Parking Mad

[balli hi]

Did anyone else see the Parking Mad documentary on the BBC last night featuring the Noto mob, these guys are hero's in my view, its about time that we have an organisation willing to take on the authorities in their pursuit of the common motorist, local councils have been abusing their powers for far too long and treating the common motorist as a cash cow, they employ devious underhand tactics and in some cases blatantly lie in order to fleece us of our hard earned cash,

Take the case of the pensioner in this documentary, he states that his blue Badge was on display, but was issued with a PCN, he went to adjudication, the council offered obscure images of the motorists car, but none showing a close up of the pensioners windscreen and dashboard, the Parking attendant had the audacity to sit there in front of the Adjudicator and claim that the blue Badge was not on display, but when the Adjudicator asked as to why there was not a close up of the dashboard proving the councils claim, the parking attendant had no answer, how she could sit there and in my view blatantly lie in order to rob a pensioner of £70 is despicable, beneath contempt, how do these people sleep at night.

I appreciate that not all PCN's are issued illegally, but there is evidence that the vast majority are...... enter the good guys, the Noto Mob, i'm sure this organisation will grow and grow as more and more disgruntled motorists decide to fight back .

If you missed the program on the BBC, http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01pvbyr/Parking_Mad/

The Notomob website

http://notomob.co.uk/discussions/

[Sooty]

I totally agree with you.

Even the mobile speed camera vans in Staffordshire have taken to hiding behind odstacles and NOT displaying the mandatory warning signs on approach to them.

Why do the councils and goverment insist on punishing drivers, fleecing them and then charging us sometimes 3 times to use a road. The M6 Toll is one example

[MikeSh]

Even the mobile speed camera vans in Staffordshire have taken to hiding behind odstacles and NOT displaying the mandatory warning signs on approach to them.

It's odd but I rather thought the signs saying what the speed limit is for a particular road, if not the national limit, were a bit of a giveaway. If you get caught speeding that's your lookout (or rather not looking at your speed).

Likewise parking illegally is your own fault, though clearly there are a few 'traps' around where it's easy to get caught out.

The pensioner one was interesting because it was clear from the various dialogues that he and the warden had had 'some words' at the time, so there may well have been some vengeance being wreaked by the warden. No excuse for her, but if you think you are right keeping cool and polite is more likely to work than being shouty.

[balli hi]

[

It's odd but I rather thought the signs saying what the speed limit is for a particular road, if not the national limit, were a bit of a giveaway. If you get caught speeding that's your lookout (or rather not looking at your speed).

Likewise parking illegally is your own fault, though clearly there are a few 'traps' around where it's easy to get caught out.

The pensioner one was interesting because it was clear from the various dialogues that he and the warden had had 'some words' at the time, so there may well have been some vengeance being wreaked by the warden. No excuse for her, but if you think you are right keeping cool and polite is more likely to work than being shouty.

Agreed , however as said its not always obviously clear that you have parked illegally, or broken the speed limit on certain roads, you really do need to have your wits about you and its getting to the point that you have to have a very good understanding of the regulations and parking laws, and more often than not you'll find out the hard way, for instance, how many people know what the yellow line or lines mean that are painted vertically on the Kerbstone edge ? , so lets say you park on a single yellow line after 6.30pm or on a bank holiday you return to your car to find a PCN attached to your windscreen, you can't understand why because everyone else has parked on single yellow lines but its only you and a few other cars next to yours that have PCN's.

The answer is that the lines on the kerb edge relate to loading, and you can only park on the single yellow line during permitted times, to find the permitted time you'll have to in a lot of cases walk along the pavement until you find a little white sign with the permitted times written on it, like the one in this photo, except that the photo below has double lines and indicates no loading at any time.

