Disc Brakes

[VSD]

Hi all,

Just got my Aygo back from Toyota after the 4th service. I have 12500miles on the clock (4yrs). They told me that brake discs must be changed by the next change of pads.

Is this normal? I mean how long does it usually take to change discs on aygo?

Thanks!! :)

[Unklian]

Aygo discs wear very quickly. All modern discs do.

12500 miles is low even for an Aygo.

"Next change of pads"...... have yours been changed already?

Or do they mean next service? 5 years?

What has probably happened is that the pads are fairly OK but

the inner faces of the discs are very corroded.

I try to put mine away with dry brakes and was surprised when it was suggested mine needed doing.

A quick look at the inside face of the discs showed that they were finished.

(Normally, the inside faces are protected by a spray guard,

as the Aygo is a cheap car, these were omitted to save pennies.)

Its not a long job, there are a couple of threads on here how to change them yourself.

Many people go for aftermarket rather than Genuine Toyota, due to the rapid wear.

Personally, I have fitted EBC black pads and standard discs on my Aygo and my Wife's.

Cost from EBC direct, about £75.00 then, if you're not confident, have them fitted at your

local independent. Probably about 1 hour's labour?

Ian.

[VSD]

Thanks Ian....

Break pads were replaced a year ago. I assume discs + pads have to be replaced in how much? 3 years?

Thanks,

IVAN

[daveyjp]

Ours were done last year at 5 years old - pads and discs. Lack of use was our problem and probably the OP's as ours had done just 16,000 miles. Water gets in the vents and the discs rust as the brakes aren't used enough to dry out moisture.

If the discs weren't vented they would last longer, there's absolutely no need for vented discs on such a low powered car.

[ihpj]

If the discs weren't vented they would last longer, there's absolutely no need for vented discs on such a low powered car.

Seriously? Solid discs have poor brake performance and more succeptible to fading due to the fact they can't dissipate heat. It's like suggesting we should have drum brakes at front because they won't rust as the system is enclosed. In today's day and age solid discs, even on the rear, have no place on modern vehicles.

[AlanTR]

I bought an absolutely immaculate May 2010 Aygo Black a few months ago from a Toyota dealer. It had 12K miles on the clock. The dealer had renewed the front discs and pads at the last (very recent) service due to disc corrosion. Low mileage cars that sit around in rain/snow etc tend to suffer from brake disc corrosion. Also, the brake disc material is low quality and has poor corrosion resistance. The corrosion is usually worse on the back side of the discs (the bit you can't see).

[daveyjp]

If the discs weren't vented they would last longer, there's absolutely no need for vented discs on such a low powered car.

Seriously? Solid discs have poor brake performance and more succeptible to fading due to the fact they can't dissipate heat. It's like suggesting we should have drum brakes at front because they won't rust as the system is enclosed. In today's day and age solid discs, even on the rear, have no place on modern vehicles.

You've been reading too many theory books. On a city car with low bhp and light weight vented dics are simply not required - solid front discs were adequate on such cars not that many years ago and they would be suitable now, but discs which last the lifetime of the car is not in the interest of the manufacturers as they can't sell as many replacements.

[acetip]

Disc brakes are no more efficient than drum brakes of equel friction area.

Disc brakes dont get as overheated so easely as drum ones cos air can flow around the discs and pads.

you hear a lot these days of disc rusting and wearing and wearing quickly.

But Drum brakes dont seem to have this problem unless there is a fault

.

Pads are much easier to change on the average than shoes are. Many people think a brake servo gives you better brakes, not so, the servo just helps you apply the brakes with less effort.

Should a servo fall for what ever reason, then you need to push harder on the brake pedal to get the same braking effect as if the servo was ok.

Mind you we are all are used to having to press the fairly gently to get the braking we want,but a servo failure could catch you out.the first time the brakes are applied after a servo failure.

[ihpj]

You've been reading too many theory books. On a city car with low bhp and light weight vented dics are simply not required - solid front discs were adequate on such cars not that many years ago and they would be suitable now, but discs which last the lifetime of the car is not in the interest of the manufacturers as they can't sell as many replacements.

Thank you for dismissing my years of experience on this particular topic.

Just because solid front discs were good in the past, doesn't mean that we have to accept that today; I guess you prefer black and white TV and valves in radios because there is no need for innovation? Many city cars are quite capable of more than just pottering around towns and cities @ 30MPH, as such, you may not see vented discs it as necessary, but given these are very capable vehicles I'd take proper vented disc brakes any day.

You can drive with your drum brakes and solid discs, I'll take modern engineering and technological innovations.

[MikeSh]

Solid discs aren't a realistic option for several reasons. Only one is performance - they need to stop the car (fully loaded) without fading from 70+ mph, possibly more than once. City car does not come into it. (I remember brake fade - it was serious brown trouser time).

The other two are cost and weight - to make the car cheaper, more fuel efficient and reduce unsprung weight. Both require using the least amount of metal, so the diameter is reduced as far as can be while maintaining brake force, so the result is a 'hotter' disc that needs ventilation ... which also reduces the weight. Result - thin, cheap discs that rust/wear away rather often.

It's little different from toasters - remember when they weren't a consumable item? It's just part of the modern way.

[AlanTR]

All cars should be equipped with a braking system suitable for the most rigorous driving style that the car may be subjected to. These days vented discs should be part of the braking system, where safety is concerned there should be no compromise.

[Parts-King]

Agreed, and solid discs and rear drums would be perfectly acceptable on an Aygo. It is a city car not a hyper miler

Kingo

[acetip]

Since asbestos was banned from being used in pads,shoes and clutches then i suppose then brakes are more prone to brake fading. and disc would be the best option.

