Removing Discount From London Congestion Charge

[Westender]

Just had an e-mail from TfL to say they are consulting on some changes to the London Congestion Charge Scheme, one of which being a change to the qualifying criteria for green vehicles. They are reducing the emissions qualification to vehicles with 75mg CO2 or less. Existing exemption holders will be able to keep the exemption up to June 2015. Bugger!!

[Yolina]

Well one thing to do is to fill in the online questionnaire about the consultation :) which I did yesterday, pointing out that a reduction in threshold from 100mg to 75mg was quite steep to do in one go. They also want to remove the ability to pay at shops and garages, which I don't agree with either - after all they should give as wide a range of payment options as possible. Thirdly there's a proposed increased for the penalty to increase from £120 to £130 to be in line with the other London motoring penalty charges which I don't really care about (other than absolutely outrageous price - but nothing we can do about that)

They do ask for name/ address type of info at the start but the form submitted fine without filling these in ;)

Edit: the consultation is until 8 Feb 2013 https://consultation...gestioncharging

[Ethanedwards]

Translation mode....we're not making enough money from you mobile cash cows. So we have to apply a bit of mission creep to the system to keep the moolah rolling in.

I haven't even registered mine as they wanted a tenner for the privilege.

Plus I have only ever driven in the charge zone ..once. Cost a tenner anyway so not worth my effort to register.

Viva working in Colchester and residing in rural efficks!

All UK Government has the same relationship to tax revenue as an alcoholic does to booze. Never get enough of it. They are taxaholics.

[Sooty]

Why oh why can't the money grabbers in Westminster leave the motorist alone.

We already pay too much to use the roads.

They should start sh***ing on the work shy spongers instead. That would save them millions.

[Westender]

I do commute into central London 4 times a week and the congestion charge exemption was a factor in choosing the Prius. I'm not a big earner so prior to getting the Prius I used to get in to work early and leave late to avoid the charge. I help to care for my elderly mum who lives in West London so not having to pay the charge has given me more flexibility.

[Yolina]

Translation mode....we're not making enough money from you mobile cash cows. So we have to apply a bit of mission creep to the system to keep the moolah rolling in.

Exactly

I haven't even registered mine as they wanted a tenner for the privilege.

Plus I have only ever driven in the charge zone ..once. Cost a tenner anyway so not worth my effort to register.

I have registered, not that I drive through it particularly often but there's maybe 10 to 15 times a year where it would make things easier for me if I did, rather than having to go around it, so figured that it was worth a tenner :P for the year. Maybe I'll go and nip in the CG zone once a week from now on, just because

Edit: so apart from the 100% electric cars, which cars would qualify for the discount at the new threshold?Can only think of the Prius plug in and the Vauxhall Ampera for now. But no, it's not a money-grabbing exercise, honest...

IIRC, exemption threshold was 120mg in 2008, lowered to 100 in 2011.

[cuius]

Is it too much to hope that with less emphasis on tax/charge-breaks the manufacturers will have less incentive to have premium pricing for hybrids/EVs (see the Prius plug-in price in UK compared to elsewhere)?

[Bibsy]

This might just be softening up for increased RFL charges of course. The amount taken on "road tax" is eaten into by concessions and reductions for low emission vehicles - at some point the only way to claw it back is to tax something else more, or more likely make the zero charge a tenner, the tenner charge 25, and so on.

[Ethanedwards]

But this is another classic example of Mission creep.

Set up to relieve congestion (so they say - I think otherwise).

But it's now engineering out so called 'polluting vehicles'...which was not the stated purpose when it was set up.

ergo..Mission creep.

I could support charging based on the length of a vehicle as thats directly proportional to the roadspace it occupies and congestion it may engender but this is just preposterous....and we Brits just accept it!

No whats happening here is a self aggrandising self perpetuating bureaucratic behemoth that needs ever increasing amounts of our funds to feed it's ravenous appetite.

Other great examples of mission creep are the Dartford tunnel tolls...initially they were to repay the costs of construction. Then once fully recouped and a vast sinking fund established....when faced with having to stop fleecing the motorist they changed the tolls to a 'congestion toll'. Not mentioning that the toll collecting barriers were themselves the source of 90% of the congestion.

It amazes me just how docile us Brits are. The French would be out burning lambs alive and blockading the car ferries at half the crud we put up with.

Britain...Grate doesn't it.

[Yolina]

It amazes me just how docile us Brits are. The French would be out burning lambs alive and blockading the car ferries at half the crud we put up with.

I'm French and can confirm that we are rather, erm, vocal :lol2: about things we don't like. Having said that though all our motorways have tolls and no-one bats an eyelid about that. I was really surprised when I moved to the UK nearly 20 years ago and found out motorways were free.

[Ethanedwards]

Hi Yolina,

Yep and being vocal seems to be the best strategy.

The M Ways are indeed free to the user but that kind of overlooks the money extracted from taxpayers to build them.

IIRC Motoring revenue (which is put into the General revenue 'pot'-since about 1935) is around 45 billion pounds year where the actual spend on roads is at max 10 billion. I recall reading those figures but haven't looked into more upto date numbers.