Then there's pavement parking, unless indicated that you can park, don't !, because it will automatically earn you a fine if caught, but how many knew that say an access road to a premises or dropped Kerb that has a pavement on either side of it is still considered as pavement or footway , the answer is that people have to walk across it to continue along the pavement, therefore it is considered a continuation of the footway and will earn you a fine for footway parking as it did me a couple of years ago , it was just after midnight with hardly anyone around i had a customer in my cab that wanted to use the ATM at the petrol station, there were cones placed preventing access to the station as it was closed and although there were single yellow lines on the road outside, the road was narrow and very busy with buses and cars , so as not to cause an obstruction to passing traffic, i parked a few feet into the space between the pavement but not on the pavement, or so i thought, unfortunately for me there was a camera opposite that recorded my heinous crime and i was issued with a PCN for the sum of £65 via letter. i argued that i was not parked on the pavement but within the entrance to the petrol station, so i found out the hard way that its still classed as footway, and i was oblivious to the fact that there was a camera on the opposite side of the road recording the "contravention" , have a look at the street view on google maps of where it happened http://maps.google.co.uk/ the adress of the station is 474-488 Wandsworth Road, Clapham, London SW8 3LT . If you click on GET DIRECTIONS then type 'Silverthorne Service Station, Wandsworth Road, London' into destination box A , and then

Wandsworth Rd, London, UK into destination box B, when the map comes up click on the A and the street view will load.

Just a couple of examples of how easy it is to unwittingly earn yourself a PCN, regards speeding the signs on the side of the road are not always clear, take Tower Bridge for instance where the speed limit was reduced to 20 mph a few years ago and is enforced with average speed check camera's, the sign at the beginning of the bridge stating 20 mph is the size of a dinner plate and easily missed, i know of at least two people that were prosecuted for driving at 30 mph across the bridge. there are loads more examples of course of inadequate signage that will land you with a speeding fine and points, or PCN's from local councils, and their not always fair.

Many councils deliberately set out to make their signage as obscure as possible in order to catch you out and raise revenue, 3 of the worst in London being Camden, Westminster and Islington.

like i said the Noto mob in my view are hero's in the fightback against thieving councils.

[MikeSh]

I agree it is often not easy to work out parking and sometimes speed limits, but if that was a permitted defence (ie. ignorance of the law) think of the chaos that would ensue.

One problem with parking is that people think that the yellow lines are important - they aren't really. It's the little sign that's the legal bit. And single yellow line doesn't mean "well, it's not really no parking, mate", it's NO PARKING unless the little sign says you can.

As to people parking on pavements - no sympathy, no tolerance. Most times it doesn't help traffic flow and disrupts pedestrians. But your tale of the entrance to the petrol station is an eye opener. Of course an access is obviously not somewhere you'd normally park anyway, even if not a pavement, but getting done for just pulling in to wait for someone seems very harsh. I take it you didn't actually get out of the cab.

[balli hi]

I agree it is often not easy to work out parking and sometimes speed limits, but if that was a permitted defence (ie. ignorance of the law) think of the chaos that would ensue.

One problem with parking is that people think that the yellow lines are important - they aren't really. It's the little sign that's the legal bit. And single yellow line doesn't mean "well, it's not really no parking, mate", it's NO PARKING unless the little sign says you can.

As to people parking on pavements - no sympathy, no tolerance. Most times it doesn't help traffic flow and disrupts pedestrians. But your tale of the entrance to the petrol station is an eye opener. Of course an access is obviously not somewhere you'd normally park anyway, even if not a pavement, but getting done for just pulling in to wait for someone seems very harsh. I take it you didn't actually get out of the cab.

No, i stayed in the cab and waited for my passenger to return, any other time i would have waited within the petrol station, but on this occasion it was closed for whatever reason bearing in mind it has a 24hr sign, and there were cones placed on the ground in the entrance to the forecourt, if i had known that it was footway parking i'd have parked in the road and caused an obstruction, as it would not have cost me £65 . so a harsh lesson learned.

[MikeSh]

Ouch. Not even what I'd call parking then, just waiting. I thought there might be a difference, but maybe not legally.

[balli hi]

Legally ?, Absolutely none.

Its one of the things touched upon in the BBC program, a traffic warden , sorry Parking Attendant can use common sense and say that you can't park there before issuing a ticket if you remain, but the camera's give you no chance whatsoever, they simply record the incident and present it as evidence.

