Corolla Verso D4D 54 Starting Problems

[swtcorrado]

Hello All,

I had a problem with my Verso for the last couple of months. Cold starts in the morning are fine, perhaps a little laboured but generally good. The car runs fine after with no issues what so ever. The problem arrises after you stop and restart on a warm motor. It runs over fine but the engine has problems firing properly. After a half dozen turn overs it fires up and runs/drives fine.

I thought it might just need some general maintainance so I ran the tank low, used some ejector cleaner and filled up with a fresh tank. Changed the fuel and air filter and was off to the races. It seemed to help the problem a little for a while but it has reared it's ugly head with gusto. It became increasing more difficult to start on a warm motor and this morning wouldn't start at all. I had to call AA out and they eventually got it started and I was able to get home. They ran a diagnosis on the car with no error codes showing up and no warning lights on the display. The technician thought it was very strange but managed to get it run by spraying some easy starter into the intake while having me turn the motor over.

Here is a youtube video I made this morning:

I'm sure I'm not the only one to experience this problem as I believe it has something to do with the ignition system/push button starts. Possible a none choke start situation where it works on a cold engine but not on a warm. I don't know?

Any guidence is appreciated

Kind regards,

daniel

[swtcorrado]

TTT,

Please guys, I need some help!

[Cyker]

Blimey, lot of 2.0+L D4D people seem to be having this problem lately!

The current consensus for this works-when-it's-cold-but-not-when-it's-hot problem is that it's due to a flaw in the starter motor; Replacing the starter motor seems to solve the problem in most cases...

[dervdave]

Well as you know Daniel there could be many reasons so easiest first, it could caused by the fuel running back into the tank. Check the fuel filter housing and fuel line, try pumping/priming the system.

[dervdave]

See this post

ahmad1565, on 17 May 2011 - 03:07 PM, said:

Hi,

i own a corolla d4d 2.0 2003. aprx a month ago, car started facing problem for cold start but would start in 4-5 attempt and hot start was ok. Now since one week, it won't start at all. When i turn the key, engine runs but no start. glow plugs and fuel flter changed recently. do you think if something might be wrong with scv valves?

Thanks.

hi mate

at what T you experience an issue with starting? if less then 5 C -- this might be due to parafine origination inside the fuel filter. in case you experience it at T higher then the possible reasons are:

- glow plugs and their el contacts;

- injection timing;

- poor injection;

- lack of compression;

- SCVs;

- air inside of suction fuel system;

- fault with fuel injection pump.

I presume you must be focused on glow plugs;injectors; bleeding of fuel suction system + do not forget to bleed the pump body using a bolt typed plug on the pump side (do not forget to re-tight it).Cheers/Igor

[swtcorrado]

Thanks for the replies.

I've primed the fuel filter, it had plent of pressure there. I went to start the car this moring and it fired right up. But then that only plays into the "cold OK, hot not so much".

I want to reiterate that the car runs fine once started. And that the car starts fine when cold (ie over night). The problem only arrises when restarting a warm motor,

I've pulled the Battery today and I'm going to get it tested tomorrow. My theory is that the morning start is ok because the glow plugs are preheated prior to start and the engine is choked. I think that once the engine is warm the glow plugs are not used so intial combustion is not made partly due to the Battery not putting out enough cold crank amps. It's a shot in the dark but I'd like to eliminate the parts that tend to fail after after 5-6 years. the old girl is probably due for a new Battery anyways;)

I guess my orignial post was just asking whether anyone else has experienced this and what there countermeasures were?

[dervdave]

I'd like to eliminate the parts that tend to fail after after 5-6 years.

Normally a bad Battery will show when its cold not warm

I`ve read the starter motor was responsible for poor hot starting and cured after it was taken off cleaned and given a good spray with WD40

[Devon Aygo]

On the 2.0 D4d 1CD ( timing belt engines ) hot starting issues are a known issue on the Avensis & Corolla Verso with a technical service bulletin issued. Toyota has had the starter redesigned to cure the issue, the issues only appeared after the 1CD engine was discontinued.

The fault is caused by a bush failure inside the starter which slows or stops the starter cranking meaning the car either does not start until cooler or if it does start in shudders and rattles as the engine fires up

The fix was a new redesigned starter motor. part # 28100-0G020.

