Over-Complicated Design .....

[Hoovie]

Had my RAV4 serviced about 6 weeks ago or so and couple of weeks ago I opened up the glovebox and then could not close again.

Turned out the door to the cabin filter had fallen off. And when I went to clip it back in place, it wouldn't as the bit of plastic that locks it to place on the cabin filter housing (rather then the door itself) had broken - I am assuming this happened in the service rather as it was ok before then for a year.

Now the over complicated bit .... Car went in today to get it sorted out and got a call to say need to rebook it in another time as it is a TWO DAY JOB to replace the plastic cabin filter holder as the complete dashboard has to come out!

Quite amazing how something like that cannot be unclipped and removed! I know it this was not a warranty repair, my own repair solution would be to tape the door closed and just put on new tape each 10,000 miles after each filter change. Instead this repair will presumably cost Toyota around £500 or more? I wonder if I could forfeit the repair and swap it for the cash ;)

[Davrav]

Hoovie, go with the tape.

Don't let them take out the dash - it'll never be the same, especially after they've prised all the plastic bits off with a blunt screwdriver.

Mine had to come out, under warranty, for the heater to be sorted. Bruised the radio surround and other trim, under dash shrouds ill fitting and creaks and rattles. 'A' pillar trims kept falling off where they had been forced, incorrectly back into place [they are £80 each plus VAT - 'How would you like to pay Sir?' You can imagine my response to that..........]

[grasshopper]

I agree use tape or velcro or some form of fastener - you wont see it as it's hidden. Removing the dash will be the death of your car. I had a stereo replaced in my IS200 years ago and Lexus scratched the centre console - they used a magic repair - which was OK but I knew it was there and never the same IMO, especially as I paid £19K for it 1 year old - imagine what damage you'll get from a complete removal!

[Hoovie]

You peeps have made some good points there :). I have heard a lot of tales of woe about the aftermath of Dash Removal and it did make me wonder if I should let them do it!

[firemac]

You peeps have made some good points there :). I have heard a lot of tales of woe about the aftermath of Dash Removal and it did make me wonder if I should let them do it!

I agree. Go with a little strip of velcro - it will probably be a more durable solution than the orig plastic clip.

[DjRav]

Tell them you'll put up with it for a free service IOU!

They should jump at the lesser expense.

Dave

[anchorman]

Well I don't. If they broke one clip that required a £10,000 repair on mine they should pay and put it back to the condition they found it. I would however write to TGB and tell them so they could not claim it back. If they employ rock apes they should stand by the consequence.

If YOU break something that is fine and if you are happy to patch it up that also but if they are charging you £100 + VAT an hour for skilled labour they should keep the rock ape on a leash.

[roger_37]

+1 i concur.

[firemac]

Well I don't. If they broke one clip that required a £10,000 repair on mine they should pay and put it back to the condition they found it. I would however write to TGB and tell them so they could not claim it back. If they employ rock apes they should stand by the consequence.

If YOU break something that is fine and if you are happy to patch it up that also but if they are charging you £100 + VAT an hour for skilled labour they should keep the rock ape on a leash.

If the rock apes can't properly replace a plastic grille, what sort of condition is the dash going to be in when they've finished with it? I agree with your principle but common sense says don't let them screw up a bigger component.

[Manxrav]

Have to agree with Don on this one.

Regards Clare

[IanXT4]

While I agree with Anchorman in principle.

We live in the real world, getting them to remove and replace the dash is just an obvious "car crash" waiting to happen.

My guess they will do the job on a cold car with brittle plastics and reuse clips etc they should really replace. This leave you with a job you cannot fully check as the majority of it will be deep in the dash.

Then many months later as these reused worn clips start giving you will have the mother of all squeaky dash boards.

(this is assuming they can even remove and replace the dash without scratching it !!)

If it were me I would explain your concerns, and negotiate a free service or some other sign of good will.

[CharlieFarlie]

I do agree with the principle that they broke it they should fix it no matter what the cost involved...

I do question allowing the removal of the dash to fix what is in reality an easily fixable DIY prospect.. Whether you get the best and most concientios technician or a rock ape you will not know till after the job is done...

My suggestion is to ask for 2 free services in lieu of the repair which you can easily do yourself and is out of sight anyway ?

[Big Kev]

NAW HOOVIE NAW HOOVIE NAW HOOVIE

Velcros are us.....!!!!!!!

[IanXT4]

Velcro's for girls and sewing, give me a cable tie any day :D

[anchorman]

How on earth do you break it? The lid hooks under a plasic bridge formed in the body of the heater housing. I can actually change a cabin filter by sitting in the passenger seat and reaching under the dash doing it from feel. When hooked properly there is no resisitance to close it. Or did he just snatch it instead of hinging it away from the body?

