Avensis D4D Not Starting

[Ben565]

Hi All,

Car is a 2008 (58) Avensis 2.0 D4D, 93k miles, full main dealer history from new, has had a new engine fitted last year (approx 73k miles) underwarranty due to head gasket issue.

I have a problem with it not starting from cold, the engine turns over and fires ok but then immidiatly the revs drop and it dies, sometimes takes 2 or 3 attempts to get it going. When it does start the engine seems too lazy to get over it's own inertia until the turbo wakes up and then it's fine. I also notice a some white smoke at startup as the turbo kicks in and it revs up.

I do wait for the Glowplug light to go out before attempting to start, it starts fine in warm weather, the choke/fast idle does appear to be working (once I get it started) in cold weather.

I did take it to the dealers who found no fault with it, no error codes stored, injectors looked fine, although they were unable to start it from cold to replicate the problem.

Any idea's ? It's also got a flatspot at 3k rpm that wasent there before the engine was changed (dealer can't replicate that either) that does seem to ease off if you give it a good blast on the motorway, but does come back after pootling to work and starting issue persists. Just wondered if they were related.

So far I have a shortlist of potential suspects - EGR Valve, SCV Valve, Injectors, Turbo.

Hope someone can shed a bit of light on this.

[igormus]

inspect glow plugs -- if one or two faulty -- change them all fofur to have an equal effect;

inspect EGR

change fuel filter

[Ben565]

Thanks, will give that a try.

I've always relied on the dealer doing everything required so assumed at some point they would have replaced Fuel filter and glow plugs as part of normal serviceing ?

[igormus]

Thanks, will give that a try.

white smoke ---- the reason might be either EGR is clogged or late injction timing or glow plugs fault

one of three is yours

check and come back

Igor

[Mistermena]

I agree with Igor on this one. Change the fuel and check air filter and pipe. Glow plugs change and clean EGR b4 looking at the SCV. BG244 to clean out the injectors and pipes...

[Druid Boy]

White smoke starting from cold in the morning? thats mostly condensation, ie water vapour, a natural by product of combustion and not ususally anything to worry about. I bet it clears when the engine is warmed up. My bike instructor used to say 'white smoke = cold engine = cold driver's brain. Watch out.'

[Phil24RN]

Injectors or glow plugs id say

Regards phil

[Ben565]

Hi guys, sorry for the delayed response.

Checked the Glow plugs and all ok, resistance to ground is ok and they are getting 11v supply for 15sec after ignition on.

Cleaned the EGR valve out (that was really clogged up! certainly runs better now)

Put some BG244 in the tank this morning so will see how that goes

Got the Battery tested too and it was fine apparently 83% starting capacity

Air filter is a new one and airbox clean.

Still won't start properly from cold though.

I popped into a trusted independant garage for them to have a look and contrary to the main dealer they seem to think it's the injectors and recommend getting them tested on the bench, which sounds sensible. If nothing else it would eliminate them. I guess the only other things to try are the fuel filter and scv valves.

[igormus]

in case you have leaky injectors -- this might lead to starting up failure

normally all four injectors must be calibrated on the fuel stand. if they can not be recon then the onnly cure is fuel valve changing

regards / Igor

[Mistermena]

I'd wait now and see how the BG244 cleans out the injectors! Fuel filter change at this point for me would be a "Must do" and then look at the SCV valves not sure if this link might help...http://www.ebay.co.u...d=130816400429

[Ben565]

normally all four injectors must be calibrated on the fuel stand.

I wondered if the dealers had maybe c*cked something up when they replaced the engine, the flatspot issue only surfaced after they had replaced the engine, maybe the starting issue too although it was spring so I wouldnt have noticed. The ECU is meant to be programmed with which injector is in which hole.

Yeah prob gonna be after xmas now anyway for getting the injectors tested so see how the BG244 goes. Don't quite understand how the fuel filter would stop it starting? Flatspot issue yes if it's clogged then it would restrict fuel flow but cold start?

[Ben565]

**Update**

Cold Start and Flatspot issues

I bought one of those OBDii readers and the Torque app for Android, only had a couple of trial runs but interestingly whenever the flatspot occurs (around 3k rpm) the fuel rail pressure drops about 500 psi before coming back up again. Most it's recorded so far is 24,660 psi at about 4,000 rpm, no idea what it should be recording though.

