Water Pump Faliure

[nellsey]

My 2008 Prius is in having the recall work done, water pump and something on the steering(?).

They have just called to say the water pump on the engine side need replacing at close to £300(gulp).

The car has only done 38k.....is it me or is this far too soon for this to go?

It is only just out of the warranty as I bought it from a main dealer last October

[Chris Dance]

Has the recall on the water pump had anything to do with its early failure? 38,000 miles is a low mileage for the pump to fail in my opinion. My son did almost 70,000 miles in his 57 plate Gen 2. with no problems. I would query with your dealer what the water pump recall was all about and why pump failed at this low mileage. Let us know the outcome.

[nellsey]

Has the recall on the water pump had anything to do with its early failure? 38,000 miles is a low mileage for the pump to fail in my opinion. My son did almost 70,000 miles in his 57 plate Gen 2. with no problems. I would query with your dealer what the water pump recall was all about and why pump failed at this low mileage. Let us know the outcome.

There are two water pumps apparently, and the recall is for the water pump on the Hybrid side.

It is the engine water pump that has failed. It does seem odd for them to replace one and the other is faulty.

[wass]

Well....what a coincidence that they should find that fault at precisely the same time as they replaced the hybrid pump!. A hardened cynic might think that they already replaced the wrong pump by mistake and are after recouping their costs :) No doubt somebody in the trade would disagree with this logic however 'coincidental' things may appear

[Chris Dance]

I wonder how they found out the engine water pump was faulty?? I would query it with your dealer but you cannot ignore the problem as you do not want a break down. Is your dealer in Reading?

[cootuk]

It's possible that they noticed a slight weep or staining (if it's leaking) when they had the car up on ramps.

I believe ours are electrically driven rather than by belt, so i would ask why they think it needs replacing.

Depending when your service was done, I would ask that dealer why they didn't spot it, and double check whether it would have been covered by the warranty.

[timberwolf]

Looking in a repair manual for the Gen 2 (NHW20),

Engine Coolant pump is belt driven (Serpentine).

Transaxle/Inverter coolant pump is electric.

I think one of the improvements for the Gen 3 was an electric pump for the Engine Coolant pump.

[nellsey]

I have asked the Dealer(Jemca) not to change the pump yet as there is another issue that needs dealing with too. I was told the pump was "leaking badly" and had been for a while. The dealer did a full service on the car in April....I wonder if it was leaking then?

The other issue is, occasionally when braking lightly the traction/stabilty control activates(light on dash) for a second and the brakes "shudder" which is quite disconcerting. It has been doing this for about 8 months and getting more often. I did mention this to the dealer in the April service. They informed me it needed to happen when a tech was driving it to investigate further under warranty. I asked for it to be put on record.

During the recall work I mentioned this traction/stability problem again and they said they would have a look to see if there were any fault codes(none found). The tech took it out for a drive and it actually happened to him and they agreed this needs looking into further.

The dealer is looking to me to cover costs on both repairs which I can ill afford, and seems somewhat unfair as both these issues started during the warranty period.

I have asked the dealer to contact Toyota in the hope they will help.

[ian rooke]

Hi Don't hold your breath Toyota is more about making money than customer service nowadays

[pmf]

Re your braking issue, if its during very light braking this is as far as i understand when regen braking is being utilised.

I have found the traction control to be very sensitive in the Prius Gen 2. Does it occur on the same area of road. There is a couple of spots where I drive even in good conditions where I experience the traction control kick in momentarily. It occurs for example when I'm coasting usually down a slight decline and just very gently braking, the car goes over a couple of drain covers and its enough for the traction control to kick in. My speed is below 30mph. It happens occasionally but only when Im lightly braking and if I basically cross a certain part of that road. I am happy that its just a combination of conditions. I wouldn't describe it as juddering when it kicks in, but other than the light on dashboard i do feel that the braking changes momentarily. I have noticed this on other roads very occasionally but under similar conditions. It seems to be if the road surface changes in some way under very light braking the traction control can be momentarily activated by that change affecting the loading on the front wheels.