Earlier road test when asbestos was used part of the test on the better tests used to do multi high speed brake tests.

to test for brake fade. most were drum brakes. cant remember any car considered dangerous.

And therer was no speed limet on earlier days of the Motorways. some coaches were often reported doing 100mph and quiet legaly.with drum brakes which all lorries seemed to have then.

To consider drum brakes as being dangerious inferior cheap alternative to discs is a falasy. as is saying solid discs are.to ventalated ones.

Maybe those who drive on their brakes may need vented discs alround.

[ihpj]

It's a case of being appropriate for the time. Today cars are very different to what they were 20 years ago and no doubt moving ahead they will be so again. For modern vehicles, there is absolutely no argument that can justify the suggestion solid discs are good enough by today's standards. And to suggest a global conspiracy from manufacturers is a total nonsense.

Trucks and coaches use very different brake set ups to cars; for one they have a hydraulic system which is not found on cars.

No doubt some would prefer imperial system to metric, but you know what? Metric exists because it is better. Similarly, if solid discs were that good, or drums, then we'd still have them on cars - fact is they are useless redundant systems that have no place on modern vehicles...and to continue to suggest otherwise, is a hopeless exercise.

[Parts-King]

fact is they are useless redundant systems that have no place on modern vehicles...and to continue to suggest otherwise, is a hopeless exercise.

What a nonsense!

So because we can make 6 pot calipers with carbon discs and pads then every car should have them?

Solid discs / rear drums are still in production because they do a perfectly acceptable job for a small city car, and most importantly, at the right price! You could fit solid or vented discs to an Aygo, and unless you were taking it around Brands hatch for a day you would never even know what was fitted, 95% of the population would not give a four X either. You are suffering from brake snobbery!

Kingo

[Sooty]

I would love to see a modern lorry or bus that has a hydraulic system not found on a car!

If I did I would run miles away.

I think IHPJ must have typo'd this. He must have meant older lorries and buses had an "Air over hydraulic system" where a compressor charges air to approx 5-7 bars. This pressure is applied to the brake master cylinder giving greater pressure than a drivers foot could.

New ones have a pure air pressure braking system where air pressure reacts against a spring and applies the brakes where drums are fitted i.e artic trailers.

No insult intended, I just wanted to clarify the difference between lorry/bus brakes and cars.

Sooty

[ihpj]

Yes Sooty I typo'd, thank you for the clarification.

But back to the solid/vented discs...I'm amazed that folks think that today these types of discs are appropriate safety equipment? It's not about being adequate, it's about being safe. Solid discs might be acceptable but I don't want acceptable, I want the other side of acceptable when it comes to bakes. Why not stick with drums on the front then?

Wen it comes to safety, no compromise. If technology for 4-pot calipers becomes cheap, then yes let's have them. Because if you ever find yourself in a situation when you need your brakes, you'd be grateful you had the best.

[Daddyslaphead]

fact is they are useless redundant systems that have no place on modern vehicles...and to continue to suggest otherwise, is a hopeless exercise.

What a nonsense!

So because we can make 6 pot calipers with carbon discs and pads then every car should have them?

Solid discs / rear drums are still in production because they do a perfectly acceptable job for a small city car, and most importantly, at the right price! You could fit solid or vented discs to an Aygo, and unless you were taking it around Brands hatch for a day you would never even know what was fitted, 95% of the population would not give a four X either. You are suffering from brake snobbery!

Kingo

Well said, that man Some people seem to be forgetting that we are talking about a light weight, low power vehicle. Back in the day far higher performing road vehicles used solid discs with no problems at all. Solid discs will stop you just as surely and quickly on an Aygo. You'd never know the difference between vented or solid on any road-going Aygo. Actually all this talk about disc type rather overlooks the engineerting of the pads themselves. Fade is the result a change in the molecular structure of the pad surface. Good quality pads will resist fade up to their design specification irrespective of the disc type. The Aygo performance capability falls well short of what the pads can deal with and that applies equally to the discs.

DSH

[Parts-King]

Wen it comes to safety, no compromise. If technology for 4-pot calipers becomes cheap, then yes let's have them. Because if you ever find yourself in a situation when you need your brakes, you'd be grateful you had the best.

So because vented / carbon / 6 pot calipers are available you ALWAYS make sure your car is fitted with them then? No, thought not

Cost has to be a factor, the Aygo is a city car, you keep losing sight of that fact

Kingo

[AlanTR]

City car it may be and most people will use it as such. However an Aygo in the hands of the 'boy racer' could be given a severe test which could involve sustained heavy use of the brakes. The car has sensibly been equipped for this eventuality, hence the vented discs.

No, vented discs are not required for city driving, but there is no telling how the car could be used and driven. Driving on hilly roads such as found in Scotland with a full load of adults (lots of big people around these days) and maybe some kit in the boot, I could see the brakes getting a pretty severe test. Due to this I can see the need for vented discs.

Equip for all eventualities...I'm sure this is Toyota's reasoning - no compromise on safety as well as maintaining the car's appeal for the discerning buyer.

Anyway, you could argue about this all day - pretty pointless really.

[AlanTR]

Here you go guys - to take it a step further - front dimpled, grooved and ventilated front discs for your Aygo!!! Ha ha! Just what you need...

http://www.ebay.co.u...=item45fdbaa2e1

[MikeSh]

Well, they'd certainly look nice behind a set of open alloys (be a shame about the micro drums at the back though )

I wonder if they would last longer than the OEMs? Might be worth it if they did.