Test Drove 2013 Auris Hsd: Hard To Get Good Mpg

[Yolina]

Er, it's braking not breaking...

Ooops indeed... Typo, now corrected!

From a safety point of view, I think it is worth mentioning the reason for controlling a decent down a long/steep hill with the "engine" braking (B-mode/Low gear) and not the friction brakes, is that if you had the friction brakes applied all the way down the long/steep hill (sometime referred to as riding the brakes down the hill?) there is a good possibility that the brakes would become so hot that they would become useless.

Yeah, back-home-in-the-Alps engine braking is your best friend. You can usually spot the tourists a mile off, although there are fewer accidents than there used to be, it's still a problem in some places.

[johalareewi]

...

braking in a Toyota Hybrid whether initiated with the brake pedal or from "engine" braking, will first use regenerative braking which charges up the HV battery, if the HV battery is full, the system will then switch either to the friction brakes for braking initiated by the brake pedal, or when B-mode is enabled will use Petrol engine to slow down.

The HSD system can use engine braking when it wants to even if you haven't selected B mode.

This can happen on a long downhill run when the HV Battery is 'full', you can feel the Prius bringing in engine braking automatically even without B mode selected.

[johalareewi]

I was speaking about UK MPGs.

In which case, you are very much mistaken.

It seems strange that you prefer to believe random hearsay instead of real life data and experiences.

[timberwolf]

...

braking in a Toyota Hybrid whether initiated with the brake pedal or from "engine" braking, will first use regenerative braking which charges up the HV battery, if the HV battery is full, the system will then switch either to the friction brakes for braking initiated by the brake pedal, or when B-mode is enabled will use Petrol engine to slow down.

The HSD system can use engine braking when it wants to even if you haven't selected B mode.

This can happen on a long downhill run when the HV Battery is 'full', you can feel the Prius bringing in engine braking automatically even without B mode selected.

Yes, good point, I should have made a distinction between "engine" braking in D versus B.

i.e. Not as much "engine" braking as when B mode is selected to emulate being in a low gear?

I'm using "engine" in quotes to mean either the petrol or electric motor, but I doubt that I've been consistent in my usage.

BTW I can remember when Automatics had virtually no engine braking in D.

[timberwolf]

Ooops indeed... Typo, now corrected!

I've always struggled with my written English, so I wouldn't normally point out mistakes... On this occasion, I should try to explain why, I thought given the context of "gears wearing" that "engine breaking" could have another meaning - I know in hindsight not very likely. Apologies for mentioning it.

Yeah, back-home-in-the-Alps engine braking is your best friend. You can usually spot the tourists a mile off, although there are fewer accidents than there used to be, it's still a problem in some places.

Hopefully, not miles off meaning down a precipice.

[Nicolai]

I openly admit that I'm not a 100 per cent into the technique of the HSD, I just read on this that the manual actually actually advices against (frequent?) use of the B-"position".

As for overcharging the battery: I am aware that the Battery is always kept between, say, 20 and 80 per cent which is why I thought the overcharging risk was weird?

Perhaps I misunderstood. Will read up on HSD.

[ian rooke]

Hi Nicolai take no notice of Grumpy old man, keep asking questions thats what this forum is about, if you don't ask you will never find out and along the way you help dispell some of the misconceptions about the prius.

[kithmo]

I openly admit that I'm not a 100 per cent into the technique of the HSD, I just read on this that the manual actually actually advices against (frequent?) use of the B-"position".

This is mainly due to the fact that if you drive around in "B" mode you will use more fuel because the car slows down more when you take your foot off the gas pedal instead of coasting (gliding ?). Nothing to do with wear and tear.

[Yolina]

I've always struggled with my written English, so I wouldn't normally point out mistakes... On this occasion, I should try to explain why, I thought given the context of "gears wearing" that "engine breaking" could have another meaning - I know in hindsight not very likely. Apologies for mentioning it.

Nah, fair enough :P I should have proof-read but obviously didn't!

Hopefully, not miles off meaning down a precipice.

It does happen unfortunately...When you see anyone going down the descente de Vizillle (it's a steep, fairly straight downhill with some sweeping corners, rather than a "typical" twisty mountain road) with their brake lights on pretty much the whole time, 1) you know they're not from round there, and 2) you hope they are still able to brake for the tight corner before the bridge at the bottom. Obviously they know better despite the warning signs at the top

[ian rooke]

Hi one effect of leaving the car in "B" is that it will not engage Cruise controll.

[monya]

Having lived with the Auris for a couple of years the following may help:

1) Around cities like London it comes into it's own as a hybrid but on long runs a diesel would achieve more mpg.