I also do a lot of country road driving and again when coasting and very lightly braking ive found similar caused by some mud etc, traction control kicking in just for a second or so and my experience of driving our other car and previous cars is that I wouldn't have normally expected the traction control to have kicked in or noticed it in such conditions and speed. It seems to if very lightly braking and something changes on the road surface this can cause traction control to kick in.

if I recall correctly did the GEN 3 not have a recall for over sensitive traction control and I think I recall discussion from Gen 2 owners that the traction control was quite sensitive on theirs but obviously not to the extent of the initial GEN 3's. Pedrhaps others can recall better.

It may be worth noting when this happens, where you are and the conditions at the time to assist diagnosing, although with the mechanic noticing it and feeling it was unusual this may indicate a fault and definately worth further investigation, brakes aren't something you want to have any doubts over.

[nellsey]

Re your braking issue, if its during very light braking this is as far as i understand when regen braking is being utilised.

I have found the traction control to be very sensitive in the Prius Gen 2. Does it occur on the same area of road. There is a couple of spots where I drive even in good conditions where I experience the traction control kick in momentarily. It occurs for example when I'm coasting usually down a slight decline and just very gently braking, the car goes over a couple of drain covers and its enough for the traction control to kick in. My speed is below 30mph. It happens occasionally but only when Im lightly braking and if I basically cross a certain part of that road. I am happy that its just a combination of conditions. I wouldn't describe it as juddering when it kicks in, but other than the light on dashboard i do feel that the braking changes momentarily. I have noticed this on other roads very occasionally but under similar conditions. It seems to be if the road surface changes in some way under very light braking the traction control can be momentarily activated by that change affecting the loading on the front wheels.

I also do a lot of country road driving and again when coasting and very lightly braking ive found similar caused by some mud etc, traction control kicking in just for a second or so and my experience of driving our other car and previous cars is that I wouldn't have normally expected the traction control to have kicked in or noticed it in such conditions and speed. It seems to if very lightly braking and something changes on the road surface this can cause traction control to kick in.

if I recall correctly did the GEN 3 not have a recall for over sensitive traction control and I think I recall discussion from Gen 2 owners that the traction control was quite sensitive on theirs but obviously not to the extent of the initial GEN 3's. Pedrhaps others can recall better.

It may be worth noting when this happens, where you are and the conditions at the time to assist diagnosing, although with the mechanic noticing it and feeling it was unusual this may indicate a fault and definately worth further investigation, brakes aren't something you want to have any doubts over.

Thanks pmf, interesting that you have similar.

The difference being for me was the braking issue was not there for the first 5 months. It is always under light braking but seems to happen at any time.

When I say "shudder" it might be just the vibration of the stability/traction control kicking in. Still a bit unnerving when it suddenly kicks in when you are least expecting it. The wife is starting to get worried when driving it because it is happening more and more regularly.

[timberwolf]

I've noticed the same thing on my Prius as pmf, but I think your shudder is something else as I also do not get any shudder.

When I go over a man-hole cover whilst braking lightly (i.e. I think the braking is most likely all regenerative and little or no friction), the feeling is that when I go over the man-hole cover whilst lightly braking, the braking force "lets go" and the car feels "floaty" for a fraction of a second (and I think the wavy line symbol lights on the dash very briefly but it is usually not for long enough that I don't have time to see what light it was that flashed, I'm also usually more occupied with what could be in front of me) before the friction brakes are applied. My car has always done this from new.

[pmf]

"the braking force "lets go" and the car feels "floaty" for a fraction of a second"

Timberwolf, thanks for that, its exactly what I was trying to describe.

[steverally]

I've noticed the same thing on my Prius as pmf, but I think your shudder is something else as I also do not get any shudder.

When I go over a man-hole cover whilst braking lightly (i.e. I think the braking is most likely all regenerative and little or no friction), the feeling is that when I go over the man-hole cover whilst lightly braking, the braking force "lets go" and the car feels "floaty" for a fraction of a second (and I think the wavy line symbol lights on the dash very briefly but it is usually not for long enough that I don't have time to see what light it was that flashed, I'm also usually more occupied with what could be in front of me) before the friction brakes are applied. My car has always done this from new.

