Yaris 2003 Randomly Misfiring

[jamielm]

First off, the title in this is incorrect (silly me). The car is not misfiring, but takes significantly more time to fire up on occasions.

Hi there, I have this post on another forum as well. I hope this doesn't offend anyone (if it does then please let me know), I just want to try and get as much feedback as possible, as well as introducing myself to others as a new Toyota owner! :-)

I recently bought a 2003 Toyota Yaris from a second hand dealership (relatively cheaply at £2400), and thought that there had to be a catch (I'm not very trusting of dealerships as it is). I had taken the car on a quick test drive just before buying it, and fired it up a few times to ensure that it worked correctly. After buying the car, it was seriously low on petrol and was told by the dealership to go to a local Sainsbury's and get it filled up. On the drive there, the car ran out of Petrol and I had to get someone else to put some in the car for me to get to the station and fill up.

Just after this I noticed that on random occasions, when trying to start the car up it would take a noticeably longer time to successfully fire up, whereas sometimes would fire up absolutely no problem. The issue may not be related to running out of petrol, but I believe it to be most probably tied to it. Just to be sure I put some Redex Fuel Additive in the tank, to try and get the Fuel Injectors clean (just in case any crud was sucked from the tank into the Injectors). I also cleaned the MAF sensor, just in case.

As I said, sometimes it fires up first time without issue, but sometimes it does take much longer. There also doesn't seem to be a correlation with performing a cold-start or a hot-start. I can drive for 30 miles, turn the engine off and restart it 2 minutes later only for it to struggle a bit more. On the other hand I can try and start it up first thing on a morning and it starts right up.

I'm not saying that it takes a long time (always 20 seconds or under) to fire up, but I was just wondering if anyone had any theories on why, sometimes, it takes quite a bit longer.

Apologies for rabbiting, I didn't know how much detail to go into

Thanks very much,

Jamie.

One more thing, once it gets started there are absolutely no issues with the car. Thanks again.

[t-spiritpete]

I think a moderator should remove the above reply asap.

Thanks,

Pete.

SEE FOLLOWING POST :)

[Red Yaris 54]

The post along with many other spam posts has been removed

[avensisd4d786]

any history of last service?

when were spark plugs last changed?

Could be fuel filter?

or could be weak Battery.

[jamielm]

any history of last service?

when were spark plugs last changed?

Could be fuel filter?

or could be weak battery.

Hi there,

I did just go to a local store and got my Battery tested. They said that it was not holding it's charge and have had it replaced.

I've been firing it up a few times since then and it seems like it's still cranking over around 5-6 times if I turn the key from off -> ignite in one go. However, it seems that if I turn my key so that the electrics all power on, and then turn it the rest of the way to start the car then it does it within 1-2 cranks.

The last full service was performed mid 2010, so they will be a year and a half old, if this is any help?

Thanks very much for your help,

Jamie.

[avensisd4d786]

what sort of mileage has it done since then? were the spark plugs changed at that particular service?

any chance that you can get a video up when starting the car. you will get more response.

[Madasafish]

Fuel filter not changed?Oil filter ditto

Low oil pressure

Low fuel pressure

Failing plugs

Failing coil pack

etc etc..

[jamielm]

Hi there, I'm hoping that this comes through correctly as I'm on my phone.

Upon looking at the Service Record, it shows that the last full service was performed in October of 2011, but the last time the Spark Plugs were replaced was in mid-2009. I'm not sure about the frequency of having them replaced, but they do seem pretty old.

I'll try and get a video of it occurring when trying to start the car immediately, and another showing me try to start the car when the electric have been activated.

Madasafish, would these items be usually addressed in a full service? According to my local Toyota dealers, the Fuel Filter is placed in the tank, and they have 'never' had to replace the tank/filter.

I hope this adds a little more information,

Cheers,

Jamie.

[jamielm]

Apologies, I forgot to mention the mileage...

When the Spark Plugs were last changed the car was at approximately 32000 miles, and now 3 1/2 years on it only has 47000 miles.

As I say, I know that there has been very little mileage on this car, but the spark plugs do seem to be pretty old.

Thanks again,

Jamie.

[Geoff Peace]

First off, the title in this is incorrect (silly me). The car is not misfiring, but takes significantly more time to fire up on occasions.