2) Don't get hung up on trying to achieve 70+ mpg. You won't except during 50 mph speed limits on motorways.

3) You probably won't make up the cost differential between a standard Auris and a HSD anyway if saving money on gas is the rationale.

4) If you like driving with your 'foot down' buy a diesel. HSD is noisy when pushed.

5) If you want a fairly economical Auto with a 5 year warranty and drive like there's a glass of water on the bonnet that you don't want to spill, you could be onto something.

[Nicolai]

Hi Monya:

I do a lot of town driving and mostly around 40-60 mph on other roads. I currently don't do a lot of motorway driving but when I do, I only exceed 80 mph when overtaking. I most certaintly value economy over accelerations and spirited driving.

From your fifth point, I could think that you have regretted purchasing the Auris HSD?

In Denmark, Ts only come with 3 year or 60,000 miles warranty, however, the HSD parts are covered for five years.

I also consider the Civic 1.8 auto(rated 44 EU mpg): Nice car and definitely a nicer cabin compared to the Auris (I can't afford stitched leather in the cabin of the Auris) and cheaper than the Auris HSD but Toyota always scores top three in customers satisfaction in DK.

As for driving thrills, I am thinking about the next gen Mazda 3 but it will have the same price as the Auris HSD and mediocre fuel economy (and Mazdas are prone to corrosion plus customers satisfaction is adequate at best (but Mazda consistently scores high in German magazine"Auto Bild"'s 60,000 miles test.

What I am after is a good reliable petrol/hybrid car with a reliable auto gearbox than gets good mpg.

No French cars and VAG cars due to the unreliable DSG7 gearboxes.

[Dave R.]

Nicolai

Having come to this thread a bit late, I'll add my 10p worth...

1) if you want a view of relative fuel consumptions, check out the fuelly web site.

2) Personally, as you will see from my signature, I'm getting around 52mpg (UK) from my 2013 Prius. I drive a 100 mile round trip each day, down major roads and country lanes (so not motorways, top speed 50-60 mph, needing to accelerate and decelerate a lot due to junctions and tight bends etc.).

3) B is just for engine braking driving down Looooong hills - otherwise leave it to the computer and regenerative braking.

4) For relatively short hills, you can ride the brakes on the Prius - because it will be using regen braking rather than the friction brakes... so it won't be overheating the pads.

5) I have experienced on a long downhill run, having set cruise control, the Battery filled, so the computer switched to engine braking all on its own (interesting to hear the engine kick in whilst coasting down a hill!)

6) As others have noted, whilst other cars will give equivalent or better consumption e.g. on long motorway drives, they are not likely to be automatics, and not likely to give the same overall fuel consumption / ease of drive / smooth drive that you get from the Prius / Auris.

Hope that helps!

[monya]

I don't regret buying the HSD as the previous car was a Mercedes A class so the Toyota had many benefits for the same price + no road tax. If you want a hybrid Toyota leads the pack.The UK consumer magazine ' Which' has always had Toyota at or near the top of the list for reliability.

[Nicolai]

What's the best way to acceleration in a an HSD? Keeping in the green eco area and I thought it took forever to get up to the desired speed.

[alfonso]

What's the best way to acceleration in a an HSD? Keeping in the green eco area and I thought it took forever to get up to the desired speed.

Well, hybrid or no hybrid, if you want to accelerate fast, you will not be driving ecologically. They just don't happen together.

[Nicolai]

I realise. But on a Toyota Uk blog it said that when HSD techniques are mastered, there will be almost no difference in average speed compared to normal cars.

[alfonso]

I realise. But on a Toyota Uk blog it said that when HSD techniques are mastered, there will be almost no difference in average speed compared to normal cars.

I think you are overestimating (by many orders of magnitude) the impact of acceleration on average speed, while underestimating as well the impact of acceleration on fuel economy.

Or maybe you are confusing acceleration with average speed?

The difference between reaching the desired speed in 7.5 seconds and 20 seconds means absolutely nothing when it comes to the average speed of any trip.

Also, the speed limit might be 100 km/h and I might be tempted to reach it as soon as possible, but this does not mean the average speed I will obtain in such trip will be 100 km/h. In fact, if the average speed of a piece of road is (let's say) 60 km/h (taking into consideration traffic lights, density of traffic, bends, roundabouts...), it does not benefit me to try to run at 100 km/h, as my speeding over the average would be unlikely to provide me with benefits in average speed. Yet I'd be paying dearly in acceleration and unnecessary braking. A hybrid is not immune to any of these "problems", it just responds better to the cost of braking/acceleration pattern due to the regenerative braking and the electric motor.