This person has broken the body of a heater made from super tough ABS plastic. Taking the dash out is the least of your worries as they will have to strip the heater to do it. Tell them you want to meet the person who will do it. Put a face to the person and tell them that you will be inspecting every inch of the job when it is done including taking the glove box out to check inside. Give them the impression you will be a PITA if it isn't right and you can rest assured they will put their best man on it. You usually find they have a good diagnostics man, a good engine man and a good interior trim person. The rest of the trained apes are paid semi skilled labour rates for changing oil and breaking heater for which the dealer kindly charges you the full going rate. For the politically correct, read "man" as person which could include one of the very skilled females that are occasionally found in dealerships. Now kiss my @ss with your PC garbage.

For me warranty work is a necessary evil. I would risk my warranty rather than pay somebody to mishandle my 28k car. I do an interim oil change for a friend who has a full service done at a main dealer. We have to drop the filter and the filter drain plug as one so we get covered in oil every time we do it. This is because the mighty Joe Young has tightened it so tight that I cannot seperate them even in my vice without fear of breaking the expensive looking housing DESPITE it being embossed with the torque setting (25Nm from memory or put another way, nipped with gentle pressure that I have a special low scale torgue wrench for - you could do it with one finger on a normal spanner). And another thing. I have yet to drop a bottom underguard off a RAV that has a full set of clips holding it on after it has been to a dealer. I dropped Kevs and mine off for underwaxing without even marking a clip in such a way you would even know they have been off so why do they come back bent, mauled and missing by somebody who does them every day?

If I were a were a workshop manager I would be their worst nightmare and if I saw a car that was not being treated with respect and I would take delight in showing them the way to one of the high street ape houses (the kind that specialise in kwik jobs). A good example is our Scandinavian friend on youtube who shows us how to fit SCVs. Nice two colour boiler suite, nice well lit workshop, nice and really nice tools. Nice articulate use of English - far better than my Swedish then knocks a pair of precision made metering valves in to a push fit pricision very expensive high pressure pump with an effing hammer (Teng of Sweden no doubt), then posts it as proud as punch on the www. It was one of his saxon relatives that broke your heater Hoovie, make them put it right.

[Hoovie]

well, I think I am going to NOT get the box fixed if it involves a dash strip-out as the potential consequences far outweigh the benefits of being able to clip a door into place instead of tape it.

I will have this defect registered as outstanding so should in the future the dash need to be removed for a more serious fault, this can be done at the same time. As I still have 40 months warranty remaining, there is no immediate rush to get it sorted anyway.

I am doubtful that I can swap this warranty repair for something like a service as the garage would have to absorb the cost of a service whereas they can just pass the warranty work bill to Toyota GB to pay.

Still find it incredible that such a simple thing can be so involved a job to fix! While at the dealer on Thursday, I got a price for an Avensis Boot Lip Spoiler - supply, paint and fit - for a customer, and that was £380, which while very expensive, would turn out to be less then sorting a plastic clip

[anchorman]

Warranty only covers faulty manufacture not shoddy workmanship. The garage would have to construct some other reason for changing the heater box but I understand your reasons and the previous comments about brittle plastic etc.

£500 isn't the cost of the clip it is the cost of the heater. The same would apply by stripping the thread in a gearbox oil drain plug. There is no helicoil for that type of thread so it would need a new gearbox casing and not a new drain plug. The trouble is that a gearbox casing might well come with the entire contents of the box just like a heater box might come complete with the motor and other gubbins and then things start getting expensive.

The travesty isn't the cost of the repair it is the fact that you paid skilled labour rates to have that done and if your top glove box hadn't jammed you would have been left with it cobbled up instead of the cretin coming clean about your entrusted possesion. If you were refurbing a very expensive wheel and you dropped it and ruined the inner rim would you put the wheel back on in the hope they wouldn't notice?

[Hoovie]

so .... you think the garage may be footing the bill for the repair and not passing it to Toyota? interesting .... i may investigate that aspect further and see if I can get the next service in lieu of a repair

My £500 comment was based around labour charges or maybe 7.5 hours and hadn't even considered parts at all!

[anchorman]

My feeling is that if they submit a claim to Toyota it won't say that "one of our rock apes bust it through being ham fisted". It will say "heater case found to be distorted after customer complained of excessive noise" or some other similar bull poo.

[Tech01]

Spot-on, Don. The dash will never be the same again. If a broken piece of plastic, could it be superglued?

C.

[IanXT4]

My favourite fix for plastic failures is a hot glue gun. You can glue something back then add some more re-inforcement with extra layers. Plus its easy to trim and there are different types of glue/plastic for different jobs. In some cases you can end up with a fix that is better than the original.

However, in this case I would probably stick with a removable fix ie tape, therwise if the heater ever fails there is always the possibility some Jobsworth will blame the glue for the failure and refuse a genuine warranty claim.