Front Wheels Hopping/skipping When Turning Near Full Lock

[Joddrick]

I'm experiencing a strange effect on the front wheels of my 08 yaris when I move it with the steering on full lock and sometimes just turning 90 degrees. I get a sort of hopping/wobbling/skipping sensation from the front wheels.

I'm worried it could be dangerous it happens on any road surface in any weather conditions!!

Please help so I some idea when I have to visit a garage. When a women explains anything they seem to always think its in our heads!! I'd rather have a solid idea or name for what it could be.

Thank you

[Chris81]

I sometimes notice this on my old shape yaris but put it down to the road surface. The CV joints on your driveshafts can cause an audible clicking noise and you can feel a 'rumble' through the steering wheel if they're damaged.

Does it do it in both directions - i.e. full lock right and full lock left?

Have you owned the car since new? Has it just started doing it?

[Cyker]

If this is a Mk1 Yaris, it's normal - The front wheels don't turn to the same angle for some reason (Probably deliberately to make the car more understeery) and at full lock one of the wheels is being dragged slightly sideways.

It's a bit annoying in multi-storey carparks and the like as my car makes tyre screeching noises when I'm going round spiral ramps but for the most part nothing to worry about.

[FROSTYBALLS]

Second generation Yaris - 2008.

[Joddrick]

Thanks for the advice so far! Cyker your right about the discription like the wheels being dragged sideways. The roads are dry today and it hasn't done it as much. It happens even when I reverse out of my drive and pull away so not even on full lock!!

Chris81 it happens both directions the wheels are turned. I brought it December last year to replace my car after someone side swiped me!! Was looking for something reliable so hope this isn't going to be a costly repair if it need it!! It's very annoying as people look when they hear it!! It looks like its not doing the tyres any good either!!

:(

[Joddrick]

I meant 2011!! It's the newer shape T3 Manual reg date August 2008

[t-spiritpete]

This could just be down to the tracking being slightly out OR the Yaris steering is set up like this.

The front wheels should be at different angles at full lock, this is known as the Ackermann theory due to the inside wheel having to turn a different radius to the outside one and visa - versa. A lot of other things come into the equation like camber and caster angles (but Joddick don't worry about this bit) and all manufactures have their own way of doing it and whether the car is short or very long in wheelbase etc etc. Consequently some cars may scrub or squeal the tyres more than others ... that's normal but if your car has suddenly started doing it, then you may have a problem.

I hope this doesn't confuse things .... Pete.

[Geoff Peace]

If this is a Mk1 Yaris, it's normal - The front wheels don't turn to the same angle for some reason (Probably deliberately to make the car more understeery) and at full lock one of the wheels is being dragged slightly sideways.

It's a bit annoying in multi-storey carparks and the like as my car makes tyre screeching noises when I'm going round spiral ramps but for the most part nothing to worry about.

The front wheels on any car do not 'turn' to the same degree. The difference between the two wheels in degrees is known as the Ackerman angle. If someone has tracked the car and only adjusted one side, instead of doing the job properly then this angle is greater at one side than the other causing the symptoms you describe. If you have the car tracked, go somewhere with a roll-over set up where each wheel is tracked individually rather than using the measuring type gauge which only sets the toe, not the geometry of the steering.

Regards Geoff Peace

[Joddrick]

Thanks t-spiritpete and Geoff that all makes sense. I did find something online about Ackerman angel. It hasn't just started but it's either got worse or I'm just noticing it more!! More like the latter!! I will take it to a tyre place and get it tracked its worth a try. Thanks for all your help everyone I'm so glad I joined :) x

[MikeSh]

Are you a bit heavy footed? No offence, but if you use significant power with it on full or moderate lock from stationary the wheels will tend to lose traction (or rather I think it is the inside one that loses it as it gets the weight lifted off it) and you can get a sort of skip as it loses-grips-loses-grips. I get that pulling out of side turnings in a hurry sometimes, esp. if the surface is poor.

[Joddrick]

Hey cheeky!!!! Lol I think you mean heavy handed!! I have tested my it on as little turn as needy and even very slowly. This only make is skip still but at a slower rate but it still does it. I would say its worse when the roads are wet.

It doesn't help that all road surfaces now are shot to pieces!!

I will ask the very lovely people at Christchurch Tyres to check my tracking, wheels and tyres. I do keep my tyres pumped on a regular basis so I look after them. I don't do many miles so I am getting tyre split on the outer edges due to this, well so I'm told by the garage!