Devon

[swtcorrado]

On the 2.0 D4d 1CD ( timing belt engines ) hot starting issues are a known issue on the Avensis & Corolla Verso with a technical service bulletin issued. Toyota has had the starter redesigned to cure the issue, the issues only appeared after the 1CD engine was discontinued.

The fault is caused by a bush failure inside the starter which slows or stops the starter cranking meaning the car either does not start until cooler or if it does start in shudders and rattles as the engine fires up

The fix was a new redesigned starter motor. part # 28100-0G020.

Devon

Thanks Devon, this sounds like the root cause. Is there a link to the tech bulletin? What you describe is exaclty what I'm experiencing. I've been searching online for hours now and yours is the first comment that hits the nail on the head.

[Devon Aygo]

I can't publish the bulletin i'm afraid ( more than my job is worth ) but I can give you the gist:

Subject: Engine difficult to start in hot condition

Description on phenomenon: Engine has difficulty to start or does not start in hot conditions, starting is not affected in cold condition.

Production improvement: Starter motor construction has been changed to prevent internal shaft damage or misalignment during operation.

Field fix repair procedure: Affected models are now out of production so there are no parts supercessions. Replace affected starter motor with a new one.

Part required: 28100-0G020

Devon.

[swtcorrado]

Sorry, didn't realize you were in the industry Just thought your were a knowledgeable citizen. Is it possible to give the tech bulletin number?

So what's the deal with shaft misalignment? Is that the root cause? The engine seems to turn over fine, it just seems to strugggle to fire. Wouldn't misalignment prevent the engine from turning over at all? Is it a speed issue? Does the start motor not produce enough rpm when warm?

Sorry for the barage of questions but I'd like to be sure before spending $100 on a part that might not work.

Thanks in advanced.

[Devon Aygo]

No problem, the bulletin number is EG-6005.

The bulletin doesn't state what the cause of the misalignment is, but your summary is correct the heat causes the shaft to naturally expand but because it is misaligned it causes seizure/partial seizure slowing the cranking speed meaning the engine has poor compression for proper ignition making the engine shake and rattle loudly just as your video shows.

Devon

[swtcorrado]

Devon, your a star!

Here's the tech bulletin if anyone is interested:

http://users.telenet.be/robberecht/reserve/TSB_starterproblem_EG6005-TOY.pdf

So what is Toyota's position with them acknowledging the design fault? I know it isn't a recall, but sounds as though it should be. Are they leaving the consumer out to dry on this one or are they offering any assistance is fixiing the issue?

[Devon Aygo]

"So what is Toyota's position with them acknowledging the design fault? I know it isn't a recall, but sounds as though it should be. Are they leaving the consumer out to dry on this one or are they offering any assistance is fixing the issue?"

The existence of a bulletin is not entitlement to a repair if your car is under warranty and the fault occurs it is guide to the dealer to ensure a correct repair method.

As for recall only VOSA can recall a car and a faulty starter is not likely to warrant a safety recall.

Getting Toyota to pay now? As you can see in the bulletin even the youngest car affected by the bulletin is well over 7 years old now, you may IF you are the original owner with full TOYOTA service history get a small goodwill contribution but I very much doubt it.

Devon

[swtcorrado]

I agree. It may not be a safety issue but when your stranded its !Removed! inconvenient;) I work in tier one automotive so I understand all the hoops you have to jump through for test validation. The thing that gets me is that they had to make design modifications to prevent an issue of the car not starting and then expect the consumer to pay for their poor PFMEA activity.

Ah, the joys of automobile ownership!

Anyway, good information and thanks for the direction! First course of action is to give the starter a once over. If that doesn't work then new starter motor it is!

[dervdave]

On the 2.0 D4d 1CD ( timing belt engines ) hot starting issues are a known issue on the Avensis & Corolla Verso with a technical service bulletin issued. Toyota has had the starter redesigned to cure the issue, the issues only appeared after the 1CD engine was discontinued.

The fault is caused by a bush failure inside the starter which slows or stops the starter cranking meaning the car either does not start until cooler or if it does start in shudders and rattles as the engine fires up

The fix was a new redesigned starter motor. part # 28100-0G020.

Devon

Thanks Devon, this sounds like the root cause. Is there a link to the tech bulletin? What you describe is exaclty what I'm experiencing. I've been searching online for hours now and yours is the first comment that hits the nail on the head.