Hi there, I have this post on another forum as well. I hope this doesn't offend anyone (if it does then please let me know), I just want to try and get as much feedback as possible, as well as introducing myself to others as a new Toyota owner! :-)

I recently bought a 2003 Toyota Yaris from a second hand dealership (relatively cheaply at £2400), and thought that there had to be a catch (I'm not very trusting of dealerships as it is). I had taken the car on a quick test drive just before buying it, and fired it up a few times to ensure that it worked correctly. After buying the car, it was seriously low on petrol and was told by the dealership to go to a local Sainsbury's and get it filled up. On the drive there, the car ran out of Petrol and I had to get someone else to put some in the car for me to get to the station and fill up.

Just after this I noticed that on random occasions, when trying to start the car up it would take a noticeably longer time to successfully fire up, whereas sometimes would fire up absolutely no problem. The issue may not be related to running out of petrol, but I believe it to be most probably tied to it. Just to be sure I put some Redex Fuel Additive in the tank, to try and get the Fuel Injectors clean (just in case any crud was sucked from the tank into the Injectors). I also cleaned the MAF sensor, just in case.

As I said, sometimes it fires up first time without issue, but sometimes it does take much longer. There also doesn't seem to be a correlation with performing a cold-start or a hot-start. I can drive for 30 miles, turn the engine off and restart it 2 minutes later only for it to struggle a bit more. On the other hand I can try and start it up first thing on a morning and it starts right up.

I'm not saying that it takes a long time (always 20 seconds or under) to fire up, but I was just wondering if anyone had any theories on why, sometimes, it takes quite a bit longer.

Apologies for rabbiting, I didn't know how much detail to go into

Thanks very much,

Jamie.

One more thing, once it gets started there are absolutely no issues with the car. Thanks again.

When you say you recently bought a Yaris. How recently? If under six months take it back to the selling dealer. Under current law any fault which materialises in under six months from the date of purchase is the responsibility of the seller. If longer than six months then a first step would be to have the fault codes read.

Regards Geoff Peace.

[jamielm]

Hi Geoff,

I only bought the Yaris on the 21st December.

I believed that because I had driven away with it and let it run out of petrol that it would be considered my fault. I also felt that if a full service would rectify the issue, then why not give that a shot?

I'd be willing to get a full service done as it is, but could the dealer not just say that it's something that I/garage have done?

Kind regards,

Jamie.

[Cyker]

It's hard to say... my old petrol Fiesta was like that in winter, i.e. if I turned it straight from off to III it would seem like it was struggling and take a few more cranks to start up than I'd expected.

According to the Fiesta's handbook, I was supposed to set it to position 2 and pause to give the fuel pump a chance to fully pressurize before depressing the clutch and turning the key the rest of the way to III to actually start the engine.

It always started no problem when I did that, kinda like how you're finding.

Funnily enough, that pre-training came in handy when I got this diesel Yaris, since I have to do the same thing (Except the pause is for the glow plugs and not the fuel pump )

I do wonder if there might be a tiny bit of air or something trapped somewhere from when it ran out of fuel tho'...

[jamielm]

Hi there Cyker, thank you very much for the advice.

I seem to have got it to a 'relatively' stable condition when I do this. It always seems to take 3-4 cranks no matter what I do. I'm hoping that the new Spark Plugs should rectify this (it seemed to make a difference on my old Mégane). I do believe that there may be a little bit of air, or some crud that got sucked into the Fuel Injectors but am hoping that a long bout of this Redex stuff will make a difference.

As I said, I'm hoping that I can continue to test this and post back. 3-5 cranks consistently is better than the occasional 1/2 cranks followed by 8/9.

When the ignition is turned into the II position, does this invoke the Fuel Pump which would pressurise the fuel? Apologies for all of the questions, I'm relatively new to looking after a nice car.

Jamie.

EDIT: I certainly do hope that it isn't an issue with the Fuel Filter or Fuel Pump. According to Toyota, they are both housed in the Fuel Tank. Would surely make a job of replacing them practically impossible.

Edited December 28, 2012 by jamielm

[jamielm]

Well I went and fitted 4 new Spark Plugs today and the issue still seems to be persisting. It takes around 5 turn overs before successfully firing up.

So that's the Battery and Spark Plugs ruled out. As I said, I hope that the issue does not lie in the Fuel Pump/Fuel Filter as these cannot be replaced.

Jamie.

[avensisd4d786]

Well I went and fitted 4 new Spark Plugs today and the issue still seems to be persisting. It takes around 5 turn overs before successfully firing up.

So that's the Battery and Spark Plugs ruled out. As I said, I hope that the issue does not lie in the Fuel Pump/Fuel Filter as these cannot be replaced.

Jamie.

#

OK. I suggest you get a video up.

