Can I Fit 6 Speed In My Car ?

[petrolhed]

Hello,

i have been looking around on ways that might make my car a little bit better, i have a 1.4vvti toyota corolla 2003. for those who dont know its a 5 speed manual. i wanted to know would i be able to fit the 6 speed box out of a tsport in to it ? i thought having 6 speeds would maybe make it a bit more economical when on long runs such as motorway ?

so what i am asking is can it be done.

would it fit.

would it make much of a difference ?

is it worth doing

will it ruin my car ?

Thanks for any help you can give,

Petrol hed

[madvinegar]

I think that you can fit it, but it will ruin the performance of your car.

The Tsport gear box is disigned for 192 BHP, 8400rpm and top speed of 230kph.

This means that the gears are much "longer" as they need to spread the power of 192 horses onto the road.

Your car is a 1.4, 6800rpm, 98hp so it needs "shorter" gears to exploit the "low" power of the car especially at low revs, or at high speeds. With the gearbox of a Tsport, using 6th gear on a motorway, you car would not have enough power/torque to move the car properly.

I know that because I have the same car. (Ofcourse now I oversized the engine, but I know what you are talking about).

If you like you can fit the 6speed gearbox of a facelift E11 G6. You will gain even shorter gears for better acceleration, probably better at motorways with 6th gear, but you would have to make gear changes more often. For example, the 2nd gear in our cars reaches about 100kph, while on a G6 reaches 80kph.

Generally speaking, don't expect to see any huge difference, but it is all up to you.

[petrolhed]

Thanks a lot, also what do you mean by oversized your engine ?

Thanks Petrol

[madvinegar]

I oversized my engine from 1.4L to 1.8L by replacing my pistons, connecting rods, crankshaft, throttle body and intake manifold with the ones of an 1ZZ-fe.

For more info check my build thread here: http://www.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=114548&st=0

and also see here posts #157 and #158 to see how the car looks now, the dyno test, videos etc.: http://www.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=114548&st=150

[Jamesbelfast]

Just because a car has 6 gears doesn't necessarily mean its top gear has a higher ratio than a 5-speed box. Plus higher ratio doen't always equate to better fuel consumption - the engine may have to work harder to overcome the higher resistance.

[madvinegar]

Just because a car has 6 gears doesn't necessarily mean its top gear has a higher ratio than a 5-speed box. Plus higher ratio doen't always equate to better fuel consumption - the engine may have to work harder to overcome the higher resistance.

+1

[Steven252]

Madvinger. Theres absolutely naff all in gear ratios between my compressor and my old SR(g6) so the tsport box would be fine IMO

Both would be doing 3k @60mph and the in gear speeds to revs were really that close that the engine wouldnt have felt doged or anything.

Tbh swoping to the 6 speed box wont give you any better ecomony as 6th is 5th on both respective boxes. And the performance difference is nothing worth doing it.

Be better off buying a 1zz for 300-400 and putting it in ;)

[madvinegar]

Madvinger. Theres absolutely naff all in gear ratios between my compressor and my old SR(g6) so the tsport box would be fine IMO

Both would be doing 3k @60mph and the in gear speeds to revs were really that close that the engine wouldnt have felt doged or anything.

Tbh swoping to the 6 speed box wont give you any better ecomony as 6th is 5th on both respective boxes. And the performance difference is nothing worth doing it.

Are you sure?

The 2nd gear of the G6 goes up to 80kph. The 2nd gear of a Tsport goes up to 105kph. How is that the same? I will try to find the table with the gear ratios of both cars to show you how different they are.

Be better off buying a 1zz for 300-400 and putting it in ;)

Are you talking about 1zz engine or gearbox?

[Steven252]

Madvinger. Theres absolutely naff all in gear ratios between my compressor and my old SR(g6) so the tsport box would be fine IMO

Both would be doing 3k @60mph and the in gear speeds to revs were really that close that the engine wouldnt have felt doged or anything.

Tbh swoping to the 6 speed box wont give you any better ecomony as 6th is 5th on both respective boxes. And the performance difference is nothing worth doing it.

Are you sure?

The 2nd gear of the G6 goes up to 80kph. The 2nd gear of a Tsport goes up to 105kph. How is that the same? I will try to find the table with the gear ratios of both cars to show you how different they are.

Be better off buying a 1zz for 300-400 and putting it in ;)

Are you talking about 1zz engine or gearbox?