My Prius was the same, at one particular junction where the road is potholed, the symptoms were as described by Timberwolf. For the record I have a similar experience now with my Lexus CT200h - so put it down to how the hybrid braking system works.

[nellsey]

"the braking force "lets go" and the car feels "floaty" for a fraction of a second"

Timberwolf, thanks for that, its exactly what I was trying to describe.

Definitely different to my "shudder"

My brakes are coming on and off(for maybe 1-2 seconds) are causing my problems. It is not that much force but enough to behave like a shudder.

I am waiting for a response from Toyota who were advised of the pump and brake issues today.

Thanks for the replies

[nellsey]

Well, I finally got fed up with waiting for a response from the dealer and went in there to find out what was happening.

Would you believe they had done nothing and could barely remember anything about it. They had made no notes on the system despite my repeated requests previously. Not unsurprisingly, I did not take long to jog there memory!

All apologies, lots of recalls,blah,blah.

They will be contacting CS on Monday and will phone me immediately.

I am sure n extra month going by is not going to help me.

I really hope Toyota CS are better than the dealer!

[thedeanobeano]

My old gen 2 used to skitter over bumps and drain covers - the effect was like it used to seem to speed up over them. I put this down to the hybrid braking and having tyres at higher pressure.

My gen 3 does still do it, but it is far less pronounced - even with the same tyre pressures.

[nellsey]

I have been offered a 35% discount on the water pump. Failure at 38K.... I was expecting far more

On the braking problem(which was logged during warranty) there was no input other than they will try to find the problem, at my cost I assume, and then get in touch with CS to see if they will contribute.

To say I am less than impressed would be an under statement.

I think I will contact CS myself as I am sure the dealer did not put much effort in on my behalf.

Anybody got any ideas?

[LADY PRIUS]

Reply to Nellsey

Posted 05 February 2013 - 04:58 PM

I have been offered a 35% discount on the water pump. Failure at 38K.... I was expecting far more

On the braking problem(which was logged during warranty) there was no input other than they will try to find the problem, at my cost I assume, and then get in touch with CS to see if they will contribute.

To say I am less than impressed would be an under statement.

I think I will contact CS myself as I am sure the dealer did not put much effort in on my behalf.

Anybody got any ideas?

reply from Lady Prius

I have read your thread with interest and just joined as a member. Have owned my Prius for under 12 months and some of my experiences mirror yours – specifically water pump failure for around £300 and there was something wrong with the brakes too. I am dealing with the matter presently and do not know the outcome yet in order to report back on this forum, but it could be extremely interesting, and I will do soon I hope. You said you have taken your Prius to a Jemca dealership – there are many around the UK. May I please ask which Jemca you took your car to? Many thanks.

[cootuk]

I wonder if your braking problem could be warped discs causing a shudder?

Should be fairly easy for any garage to check them.

[Hicardo]

Or broken / cracked abs rings

[nellsey]

I have finally got round to contacting CS and had an interesting chat with them.

CS agree that a water pump failure at 37k is premature and they would expect it to last at least 60k. They did mention that it was 4 years old and out of warranty and any offer from them be a "goodwill" contribution. It appears that CS told Jemca Reading that they would match any offer the garage would make towards the replacement of the WP, up to 100%. Kind of passing the buck a little as the garage will not give too much off the labour even if the vehicle has been maintained there.

On the stability/braking problem - CS have assured me this problem has not been reported to them at all. I assume I am being naive when I expect a dealer to tell the truth? After all, the problem was first reported to them a year ago, at least three times since and with me asking it to be logged each time. That is along with their tech experiencing the fault and admitting there was a problem!

The dealership has serviced and maintained my car since purchase and to date have done a good job. Their warranty side however is absolute shambles. I will be taking all this up with the lady concerned and then with her bosses.

Last time I get the dealer to speak to CS for me!