Still running the BG244 through, just under half a tank to go, so far hasn't resolved any issues.

Checked my service records and fuel filter was replaced 10k miles ago, assuming we can trust the main dealer to have actually done it? I would have thought it should be ok.

[Mistermena]

Does the fuel filter look newish? I'd change it anyway!... You can pick up genuine Toyota fuel filters off eBay for about a fiver...

[Ben565]

Havent physically checked it to be fair, but your right for the sake of a fiver might as well change it out and be sure it's done.

[Phil01]

4x glow plugs reqd.

How did you check your glow plug resistance, did you remove the long bus bar because if you did not then you would still get a correct resistance reading if one was ok and the rest were fcuked.

[Makattack]

Hi, has anyone used glow plugs from Japanparts or nipppart? And are they any good?

[Mornachew]

Any update on this??

[Ben565]

Sorry for the late reply to this.

Starting problem seems to have resolved itself, maybe BG244 is what did the trick, cleaned some crud out. Didnt notice an improvement right away but cold start problem cleared up soon after running a tankfull through.

Still have the flat spot issue, filter replaced and still no good.

Can't get it to do it all the time which is prob why the dealership can't find a problem, no fault codes or anything just a flatspot around 3k rpm, flippin dangerous when you pull out to overtake and it suddenly goes flat and loses power. I bought a OBDII dongle and logged the ECU data, only thing I noticed was the Fuel Pressure crapped out around 3k rpm

I read somewhere that if the ECU is updated to the latest version then a mod needs to be made to the SCV valves? strange coincidence this problem only occurred after the new engine was fitted. I wondered if they flashed the new engine to the latest software as standard practise and then forgot to upgrade the scv valves. Mayybe that mod only applies to older models ?

[power]

HI mate mine was the same problem taken the tempearture sensor off, later pressure test was the headgasket

[Ben565]

I'll check the temp sensor, not ruling it out but would be surprised if it was the head gasket on a brand new engine.

[Ben565]

Some data from the OBDII reader. Shows the fuel pressure craps out just after 2500rpm. maybe that's normal? not an expert.

[Ben565]

Coolant and intake temp sensors check out OK.

Weirdly now the weather has warmed up the flat spot has all but gone. Not sure why that would happen?

[oprah]

Hi, i do not know how to post an issue , so apparently I have to use yours to solicit for response for own.

I have an avensis 1999 model, for last 4 weeks I have been trying to start it but to no avail. the car will start but it does not pick momentum as in it dies out almost immediately after starting. please I need to Identify the problem . I need your help.

[Ben565]

Hi,

Just thought I would close this thread. I returned to the main dealer with this flatspot isse, they cleaned the EGR valve and things are much improved, still hesitates occasionally around 3k rpm but that could just be the variable valve lift or cams switching over onto a different profile?.

I did clean the EGR valve myself previously and it looked ok but obviously the techs at the main dealer did a better job of it. The difference it made is quite noticable, this really ought to be part of routine servicing.

Thanks for all the help and info

[Devon Aygo]

The fault you describe of poor starting and flat spots corresponds to a possible faulty suction control valve, a known issue and the 2.0 & 2.2 d4d engines.

When the valve is faulty it starts to get stuck intermittently, when you switch the engine off your engine ecu tells the valve to close stopping fuel to the engine, when you crank the engine to start the car the engine ecu tells the valve to open, if it is faulty this is sometimes too slow to allow the engine to start correctly the first time causing excessive cranking and stalling.

Once started the engine ecu uses the valve to control fuel pressure into the injectors, a faulty valve which is sticking causes flat spots when higher fuel pressure is required during acceleration.

Using your OBD tool watch the target fuel pressure compared to actual fuel pressure whilst driving. when you accelerate the target pressure will jump up and the actual should quickly follow it up to a near identical figure, if the actual pressure is slow to rise and remains significantly lower than the target figure you have either a blocked fuel filter or a faulty suction control valve.

Early 2.0 cam belt engines have a modified set of valves available to fix

Later 2.0 & 2.2 chain engines have a modified valve and need a engine ecu software update to fix.