Trying to achieve all the time the claimed "100 km/h in x seconds" will be hard on your fuel economy, no matter what you are driving.

Edit: a small re-wording and typo fixing. plus added last line.

[Nicolai]

My fault: I guess what I'm really after: can one accelerate almost normally (as in: not slowing down the cars behind you) and still achieve good average MPG?

I take it yours is the new auris model? You stay within the green line during acceleration? If so, do you have problems slowing down other cars?

I tried to drive like a granny (as much as possible on EV and "staying green" bust still wasn't impressed with MPG. Perhaps it is better to just get up to you speed like you would in a normal car and from THERE let the HSD do the rest. At least you won't slow down other cars this way.

[Parts-King]

I can't believe this thread has got to 5 pages about how to drive the car

For DOGS sake get in and drive the bl0ody thing. You will almost never drive it in EV, let the engine / EV do its thing, Ive had 55 MPG out of an Auris all year long without much trying. You will never likely reach anything like 70, go and buy a big diesel if MPG is your thing, but remember you have to compare apples with apples, IE an automatic version of equal size etc

Kingo

[alfonso]

My fault: I guess what I'm really after: can one accelerate almost normally (as in: not slowing down the cars behind you) and still achieve good average MPG?

I take it yours is the new auris model? You stay within the green line during acceleration? If so, do you have problems slowing down other cars?

I tried to drive like a granny (as much as possible on EV and "staying green" bust still wasn't impressed with MPG. Perhaps it is better to just get up to you speed like you would in a normal car and from THERE let the HSD do the rest. At least you won't slow down other cars this way.

My apologies, I think I've been misleading you. I haven't bought the car yet. I will next month when it becomes available in Ireland. The tips I've given you apply to pretty much any car I've driven (all petrol). EV is a gimmick. Maybe it works for those days that you don't want to walk to the convenience-store down the road, but its range is too short to actually make a difference in any sense.

Either way, what I gave you are tips that should work for any car. Slow down other cars? Sure if you can go faster than 50 kmh there is a fast lane? That's what it is for. As long as you are not cruising below the legal speed limit (if such a thing exists for you), what do you care? What other drivers do is not your responsibility. Be selfish. I have noticed more and more cars driving relatively slowly. Maybe it is the economy, the price of petrol, who knows...

[Yolina]

I guess what I'm really after: can one accelerate almost normally (as in: not slowing down the cars behind you) and still achieve good average MPG?

Yes :)

For average mpg probably more important is how cold it is and how far you're going (i.e enough time for everything to get up to temperature and then it can be more efficient - the heating makes a noticeable difference!)

In the Yaris hybrid, I'm getting just over 60mpg average despite temps of around 0C. However the mpg over the first 3 miles or so is dire (well it's all relative - around 45mpg) simply because it's cold. Once we get back to warmer temps, mpg will be much better again.

You stay within the green line during acceleration?

Nope, I just accelerate normally like I've always had - by "normally" I mean that I'm not racing off the lights, but I'm not taking half the day to get to speed either

Perhaps it is better to just get up to you speed like you would in a normal car and from THERE let the HSD do the rest.

That's what I do - car is in normal mode, I drive it like I would any other car and I just let it do its thing. The only use I've found for Eco mode (as in manually selected by pressing the button for it) so far is that it's rather good when driving on snow, however it would drive me nuts if I had that selected all the time.

[monya]

Took a trip up the M1 for 40 miles today, and keeping the speedo at 60 mph which equates to 54 in reality, averaged 71.3 mpg. On the way back at the usual 65 mph the return was 61.8 mpg. If where you drive has lots of hills, buy a diesel.

[T Sport 1978]

I get up to speed as quick as possible then cruise at the speed within the limit of the road with as little gas as possible in my HSD Auris, I have averaged 53MPG since May, and this was 58MPG before the winter kicked in.

And I think I have to say to Nicolai... Just buy the car for Pete's sake, life really is TOO SHORT.

[Nicolai]

I have been thinking: The reason I worry is partly to due with the fact that the Hybrid is rated the same MPG in city, and motorway. This is no the case with petrols or diesels, and therefore I'm thinking perhaps the rating of the dielsels and petrols are more realistic. My father-in-law has a prius 2011 and he achieves 56 mpg on average. This is 20 per cent lower than the EU norm.

Compasred to the 1.6 auris CVT, it is rated at 48.7 mpg. If the real life figues deviate with 20 per cent for this model as well, one will only achieve 39 mpg. But looking at Spritmonitor.de, it seems to match up OK to what people are getting in 1.6 manuals. But perhaps the hybrid achieves high mpgs at country roads (50 mph) easier?