2Nd Gear Crunching On Rav 4 4.3

[stevedale5]

Hi

Just wondering if anybody else has had this problem with 2nd gear crunching when cold the only way to easy the problem is a slow gear change or in my case double the clutch(old hgv gear change style) we have 2 of the 4.3 diesels manual gearbox 65,000 miles and 78,000 miles that do it, is it a common problem.

I have changed the gearbox oil putting in SX75W90 GL5 semi synthethic but this didn't change it, is there any retro warranty on this if it is 2nd gear syncro that is failing or could it be a better gear oil that is required.

Anchorman have you any thoughts on this?

Regards Steve

[NMaria]

These boxes can be a bit grumpy when cold, Steve (and 1st to 2nd can be notchy even when warm). They like a leisurely approach when they have just woken up!

[Big Kev]

Have you tried a forum search on this, Steve? There are by memory two things.....some piece of expensive kit to cure from Toyota Parts People (cannot recall any useful names.....one of them spends so much time abroad he should get a tax rebate.....) and also an adjustment to the gear linkage cables.......all this from an approaching 60 year auld memory.....trust it at your peril, mate...!!!!

Big Kev

[Mistermena]

I had the same issues with my Avensis T-180 6 speed box. These trans need a straight 75w grade oil and the best out there is Silkolen Pro SRG double ester racing lube. I don't get the crunch anymore and it goes into gear now when cold...

http://www.opieoils....g-gear-oil.aspx

http://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-68902-fuchs-titan-race-srg-75-full-ester-synthetic-racing-gear-oil.aspx

Fuchs and Silkolen are one and the same...

[Big Kev]

I had the same issues with my Avensis T-180 6 speed box. These trans need a straight 75w grade oil and the best out there is Silkolen Pro SRG double ester racing lube. I don't get the crunch anymore and it goes into gear now when cold...

http://www.opieoils....g-gear-oil.aspx

http://www.opieoils....g-gear-oil.aspx

Fuchs and Silkolen are one and the same...

Are you swearing at your shampoo in the Gaelic there, Timster min.....?

[Mistermena]

I had the same issues with my Avensis T-180 6 speed box. These trans need a straight 75w grade oil and the best out there is Silkolen Pro SRG double ester racing lube. I don't get the crunch anymore and it goes into gear now when cold...

http://www.opieoils....g-gear-oil.aspx

http://www.opieoils....g-gear-oil.aspx

Fuchs and Silkolen are one and the same...

Are you swearing at your shampoo in the Gaelic there, Timster min.....?

Lmao!... I think I was an all my mate :lol2: :P

[Tech01]

Steve,

Taff is on the right track . . . Move away from anything xxxx90 oil, and use either straight 75 (75W75), or alternatively a 75W80, which is easy to source. Change to this before investigating anything else.

Chris

[silly sausage]

I've never driven a 4.3 that hasn't had some degree of 'baulkiness'.

[CharlieFarlie]

The change into second is best done early when revs are low. They are a wee bit lumpy.. But once used to are no bother at all..

There is an updated improved gear linkage that sits on top of the gearbox (From memory) and I believe has better bushing (Rubber ) that is supposed to help..

My one after a clutch change is now near perfect.. The dealer did have two goes at setting up the linkage though before it was near perfect as it is now. I think Adjustment is what makes one car better than say another. So would recommend some fine adjustment before doing anything else as this may just save a few quid.

After adjustment I never did bother with that improved linkage as its just fine..

[anchorman]

There is no doubt the newer ones are much better - I think by about late 2007 they had got the rubber mounted cable bracket which gives them less of a notchy feel. TBH, you can try adjusting the cables and you must only use a straight 75 oil but you might not get it where you would like it. Even the very new ones baulk now and again.

I know what you mean though, every now and again they catch the teeth as you pull them through.

[DjRav]

I've never driven a 4.3 that hasn't had some degree of 'baulkiness'.

Try mine then, it's always been perfect hot or cold. In fact one of the best gear changes of any car I've had!

I think Anchs might be on to something, perhaps it's only early 4.3's?

Mines a 57 plate and is easy from 1st-2nd as some have suffered and all other changes as well.

Dave

[stevedale5]

Hi

Thanks everybody for your views on this I will check the adjustment on the cables and probably go for the sae 75 gear oil change.

Steve

[anchorman]

I have only ever found genuine Toyota oil but I believe somebody else does it now. I personally wouldn't try one of these 75 auto transmission oils.