Cheers Daniel, don`t mention it

I`ve read the starter motor was responsible for poor hot starting and cured after it was taken off cleaned and given a good spray with WD40

[swtcorrado]

On the 2.0 D4d 1CD ( timing belt engines ) hot starting issues are a known issue on the Avensis & Corolla Verso with a technical service bulletin issued. Toyota has had the starter redesigned to cure the issue, the issues only appeared after the 1CD engine was discontinued.

The fault is caused by a bush failure inside the starter which slows or stops the starter cranking meaning the car either does not start until cooler or if it does start in shudders and rattles as the engine fires up

The fix was a new redesigned starter motor. part # 28100-0G020.

Devon

Thanks Devon, this sounds like the root cause. Is there a link to the tech bulletin? What you describe is exaclty what I'm experiencing. I've been searching online for hours now and yours is the first comment that hits the nail on the head.

Cheers Daniel, don`t mention it

I`ve read the starter motor was responsible for poor hot starting and cured after it was taken off cleaned and given a good spray with WD40

Sorry Dave, I guess just had trouble believing it. It didn't make sense that it would be something that appeared to be working just fine. It wasn't until I read the tech bulletin that I gave it any weight. You may shun me for being a non believer!!!

Time will tell. I didn't get a chance to remove it today. Looks like it will be next weekend. I'll strip it down and take pics. I'll feedback on my results so the next victim will have something to go by

[dervdave]

Sorry Dave, I guess just had trouble believing it. It didn't make sense that it would be something that appeared to be working just fine. It wasn't until I read the tech bulletin that I gave it any weight. You may shun me for being a non believer!!!

Time will tell. I didn't get a chance to remove it today. Looks like it will be next weekend. I'll strip it down and take pics. I'll feedback on my results so the next victim will have something to go by

No problem Daniel I was only having a bit frisk, best of luck my friend ;)

[oaltemir]

swtcorrado

Please, can you write what you have done to solve this problem. I have exactly the same with my Toyota Corolla Verso.

[swtcorrado]

Hi oaltemir,

I just removed the starter, disembled it, cleaned (can of brake cleaner worked a treat), and regreased all the working areas. Reassembled the bugger and it has started everytime the first time since. The sure fix is to replace with a new starter.I'll keep mine the way it is because I'm a cheap ***** and I don't mind getting my hands dirty.

Good luck!!

[Verso04]

On 30/06/2013 at 10:14 PM, swtcorrado said:

Hi oaltemir,

I just removed the starter, disembled it, cleaned (can of brake cleaner worked a treat), and regreased all the working areas. Reassembled the bugger and it has started everytime the first time since. The sure fix is to replace with a new starter.I'll keep mine the way it is because I'm a cheap ***** and I don't mind getting my hands dirty.

Good luck!!

I know this thread is 3 years old but I have had this identical issue for about 12 months.

Breakdown guy said it was my Battery which I changed. When issue continued I was told it was my glo plugs so I replaced all of them.

Issue soon returned & 3 months ago I was told it was my starter motor - which I had removed & 'professionally cleaned'.

This week its not starting at all - breakdown guy sprayed GT85 into some pipe whilst I pressed the ignition & it started immediately. 

Now I'm being told its my injectors.

Apart from being sick to death of garages conning me out of cash & not fixing problem, I am at my wits end!

Can't afford to get work done again that doesn't improve the issue

Any ideas on what I can do? Thanks

[oaltemir]

Hi,

my problem was solved with changing ( not cleaning ) my starter - 60 euro,  they told me i had to change my injectors for 2000 euro. Thanks, swtcorrado!

[Verso04]

4 hours ago, oaltemir said:

Hi,

my problem was solved with changing ( not cleaning ) my starter - 60 euro,  they told me i had to change my injectors for 2000 euro. Thanks, swtcorrado!

Thanks. I've just had fuel filter replaced today. Hadn't been done in 3 years. If that doesn't help maybe replacing starter motor will!

[oaltemir]

My problem was with warm motor, not with cold motor

[Verso04]

Mine is definitely the first start of the day. I am resigned to it being the injectors. 

I have been quoted £200 to remove, check/test the injectors.

If they are the cause then its minimum £250 per injector to resolve (£1000 for set).

Is there is a cheaper resolution?