4.4 Feedback.

[Gods_gift]

Is the 4.4 going to have a 7 seat option seeing as it's longer?

Have a google on Audi 3.0 diesels in general, loads of issues with injectors I believe (was told by an Audi fitter).

[Plutus]

I drove the Q5 recently (not the 2012 facelift though). The 2.0 177 bhp engine is the one to compare with the new Rav, quite a bit cheaper than the 3.0. It is more than match for the Toyota 2.2, it is faster, quieter and noticeably better mpg.

I nearly bought one but the lack of a left footrest meant I had to say no (I have a dodgy left ankle).as it aggravated the old injury.

Interior quality will be much higher I suspect.

[CharlieFarlie]

Please lets not de generate this thread into one having a pop at every car that is in the opposition ? Let us remember ALL cars including the Rav 4 have had problems ?

[Gods_gift]

Anyone know if theres a 7 seat option?

[CharlieFarlie]

Anyone know if theres a 7 seat option?

Not sure if the car is large enough for 7 seats ?. It is quite an improvement behind the seats even when the rears are right back.. But enough for a pair of folders ? Doubt it.

[anchorman]

There are no plans for a 7 seat option here or in the US.

[anchorman]

I went for a play with a 4.4 today. I also took some photos that you might find surprising. This compares the 4.3 with the 4.4;

I think it gives the impression from publicity docs that it is proportioned more like an estate because of the rising waistline towards the back. In fact the proportions are very similar. So, lets have a look at the length. I positioned my car as best as I could, level with the front of the 4.4;

..........and the back comes out like this;

BTW my car was clean when I set of from Chapel, 11 miles away. Just to finish off, a couple more views with the cars sisde by side;

All courtesy of RRG Macclesfield and our friend Richard McKay.

What was it like to drive? It has similar quite stiff suspension carried over from the European version. I am quite pleased about this as the US versions I have driven are a bit too soft and wallowy for my liking. The next thing that is very apparent is the ambiance inside the car. It has the same feel as a saloon car rather than a utility vehicle. Let my try to expand on that. In my car you can hear the odd creak from movement in the rear seats and parcel shelf especially on rough ground and you can get a kind of arena effect from the large interior. You can't in the 4.4, it is absolutely silent and virtually free of road noise. The engine is left as the only noise left which sounds quite remote due to sound deadening and it is accompanied by quite a satisfying whine which muffles the diesel sound. It was brand new so I didn't push it but it was very apparent that it had the same poke at least as my current 150. There are several comment s about this 2AD being old technology but my feeling is this; that engine is nudging 7 years old and at the time of launch was way ahead of its rivals. It is a chain driven twin cam 16v common rail diesel with a hollow crank, lightwieght pistons, crossflow head with apex combustion chambers. There are counter balance weights in the crank case to even out vibration. It has all the latest in electronic ancillaries and piezo injectors. All the other manufacturers that have brought out high powered diesels since have either come out with a similar design or or one that doesn't even match it. Of course you can get more power from it, we have seen this one run at 180 bhp and chipped ones in excess of 200 bhp. However, you don't measure engine performance by bhp, you measure it by torque. Put it this way, if you raced a new 4.4 with a new Kuga, it wouldn't be down to engine power who won. It would be down to handling and the skill of the driver. WE have the best handling 4X4 in the world and we also have an engine that has had all the gremlins engineered out and tuned to excellent performance.

My money is on the RAV.

Would I buy one? Probably. I think colour choice is important to match the black plastic skirting. I do think the shorter body versions are more nicely proportioned.

BTW, I met our own lovely Stella and her family who was there at the same time by coincidence.

[anchorman]

This compares the rear openings;

The boot light is in the boot where it should be;

.....and this is where the wheel will be from July. Forget getting a full size spare in there unless the boot floor is raised.

[bigend]

Thanks for posting those pic's Don, think the 4.3 still looks better proportioned, don't like the high window line over the rear doors.

Keith

[Plutus]

I'm surprised about the ride being bumpy (as a few have said and What Car). Lengthening the wheelbase usually makes for a smoother ride.

I agree with you about bhp, but it's the mpg & CO2 that let it down.

Looks aren't as important to me so no real problem there.

[philip42h]

Don,

Thanks for posting these. I was surprised. The cars are different of course, but in the same colour I had to check several times which was which. I'll go and have a look myself next week but I'm unlikely to be able to park mine right alongside.

It was brand new so I didn't push it but it was very apparent that it had the same poke at least as my current 150...

Of course you can get more power from it, we have seen this one run at 180 bhp and chipped ones in excess of 200 bhp. However, you don't measure engine performance by bhp, you measure it by torque...

I'd rather assume that the engine and probably gearbox in the new 2.2 Auto are identical to that in your SR150 - the same D-CAT producing 150 DIN hp and 340 Nm torque. As you say it's the torque that really counts. My SR180 produces 177 DIN hp and 400 NM torque - i.e. 17.6% more torque.

Given that the 4.4 is near enough exactly the same weight as the 4.3 it should accelerate away pretty much the same as yours does today, and just that little bit slower than mine can manage (or at least could when it was similarly 'new').

Whether that matters or not (to me) I won't know 'til I take a 4.4 for a drive ... ;)

[Big Kev]

Nice wan Don, and try as I may, I just cannot see Estate Car anywhere in the 4.4......it really is growing on me. As a retired corrugated fibreboard packaging expert, I have had estate cars.....had any been like the 4.4, I would still be working.

Big Kev

[flyboyprowler]

Excellent review Don, and nice to read your thoughts. Am I alone in thinking that the majority of new models, whichever the make, are prone to firm / hard suspension. I am going to seek out the euro version in Spain, when I get back next week, but my local Mr T says it is not launched till mid March. Spookily, the brochure also mentions the electric sun roof as an option, Huzar! but no pictures anywhere. Lovely colour, it has to be the dark colours for me.