[hedleyf]

I can,t work out Toyotas view on gear oil as they use in service a GL4 / GL5 oil, that's what's on the tin, now when I went to school a GL 5 and a GL4 were different oils for different jobs, gl4 was not a hypoid oil so could not be used in diffs, and a gl5 oil being a hypoid diff oil normally would not be used in a gearbox , the normal gl5 destroys baulk rings,synchros, they are NOT soft metal compatible due to the high pressure additives, I would think about using a gl4 synthetic 75 w.

[Tech01]

I can,t work out Toyotas view on gear oil as they use in service a GL4 / GL5 oil, that's what's on the tin, now when I went to school a GL 5 and a GL4 were different oils for different jobs, gl4 was not a hypoid oil so could not be used in diffs, and a gl5 oil being a hypoid diff oil normally would not be used in a gearbox , the normal gl5 destroys baulk rings,synchros, they are NOT soft metal compatible due to the high pressure additives, I would think about using a gl4 synthetic 75 w.

Interesting. Does anyone have any more information on this? The RAV4 gearbox, being a "hypoid transaxle", might this not need an oil with hypoid qualities?

[anchorman]

The specification for the oil is pinned in the tech data sheets and sure enough, it calls for a straight 75W oil of GL4 grade. There is no specified service life for this oil, only that it is checked on service (that may have changed recently, I thought I read 60k somewhere) and it is expensive. Kingo will post 1 litre bottles (you conveniently need 2.1l!) but it is expensive - more than a tenner plus VAT from memory. OK, why not a GL5 then? Because the hypoid spiral bevel gear is in the transfer box which does require an EP GL5 oil.

[hedleyf]

I don,t think it uses a bevel crown wheel like a rear diff would but like most transaxles uses a helical cut gear diff, these look like straight cut gears at a 45 degree slant, I think you can use gl4 in a low torque hypoid transaxle, The concern is using gl5 oils ,decided to have a nose on the net and came up with this which may or may not be of interest to you, interestingly it shows a worn baulk ring from a Toyota using gl5 it's interesting reading, Google , gear oil gl4 vs gl5 , top of page is a PDF, the difference between gl4 and gl5 .

[stevedale5]

Hi

Just an update I have emailed Opie Oils about Fuchs/Silkolene sae75W and according to Opie Oils Fuchs have no recommended gear oil for the Rav4 but they recommend Castrol Syntrans Fe 75W fully synthetic GL4.But according to there website it is only available if you buy 55 cases !!!! to order.

Anybody know were you can get say 5 Ltrs of Syntrans 75W maybe a Toyota dealer or Kingo can you supply Syntrans 75W any ideas or thoughts on this.

Thanks Anchs for the tech data on using GL4 instead of the GL5 that tells me I must change to GL4 75W but with cost implication of 2 vehicles I need to do it once after changing it just recently with GL5 75W90.

Steve

[hedleyf]

Hi,

Toyota do a MT (manual transmission) gear oil in 1 litre size, this is what I use for some jobs in the w/ shop,it's called, LV MT 75 gear oil, and Is gl4 , this is enhanced selector lubricant which is to be used in all MMT gearboxes as well but you can bet your bottom dollar most garages stick the service oil in, more concerned with bonus than getting the job right.

[hedleyf]

Anchorman,

The transfer uses a separate oil by what I remember,that's gl5 ,can,t picture it on the 4.3 but can on the 4.2 as I have a short socket to undo the hard to access drain bung.

[stevedale5]

Thanks for the info Hedleyf you have answered some of my queries on the gearoil I will google that site.

Steve

[anchorman]

Steve.

It will be a cow to change gear on a frosty morning with 75W/90 in. I would get it out - you won't do the cables synchros much good.

Hedley

The instructions for changing the gear oils are pinned. Here is a shortcut;

http://www.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=137298#entry1217185

[stevedale5]

Hi

Just an up date changed gear oil on the two Rav's for Toyota LV 75W MT GL4 gear oil what an improvement normal service is resumed no more crunching the syncro, won't be using the comma sx 75w90 GL5 as recommended by there lube chart again on the Rav's, thanks to everyone for there input still the best forum on the web.

Cheers Steve

[hedleyf]

Good result, gear oil on a can says whet it is ,a gear oil , not a transmission oil.

Quite often when draining a car on service I notice the color of the oil and you can see the copper / brass in the oil, you don,t get this with gl4 , it shows the wear it cause,s . All this is important to folks like myself who work on and are interested in classic and vintage vehicles ,the type of oil is important. Just worth mentioning that a gear oil and a engine oil SAE ratings are different ,this means that a 75/80 sae gear oil is about the same viscosity as a 30/40 engine oil.

[Mistermena]

Silkolen PRO SRG 75w is a GL4 spec and as far as I remember has a SAE of a 10w-30 weight engine oil...