Thank you and no offence taken MikeSh. :)

[alfiejts]

Mine also does this occasionally (2008 SR) - usually when pulling out of the drive on full lock and when the surface is damp so not as grippy as usual.

Its just down to the steering geometry.

We've had ours from new and the front wheels have never been kerbed or banged to knock the geometry out.

Its just down to the design of the Yaris front suspension & steering geometry.

Don't forget - this is at full luck (or nearly) whilst manouvering at slow speed, so isn't dangerous and you'll never be anywhere near this amount of steering lock when moving at speed (well if you are, you're really in trouble....... :-) )

[Rayburn]

Well to me it sounds like Tyres. As they wear you can get this type of problem.

Joddric

When you go into the tyre garage get them to check the tyre treads.

You will be so amazed at the difference when new tyres are fitted.

R

[MikeSh]

Hey cheeky!!!! Lol I think you mean heavy handed!!

No I didn't. I meant using significant power - ie. heavy on the throttle.

I don't do many miles so I am getting tyre split on the outer edges due to this, well so I'm told by the garage!

Not quite sure what tyre split means here but it doesn't sound good, so there may well be a problem.

Thank you and no offence taken MikeSh.

Phew! Got away with it

[Cyker]

Well to me it sounds like Tyres. As they wear you can get this type of problem.

Joddric

When you go into the tyre garage get them to check the tyre treads.

You will be so amazed at the difference when new tyres are fitted.

R

In this case it is the steering geometry for sure, not the tyres. I know exactly what the OP means as both the Yarisususes I've had do the same thing.

From what pete and geoff say, I suspect this Ackerman thingy isn't set up right on the Yaris (Either one of the compromises they had to make to cram everything in, or deliberate to make the car understeer more readily; For sure this is the cause of the Yaris' above-average tendency to understeer tho'!).

[alfiejts]

Certainly not worn tyres on mine. I've just fitted my winter wheels & tyres and they've got about 5.5mm of tread all the way around, because I checked them before fitting....

I'm confident its something due to the overall front suspension alignment which is always a compromise in terms of caster, camber and toe-in, let alone the ackerman angle! :-)

Unless there are any suspension designers on here, we're all just making educated guesses.

But my 2008 SR has never been clouted, banged or tracking adjusted (because my wife daren't get within 18" of a kerb when parking for fear of damaging her alloys and suffering my wrath....) and its only done 19000 miles since new so the suspension isn't worn - and on a cold, damp slippery surface, at slow speed on full lock, I felt one wheel skip just once the other day - I'm sure that its just down to the suspension design and nothing to worry about.

And lets face it, if anything was worn at all, they would have picked it up at its recent MOT and if the steering alignment was out at all, they tyres would have worn unevenly - and none of that has occured - so I conclude its all as it was deliberately designed....

[Joddrick]

A massive thanks all the replys to my dilemma. Alfejts your right about something would have been picked up in service/MOT. I had mot in June and a service in December and all that was mentioned was the rear tyres having small cracks in edges that could be due to low mileage!! I've never had it with any if my other cars tyres!! I will endeavour to take to to a tyre bar and have them give it the once over!!

Thanks again to all who have responded 👍

[Geoff Peace]

A massive thanks all the replys to my dilemma. Alfejts your right about something would have been picked up in service/MOT. I had mot in June and a service in December and all that was mentioned was the rear tyres having small cracks in edges that could be due to low mileage!! I've never had it with any if my other cars tyres!! I will endeavour to take to to a tyre bar and have them give it the once over!!

Thanks again to all who have responded

All cars are set correctly when new. The trouble starts when wheels are kerbed etc, suspension arms track rods etc can be bent very slightly, bushes, steering racks etc. will wear causing misalignment. The castor and camber angles are fixed on most cars until you get to decent sports cars etc. The toe angle can be adjusted on all cars by adjusting the length of the track rods. It is vital that they are adjusted equally on both sides, otherwise the steering geometry is unequal. Most tyre fitters adjust one side only usually with a caliper type gauge which rests on the wheel rims and then look down a telescope to see a reflection in a mirror oppostite. What none of them the do is, before starting, put the gauge back to back and zero it! Hence all readings are meaningless. Insist on a roll-over gauge where both wheels are adjusted independently, if you want to go the whole hog find somewhere with a Hunter four wheel alignment system. And ask for the before and after print outs! Misaligned tryes wear quickly which costs money! You can probably guess who carries out the wheel alignment on my car! I hope this is of some help.

Regards Geoff Peace