Look i don't want to go over old ground, but this was the case last year, when i posted on here about a ticket i received locally, i was about to park in a space in front of a shop when i read the sign in the shop window stating unauthorised parked cars will be wheel clamped, i quickly ran in the shop to ask if i could park, leaving my offside wheels about one foot over the dropped kerb, i didn't know there was a smart car up the road with its periscope raised, i was filmed for 5 seconds and was once again done for footway parking. i went to the council offices to view the footage, ( their evidence ) the video was almost over as soon as it started, 5 seconds !, i took advice and was told i had to pay up because the footage proved the contravention. regardless of how long i was there.

I could have took the chance and argued my case at the Adjudicator's , but my adviser explained that there was a good chance i'd lose, so i opted reluctantly to pay.

what really irks me the most is that if you take the chance and go to Adjudication and lose, you will have to pay the fine at the increased rate, for example, pay within a fortnight and the fine will be £65 , or go to Adjudication and lose, the fine will be at the increased rate of £130.

This is what councils play on, they know that many people will simply pay up rather than risk paying double, that's why they in many cases issue PCN's willy nilly even though they know you would win if you took your case to adjudication, as proved by the builder in the TV program, they do this as iv'e already said, because many people will simply just pay up.

This for me is where the system falls down, because there is no pressure on the councils if they lose a case, they simply just walk away scot-free and move on to their next victim, they know that its very difficult and rare to have costs awarded against them, in short they have very little to lose other than having to attend a case to provide their evidence, some times they don't even bother to turn up because they know the adjudicator will find in your favour, but the council still put you through the wringer, by refusing your original appeal and forcing you to Adjudication, because there is nothing in place for them to be punished. basically untouchable .

There were at least two instances in the program where the council attended the Adjudication only to provide no concrete evidence, the guy in the bus lane being one and the pensioner being the other.

[Dark Matter]

A program showing stupid people parking without looking at the signage or thinking they can pick and choose when the laws apply. No sympathy here , driving 35 years and never had a parking ticket . Ever. No to mob looked to me like a bunch of busybodies with too much time on their hands and massively inflated view of their worth to the motorist. It was laughable that they were trying to stop people driving down bus lanes in Medway due to poor signage. No one pointed out the huge BUS LANE written on the road. Anyone who missed that but carried on regardless needs to get off the road.

The reference in the post above to the poor speed limit sineage over Tower Bridge ignores,Notomob style , the huge 20 painted on the road.

If you can be bothered to look at the Medway section of road on Google Maps it is not only obvious where the bus lanes start but there is a slip road that allows drivers who wander inadvertantly into that area to turn around a head back BEFORE they enter either bus lane. You would have to be practically asleep at the wheel to miss it. The only concession is that the road is effectively a dead end to cars as you cannot turn left or right (bus lane ) or go straigt ahead (pedistrianised area) and should be signed as such..

The Asian guy parked on the pavement stradling the double yellow played the race card almost immediately. He demonstrated perrfectly the attitude that people who get tickets display i.e. it's always someone elses fault when they get caught acting illegally. The only person talking any sense was the lady that berated him for not reading the sign and being to lazy to drive to the car park. The parking out side the Tesco Local that was being monitored by the camera car had a 30 minute limit during the (clearly indicared) restriction So all this cr*p about parking or few minute and getting a ticket was very suspect. Again No to mob very quiet on the matter. And while we are at it how about using the clear video evidence to prosecute the builder who was so above the law he deemed himself exempt from wearing a seatbelt.

[Dark Matter]

I totally agree with you.

Even the mobile speed camera vans in Staffordshire have taken to hiding behind odstacles and NOT displaying the mandatory warning signs on approach to them.

Why do the councils and goverment insist on punishing drivers, fleecing them and then charging us sometimes 3 times to use a road. The M6 Toll is one example

Because they are trying to catch drivers who habitually ignore the speed limit , not those that slow down only when they see a camera.

[balli hi]

You are entitled to your opinion as much as anyone else, if we all agreed on everything all of the time it really would be a perfect world.

With reference to signage on tower bridge, the huge 20 painted on the road as you put it was put there after many people had already been caught and complained that the signage was inadequate, and trade unions including my own put pressure on the Authority to improve signage, so a much later addition, also the authority responsible if my memory serves me right argued due to the historical nature of the site, they could not put up larger signs etc.

[Raistlin]