment in the post here on the city car widths.

& the iQ & the Mini being towards the wider end of the 'City car' widths.

100 mm wider than those being a Yeti, only 4" in old money.

But how did it get into that class of car.

Lots of 'Which' subscribers are Yeti owners & respond to surveys i suspect.

'Which' like to make a 'Headline' or a revelation that gets Publicity, media coverage, more likely.

Surely there were no or not many 'Which' members that drove 'Qubo/Nemo/Bipper's,

one of the best City cars IMO.

1716 mm wide, Tight turning circle, all around view,

rear doors slide so good in parking places for children in and out without damaging others cars, economical, easy to park etc etc

A very good City car & often over looked.

george

[tarquin]

Quote from George

"Surely there were no or not many 'Which' members that drove 'Qubo/Nemo/Bipper's,

one of the best City cars IMO.

1716 mm wide, Tight turning circle, all around view,"

So surveys using subscribers to the surveying body, miss George's little gem as there doesn't seem to be many or any owners that are subscribers to the magazine. Subscription, is not a big enough size in which to formulate accurate data.

David

[FROSTYBALLS]

I don't know how George classified the Fiat Qubo/Citroen Nemo/Peugeot Bipper as a city car as it is plainly too large for this segment.

In fact they were each included in the 2012 Which? survey under the correct category of people carriers/MPV (multi purpose vehicle).

Concerns included the fact that the Citroen only scored three stars in the Euro NCAP test. When the Citroen was tested in avoidance tests approx 18 months ago, it flipped onto it's roof due to the absence of electronic stability control (now fitted as standard to all three as a result of the poor performance in these tests).

Although each version got five stars from owners for boot capacity and storage, scores for performance, ride comfort, handling and safety ranged from one star to three stars. Overall score for each version was 40%

Which? rated all three versions as a 'Don't Buy' because of the poor Euro NCAP test result.

The Which? Car Survey is the UK's biggest car survey, giving owners the chance to tell us how reliable and satisfying their cars have been over the past 12 months.

[Guest]

The Which? Car Survey is the UK's biggest car survey, giving owners the chance to tell us how reliable and satisfying their cars have been over the past 12 months.

So the question is, why did they not consult anyone who owns an iQ on this forum? Did they indeed ask anyone, just one person? Did anyone on here take part in the WHICH? Magazine survey? I wasn't asked, I didn't take part. So one would have to guess that our opinions do not count. Now, AutoExpress have a survey anyone can take part in, and last year enough iQ owners took part for it to get a rating. It's in here somewhere, the results from 2011 Driver Power Survey. It came 23rd - http://www.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=135429

[FROSTYBALLS]

That question was answered in my first post.

Which? members (over 671,000 members) and Which? online subscribers (over 251,000 online subscribers) are able to take part in Which? surveys and provide product reviews on individual products included within Which? tests. Non-members/non-online subscribers are not invited.

As said in my second post, one will never know how many people on this forum are Which? members and whether they completed the 2012 survey. Likewise, one will never know how many forum members completed the Auto Express Driver Power survey and What Car JD Power survey.

[s44gtw]

Frostyballs,,

the Qubo/Nemo/Bipper is physically smaller than a Yeti

& has only a maximum size of a 1248 or 1360cc engine, so if to big for the segment it makes the winner also too big for the segment.

If the Citroen lacks something the other 2 from the other Manufacturers have as standard 'ESC'

then they do not all fall into the same supposed fall over problem, not something a City Car that can actually carry passengers normally gets judged on.

how does the 'bigger' in size Yeti win the 'City Car segment' or even get into that segment ?

Qubo length 3864mm, Yeti 4223mm

Qubo width 1684 Yeti 1793mm

Confused, but whats new.

Not really bothered, as i said, seems to me like a usual 'Which' headline seeker.

george

[FROSTYBALLS]

Quite simply nobody has described the Yeti as a city car or supermini - not me, not Which?

Which? stated:

"Four of the top five models are superminis. Particularly suited to urban driving, small cars generally boast tight turning circles, light steering and good visibility, and are generally the easiest cars to park.

However, it's the Skoda Yeti that takes top spot, despite its chunky crossover SUV body style. This robust family car scored 94.4% for ease of driving in our survey, with owners commenting on the good driving position and light clutch."

The four superminis were 2) Toyota IQ, 3) Mini (2001-07), 4) Fiat Panda (2004-11), and 5) Mini (2007 on).

George described the Qubo/Nemo/Bipper as a city car, when it is not. Engine sizes - Qubo 1.4 petrol or 1.3 diesel, Nemo/Bipper 1.4 diesel (so don't know where you get the 1250 from).

[tarquin]

This post is probably going to be long winded. My problem is with surveys. When i bought my iQ it was really nice and easy to drive (in my opinion). When i lowered it and put wide 18 inch wheels on it , it drives incredibly, traction is far better and handling is outstanding. Lets call the modded iQ , iQ4. And a different car. Now if i had not driven the "iQ4" i would think my stock iQ was easy to drive and be none the wiser and would report in the survey that its easy to drive because i would not have experienced the iQ4. The survey is then meaningless as the people entering have not experienced other cars in the group to make a comparison. They could drive their iQ and think its great then have the chance to try another and say WoW !!! This is far better and then not rate theirs at all. You cant make a valid decision until you have compared. Speaking on surveys. I at the ripe old age of 58 have never been asked to enter a survey for anything.