You would think that a net profit from motorists of over 35 billion a year would satisfy the Government...but no far from it.

Greed...sheer greed.

[Bibsy]

It;s not greed, it's taking from where you can get it. If we said that the take from roads is 45 billion and we spend ten, so let's stop spending the 35 billion extra on other things - what other things would you sacrifice?

[Ethanedwards]

Easy one,

Most foreign aid. there's 10 billion right there. Most legal aid.

I'd cap benefits at 75% of the average take home wage thats a lot lower than the proposed cap.

Wages cap at £40K (Max £2K a year expenses) for all MP's , civil servants. end the gravy train at taxpayers expense.

Initially fire 2000 MOD civil servants since they don't need to be employing more than 500 people.

Leave the EU - thats another 9 Billion +

Generally a VERY small lean state sector. Then I'd take the axe to local government.

A bloated state sector employing 47% of the workforce is a drain on the rest of the economyu.

[Bibsy]

Ah, you're bonkers.Okaaay...

[valmiki]

Leave the EU - thats another 9 Billion +

We might just see this one! Fingers-crossed

[Opifex]

I've somehow missed this thread so excuse me if I chip on everything at once

....... Existing exemption holders will be able to keep the exemption up to June 2015. Bugger!!

Haven't driven in London for years but maybe I should register just to keep the privilege for another 3 years.

Is it too much to hope that with less emphasis on tax/charge-breaks the manufacturers will have less incentive to have premium pricing for hybrids/EVs (see the Prius plug-in price in UK compared to elsewhere)?

Probably.

This might just be softening up for increased RFL charges of course. The amount taken on "road tax" is eaten into by concessions and reductions for low emission vehicles - at some point the only way to claw it back is to tax something else more, or more likely make the zero charge a tenner, the tenner charge 25, and so on.

I wish they would take road tax off entirely and get the money through fuel duty instead. That way the people who use the roads most pay the most.

Set up to relieve congestion (so they say - I think otherwise).

But it's now engineering out so called 'polluting vehicles'...which was not the stated purpose when it was set up.

That one always had me puzzled.

I'm French and can confirm that we are rather, erm, vocal :lol2: about things we don't like. Having said that though all our motorways have tolls and no-one bats an eyelid about that. I was really surprised when I moved to the UK nearly 20 years ago and found out motorways were free.

'vocal' - that's one word for it.

Using French motorways costs me about the same in tolls as the petrol cost - nearly £500/year - makes UK road tax look cheap. On the other hand it's very rare to find one that's congested. (Don't know what it's like near Paris - I always stay well clear.)

Ah, you're bonkers.Okaaay...

Can I suggest you stick to attacking the message not the messenger.

[Chris Dance]

On The London News last night it was stated that more cyclists are being killed or injured on London's roads. Boris wants new schemes to separate cyclists from traffic. This will cost millions; so to get some more cash in removing the concession charge from the hybrid and low emmission cars would bring in a tidy sum.

Great idea to separate cyclists from traffic, providing the cyclists helped pay for it in some way. The farther they are from me when I am driving the better.

[Yolina]

Using French motorways costs me about the same in tolls as the petrol cost - nearly £500/year - makes UK road tax look cheap. On the other hand it's very rare to find one that's congested. (Don't know what it's like near Paris - I always stay well clear.)

Oh yes, they do get congested, weekends and particularly at school holiday time - summer holiday the whole country tries to get to the Côte d'Azur, winter holiday the whole country tries to get to the Alps (invading *my* mountains :P ) or the Pyrénées. Lorries over 7.5T are banned from using motorways at certain times of the weekend, days before and after bank holidays and on some other dates to try and reduce congestion, there's also some extended restrictions for the Paris area but it can all be an absolute nightmare.

[Opifex]

We always leave France in mid-July so must have missed the worst of it. The only place I anticipate problems is around Lyon but even there we normally drive straight through the middle without a problem. When we cross the Channel to the UK the M20 always comes as a nasty shock.

[Yolina]

You might want "le calendrier du bison futé"... The current one is obviously for 2012. Good site for you to bookmark and check traffic if you're often in France anyway, and they even do the the site in English http://www.bison-fute.equipement.gouv.fr/en/traffic-forecasts-calendar-r106.html

[MLW2233]

This was always going to happen. When nobody really could get below 100 mg, then that was a resonable level. Now so many old 'dirtyish' cars are at 97-99 mg. At this rate ever car will soon be below 99!

The real economic theory problem is that governments set a level to encourage sound economic and environmental purchases. That is fine and as it should be. However, individuals who incurr serious capital charges have a resonable expectation to reap the benefits of their socially responsible choices over many years.

It is a bit unfair to then announce that such good actions are now redundant. Governments need taxes, and using taxes to change behaviour is the best way forward (remember lead free petrol that few bought until the tax was lowered?)

The government should announce that any such changes will have at least a 6-7 year period of stability, so that large capital purchases and choices can reflect this.