[Davrav]

Excellent comparison Don. Thank you for taking the time. The load area looks a lot more functional and useful than the 4.3 but I just can't warm to the front end. I imagine that the 4.4 is going to become a favourite for families [which is where I suspect Mr T is aiming it]

[anchorman]

Don,

Thanks for posting these. I was surprised. The cars are different of course, but in the same colour I had to check several times which was which. I'll go and have a look myself next week but I'm unlikely to be able to park mine right alongside.

It was brand new so I didn't push it but it was very apparent that it had the same poke at least as my current 150...

Of course you can get more power from it, we have seen this one run at 180 bhp and chipped ones in excess of 200 bhp. However, you don't measure engine performance by bhp, you measure it by torque...

I'd rather assume that the engine and probably gearbox in the new 2.2 Auto are identical to that in your SR150 - the same D-CAT producing 150 DIN hp and 340 Nm torque. As you say it's the torque that really counts. My SR180 produces 177 DIN hp and 400 NM torque - i.e. 17.6% more torque.

Given that the 4.4 is near enough exactly the same weight as the 4.3 it should accelerate away pretty much the same as yours does today, and just that little bit slower than mine can manage (or at least could when it was similarly 'new').

Whether that matters or not (to me) I won't know 'til I take a 4.4 for a drive ... ;)

As well as torque Phil you need to look at the graphs to see how the torque is delivered. There is about 700 rpm spread on the T180 but about 1300 rpm on the 150. Just makes things a bit more flexible when driving and you don't get that "running out of steam" feel as easily on the 150 when you pass something.

[vivianM]

Well it should be just over a week before my Invincble A/T arrives -yes it is about 10inches longer but not quite as wide as my T180.

Sunshine roof is not included as standard as someone said, and SatNav expensive extra at £750.00. Lifting tailgate is excellent, especially the lift height can be preset and the leather Invincble seats are very comfordable and give a much better grip than my T180 ones.

The longer wheel base should give a better ride than existing models, with a little less pitch on speed humps. Plenty of space for a spare wheel - will see if my 18in spare fits or see what Totoya comes up with in mid 2013.

Not too sure that I am very keen on the front riding lights as I have a thing about so many cars travelling in bright daylight with these very bright lights (and some more fancy than practical!). We will see.

When Achorman has had a good look at it ( and he has a secret project for it !!!) I will report much further.

Guy

[CharlieFarlie]

The new car certainly makes the previous one look dated..

On engines I feel Toyota has missed the opportunity to make the car a class leader instead of an also ran..

150 BHP and the MPG figures are no longer acceptable when other manufacturers are building engines with one heck of a lot more power and significantly better MPG which with fuel again last £7 a gallon and rising is a hard pill to swallow..

Essentially to me this is a fresh new car that in build quality is a leap forward and a fresh if corporate look but held down by the same old engine..

I appreciate that some of the more fuel efficient engines are 6 cylinder and that costs but configure a top range car with all th options and we are in a truly premium market place... Another clear departure from the original concept Rav4... For me a far better car but so far from that concept that many seem to have liked and miss......

[Big Kev]

Well it should be just over a week before my Invincble A/T arrives -yes it is about 10inches longer but not quite as wide as my T180.

Sunshine roof is not included as standard as someone said, and SatNav expensive extra at £750.00. Lifting tailgate is excellent, especially the lift height can be preset and the leather Invincble seats are very comfordable and give a much better grip than my T180 ones.

The longer wheel base should give a better ride than existing models, with a little less pitch on speed humps. Plenty of space for a spare wheel - will see if my 18in spare fits or see what Totoya comes up with in mid 2013.

Not too sure that I am very keen on the front riding lights as I have a thing about so many cars travelling in bright daylight with these very bright lights (and some more fancy than practical!). We will see.

When Achorman has had a good look at it ( and he has a secret project for it !!!) I will report much further.

Guy

May you continue in such rude health and continued longevity to enjoy, Guyster. Watch him with his secret projects......bits go missing and he builds other cars.....

[Plutus]

Decent review from the Telegraph

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/car-manufacturers/toyota/9900351/Toyota-RAV4-review.html

[Guest]

Just seen my first 13 plate 4.4 Rav, was filling up near the Toyota dealer and as I drove off it was in front of me (trade plates) being delivered to the customer, they delivered mine the night before last year, Decuma grey but don't know how you tell the difference between the models?

Gus

[vivianM]

Well I hope to be able to report next Tueday as my Invincible A/T should be collected from RRG Macclesfield and it will not have a sun roof as a standard fitting. The leather seats on the demo car are very comfordable and much nearer to real "bucket seats" than my T180.

That might be for sale at RRG Macclefield very soon as it is going in part/ex - less than 23,000 miles from new in 2008 and goes like a rocket - a super car and I am only changing it as I had a bit of a windfall from a bank !

Might also be a new T180 18 in wheel and tyre - all brand new for sale from me martinguy@aol.com

Watch this space as Anchorman has a special project for the new one - all will be revealed in a couple of weeks !!!

Best wishes to all

Guy

[Davrav]

Watch this space as Anchorman has a special project for the new one - all will be revealed in a couple of weeks !!!

Best wishes to all

Guy

'Cut and Shut' 3 door conversion?

[Parts-King]

Watch this space as Anchorman has a special project for the new one - all will be revealed in a couple of weeks !!!

Tin opener for the roof and add a tank style hatch?

[anchorman]

Pimp his ride

[Big Kev]

Pimp his ride

In Glasgow that means to pass wind in his car.........