Lets start by asking if any members of this site has ever been asked to enter a survey about their iQ. ha (car)

David

[s44gtw]

Yes my bad right from the start, i should have gone to Spec Savers.

No idea why i thought it got the City Car award, just Easy to drive.

FROSTYBALLS,

i got 1250cc from my Diesel 1.3 Bipper Tepee having been actually 1248cc.

That was when they became Euro 5 versions in the Qubo/Nemo & Bipper.

My first Euro 4 Bipper was a 1.4 diesel.

george

[Guest]

That question was answered in my first post.

Which? members (over 671,000 members) and Which? online subscribers (over 251,000 online subscribers) are able to take part in Which? surveys and provide product reviews on individual products included within Which? tests. Non-members/non-online subscribers are not invited.

As said in my second post, one will never know how many people on this forum are Which? members and whether they completed the 2012 survey. Likewise, one will never know how many forum members completed the Auto Express Driver Power survey and What Car JD Power survey.

But why?

WHICH Magazine is what it is, for members only, like you Frostyballs. So, with the numbers you quoted -which is a hell of a lot of people- one would be led to believe it should make for a fair survey. However, I think half the problems with any survey are the questions, how they are worded and how you are allowed to answer them.

Ratings from 0 to 10, Excellent to Very Poor and so on. No space to put ones own comments. I know that is the nature of surveys, as it would be very difficult to somehow find just a few words that could represent all the views people could write on one subject, like turning circle for example. How would most people measure that? Would most people know about it anyway? Lots of people drive cars just because they look good, they are not too bothered if that is not as good as another car.

Just like everyone here who has posted on this subject, the opinions vary, the views differ, yet we all still like our iQ's just as much as we did before. I have often said that if I won enough on the lottery I would get a 'nice' car. I already own one, but this is special because of it's abilities, and for it's lack of other abilities. I agree with a comment made by David earlier about trying out other cars, and a Micra, iQ and a Mini driver, or even a Fiat 500 driver would each say their car drives well, possibly. But, we are not all journalists working for a popular magazine conducting a survey. Those people have the regular opportunity to try out various types of car, from city cars to hypercars.

I love my little iQ for what it does, limitations and all. I bought it knowing it would never be as good at carrying stuff as my T reg Mondeo was, or as fast. I also knew the iQ would get double the economy of my Mondeo -almost anyway. I did know it would cost an awful lot less to run and I was prepared to even buy a Smart car, but luckily the iQ came up at the right time.

Thanks for letting us know about those results anyway Frostyballs.

[tarquin]

Funny how people see their cars as you say Bob. This afternoon i was in a B&Q car park. Whilst i was inside another iQ parked next to me bar one. I sat there doing stuff on my phone blah blah and the owners came back,a young couple. There i was looking at them side by side 4 ft away, they didnt even notice me bearing in mind my car is very distinctive and sticks out a mile. It seemed to them their car was any other car to get about in and if you had surrounded them with iQ's they wouldnt have noticed. Btw it was the same colour as yours very nice Bob.

David

[FROSTYBALLS]

When you think about it, the way Which? operates has similarities to the Toyota Owners Club and car forums like www.car4play.co.uk and www.honestjohn.co.uk.

These sites, like Which?, only allow people who sign up to them as members, to raise topics and post comments against topics.

If you don't sign up, you cannot join in.

The difference is of course, that the Consumers Association (who run Which?) charge for membership (members receive whichever magazines they choose to pay for) and their online subscription service (allows full access to the Which? website).

Which? has now been operating (albeit originally from very small beginnings) for just over 50 years. I've been a member since 1975.

[Guest]

Funny how people see their cars as you say Bob. This afternoon i was in a B&Q car park. Whilst i was inside another iQ parked next to me bar one. I sat there doing stuff on my phone blah blah and the owners came back,a young couple. There i was looking at them side by side 4 ft away, they didnt even notice me bearing in mind my car is very distinctive and sticks out a mile. It seemed to them their car was any other car to get about in and if you had surrounded them with iQ's they wouldnt have noticed. Btw it was the same colour as yours very nice Bob.

David

Figures. I think it's a shame in one way that people like that are not interested in the 'iQ Community,' like we appear to be. However, I also think that these kind of people -although I don't really want to generalise- go about their day without a care in the world for anyone else. Like, if they saw someone being dragged into a van, they wouldn't bat an eyelid, would never think about getting the registration or any other details that would help the police, for example. A bit harsh? I don't think so. It's not a malicious thing they do, they just don't think about anything else outside of their little world and circle of friends. They are not aware of all the 'other stuff' going on around them, as if they are blind to anything that does not take their interest. Rant over. No it's not, WAKE UP PEOPLE!

[tarquin]

You are dead right Bob, you see it in drivers. Not thinking ahead. Just going through the motions of going from A to B. Classics are queuing traffic temp lights set up. Driver comes down the outside into on incoming traffic as the other side the lights are green. Then has to reverse all the way back down the queue. I have even seen another also overtaking and is hooting the guy who is reversing back to him. Total chaos for being in his little world.

David