[jamielm]

I will do. I was just wondering, whilst I have been testing this, I have had to turn the engine on and off serveral times, in a relatively short period of time.

Could this attribute to the problem? And if so, could it be rectified by stopping doing this and driving normally?

I only ask because I saw that this is not good for relatively modern fuel injected systems?

I'll try and get a video up tonight, thanks very much avensisd4d786. :-)

[Geoff Peace]

Hi Geoff,

I only bought the Yaris on the 21st December.

I believed that because I had driven away with it and let it run out of petrol that it would be considered my fault. I also felt that if a full service would rectify the issue, then why not give that a shot?

I'd be willing to get a full service done as it is, but could the dealer not just say that it's something that I/garage have done?

Kind regards,

Jamie.

Go to the website of Honest John. www. honestjohn.co.uk Plenty of information there on your legal rights. As you only bought it a few days ago it is the responsibility of the selling dealer, so that is where you go first and insist the fault is rectified. Any hesitation, Trading Standards!

Regards Geoff Peace.

[HowardL]

The plugs in mine were changed in 2007 at 34400 miles

It's now at 56000 miles, I'm not having any probs but thinking of changing them soonish.

[jamielm]

Thanks Geoff, I'll definitely look into that.

Meanwhile, I was considering if it was indeed possible to replace the Fuel Filter, which is housed in the Fuel Tank. I wasn't sure if this would be possible, and my local RMB Toyota said that they had never done this before.

If, when I take it back into the garage, it is found to be an issue with the Filter, could this part be replaced, and if so, how?

Or could it perhaps be just cleaned, and no need for a replacement to be put in? My car is a Yaris Colour Coll. Vvti 5 Door Hatchback (1299cc, 2003). After reading around I am a little confused... Nowhere online seems to sell Fuel Filters for my particular model. Do they come as part of the Fuel Pump/Fuel Gauge Sender Unit, or art they actually engrained in the Tank? As I said, I'm still a little fuzzy. Thanks in advance for any information.

Thanks very much for your help everyone, it's been much appreciated.

Jamie.

[HowardL]

I have a Haynes, as you may know the filter is housed in the tank,

My yaris is a '53 mk 1,

the combined fuel pump and gauge sender is located in the top face of the tank under the back seat,

through an access cover,

according to the haynes it can all be liffted out...carefully,

I'm no way a mechanic, but I doubt it's the culprit of your prob.

I would look at the injectors...get them checked.

[jamielm]

Hi Howard,

I've got the Haynes Manual as well, and thought that it was 'iffy that no mention was made of the Fuel Filter. I've tried to have a look everywhere online and can't seem to find any available anywhere. As I said before, I've been putting in Redex with every tank that I get, and it didn't appear to be making a difference.

I just rang up RMB Toyota and they said that the Fuel Gauge Sender Unit & Fuel Pump comes in an all-in-one package and includes a Filter in it. Again, I could be talking to a member of staff that has no idea, but I thought that it would make sense. I'm taking the car into the garage next week so I will get the Injectors & Fuel Gauge Sender Unit / Fuel Pump / Fuel Filter and let me know if there's any issues.

I'm convinced that it will be one of them that is causing the intermittent start up issues.

Thanks again for your help Howard.

Jamie.

[Geoff Peace]

Thanks Geoff, I'll definitely look into that.

Meanwhile, I was considering if it was indeed possible to replace the Fuel Filter, which is housed in the Fuel Tank. I wasn't sure if this would be possible, and my local RMB Toyota said that they had never done this before.

If, when I take it back into the garage, it is found to be an issue with the Filter, could this part be replaced, and if so, how?

Or could it perhaps be just cleaned, and no need for a replacement to be put in? My car is a Yaris Colour Coll. Vvti 5 Door Hatchback (1299cc, 2003). After reading around I am a little confused... Nowhere online seems to sell Fuel Filters for my particular model. Do they come as part of the Fuel Pump/Fuel Gauge Sender Unit, or art they actually engrained in the Tank? As I said, I'm still a little fuzzy. Thanks in advance for any information.

Thanks very much for your help everyone, it's been much appreciated.

Jamie.

the filter on the fuel pump is not a service item. It is not so much a filter as a strainer, it looks like a tea bag. designed to prevent any debris from the tank getting into the pump. However, I have to advise you again to return the car to the selling dealer. If you or anyone else tries to rectify the fault, the weaker your legal case becomes.

Regards Geoff Peace.

[mark999]

A few years ago Toyota sold me a fuel filter for my 1.0gs which as the above posts looks like a strainer. My local garage declined to change it when we found out it was located in the tank.