Ye 1zz engine, can pick a complete unit up for about that now

The tsport revs to 8200rpm where as the g6 only revs to 6700rpm. Theres your difference in speed :)

[madvinegar]

Ye 1zz engine, can pick a complete unit up for about that now

It's up to you. I prefer not to put a used engine in my car that I know nothing about. Also, most of the 1zz engines, especially those which cost 300-400 are the old ones with the faulty pistons, so for sure the car will be burning oil.

I used new parts for the conversion of my engine so it is like I did a rebuilt and everything now is brand new. I also bought and installed the new generation of pistons (with more oil holes) with which you don't get the oil burning.

Plus I supervised the whole procedure to be 100% sure that all was done properly.

So, to cut the long story short, I prefered to pay some money more, but to be 100% certain that my engine is perfect (and that I will not spend any more money on it).

We have a saying in Greece, that sometimes "when you buy something cheap, it is usually very exensive."

Meaning that, if I have actually installed a used engine, and it turned out to be faulty or started burning oil and then had to take it to the repair shop again and again etc... then the actual cost of it would be much higher. And I am not taking into account the psycological factor which is priceless.

So for piece of mind, I followed the oversizing route.

Anyone is free to make his own choises.

Lets not ruin the topic of petrolhead.

Back to the gearbox.

As said, let me find the table of the gearbox ratios for both cars and you will see the differences.

[madvinegar]

So, coming back on the subject, I finally managed to find out what codes the gearboxes have, according to each corolla.

The Tsport has the C64, the G6 has the C60 and the 4zz vvti 5speed has the C50.

C64 (corolla tsport)

Gear ratios for this transmission.

1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th Reverse Final

3.166 2.050 1.481 1.166 0.916 0.815 3.250 4.529

C60 (corolla g6 )

Gear ratios for this transmission.

1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th Reverse Final

3.166 2.050 1.481 1.166 0.916 0.725 3.250 4.529

C50 (corolla 4zz 5speed)

Gear ratios for this transmission.

1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th Reverse Final

3.545 1.904 1.310 0.969 0.815 3.250 3.722

So, first of all we see that the Tsport gearbox and the G6 gearbox have the same ratios from 1st till 5th, and different 6th. The Tsport 6th is actually shorter(!) than the 6th of the G6. Also the 5th gear of the 4zz 5speed gearbox is the same as the 6th of the Tsport gearbox.

So, in case you need a more economic 6th, it is better to install the G6 gearbox (but all of the other gears will be shorter).

However, I don't know if there is any difference on the "bevel drive pinion" between the Tsport and the G6 gearbox.

Hope that's helpfull !

[Steven252]

I thought they were pritty much bang on with each other :)

[madvinegar]

I thought they were pritty much bang on with each other :)

Steven I must admit you were 90% correct! :) They just have a different 6th! (and ofcourse I don't know whether they have different drive-pinion).

[Steven252]

Re looking at the ratios 1-6 are all the same.

Its the final drive thats different, which will make all 6 gears different to each other comparing box for box

The tsports gearbox final drive is set up for accelleration more than speed so itll be fine on a G6

Please bare in mind that the celica/mr2/avensis 6 speed gearboxes had different ratios to the corolla too :)

[madvinegar]

When you say "final drive" you mean the 6th gear?

The final drive is the same for both. 4.529

[Steven252]

Sorry mate ive missed the numbers underneath on my phone.

Yes your right just looked like on my phone that it was the final drive that was different

[4AFnolongerE]

Hi...!

Wow! Few years later and this info is gold...!

Would you be so kind to check this?: https://www.armstrongfamilyblog.com/armstrongracing/comparing-the-toyota-c160-to-the-c60-6-speed-transaxle-evolution

Both are 6 speed gearboxes, and I'm so confused where the C60 came from...! I'm sure I did get mine from a '98 G6. (Not sure if E11)

To me... Madvinegar's description of the Tsport was the description for the C60, but how comes it was for the C64...!

 

Also, if you check wikipedia, C60 and C160 seems to change on 6th only, which in the blog I left before seems to be not true.

 

But I'll be waiting on your comments! 

 

 

Glad I landed here.

[Catlover]

Hi Carlos and welcome to TOC.

None of the above posters have visited the forum in the last 30 months, so are unlikely to reply.  Some more recent member may read and want to comment.

[ErnestJansen]

Good day... I have a 5 speed manual transmission corolla 1.4 2007 model (4ZZ engine), when travelling at a speed of 140km/h i can hear the rev and feel like i can shift to gears 6. which gear box can i use?

[Stivino]

I have no idea whether or not it's a straight swap but, I do know that it's not worth the trouble, or expense.

Best to buy another car with six gears, if it really bothers you.