Aygo Burning Oil

[NorfolkSimon]

Hello, we have a 57 plate Aygo Blue with 67000 miles. It had a full service 5 months ago with 62000 miles on the clock by a garage I trust and last week I got a red flashing STOP on the dashboard. I stopped and didn't know what the problem was but thought to check the oil level and the dipstick was bone dry. Luckily the place I stopped was a garage so I left it with them to check. They put more oil in for me and said it needed fillng, not just a litre or so. I then booked it in with my trusted garage to find out what is going wrong. I was certain it wasn't losing oil through a leak as such because I haven't noticed slicks after parking it anywhere. I dropped the car off with the garage today and got the bad news this afternoon. They say it definitely isn't a leak, but believe it to be an internal engine fault. Without stripping it down they couldn't say for sure, but suspect it to be valve stem seals. The garage isn't an Aygo specialist so suggested I find out whether Aygo's get through a lot of oil usually. I've done a search on this forum and found one post where someone was asking whether they should buy a spare bottle and most of the replies were along the lines of "you shouldn't need to", and I when googling I can't see any results that would suggest this is a common problem, Also I checked the knowledgebase and FAQs on this site. (Yes, we do have a water leak into the boot, and after reading the leaks database posts I am going to check the raised brake light seal). Has anyone else known their car to get through all of it's oil in 5000 miles?

Thanks for reading this essay :)

[Raistlin]

Never come across this, I don't remember ever adding oil just had it serviced

[Geriatric]

Not checking the oil level in 5 months is not good. The engine only takes 3.5litres and if nothing showing on the dip stick and the oil pressure light coming on you have been driving with inadequate oil and will be lucky if you have not sustained damage to the engine. The camshaft chain can suffer and lead to premature failure. What quantity of oil did the garage have to add?

Oil burnt through valve stem seals would produce blue smoke and would show by reving the engine.

Check the oil regularly to ascertain current usage. Even trusted garages can slip up!

There have been people with similar experience of running till oil pressure light came on and they have been lucky but regular checking oil level is a necessity.

[NorfolkSimon]

Thanks for your comments Raistlin and Geri. I've heard from a Peugeot lead tech today that they haven't heard of any 107s with this issue either. I realise it isn't good to run a car with no oil Geri, but didn't realise it would need checking so often. It's only done 5000 miles since the last full service. I recently got rid of a 161,000 mile 52 plate diesel Mondeo that would use no discernible amounts of oil between annual services. I know it had a bigger sump than 3-ish litres but I was doing 16000 miles a year in that. Its replacement, a Berlingo, hasn't shown any sign of using any oil either. Anyone know who makes the engine? Not VW by any chance is it ;)

Maybe it's just me being lazy. I will certainly be checking it much more regularly now :)

[Daddyslaphead]

Already very well covered by other replys, but for whatever my opinion may be worth it definitely shouldn't be going through oil as you have described. A properly maintained engine in good overall condition will not burn oil to any noticieable degree (contrary to what some people think, an engine will always burn a small amount but not so much as to be noticeable if all is OK). Your car is around average mileage and assuming that it has been reasonably driven and maintained then oil consumption shouldn't be noticeable between services. It could be down to worn valve stems, seals or guides but at around 62K even that is unusual.

I'm a bit surprised that the garage suggested you check on-line to see if Aygos burn oil. OK they aren't a Toyota specialist but the mechanical basics of the internal combustion engine are the same irrespective. No modern, properly maintained car with 62K on the clock should burn the amount of oil yours does. It sounds to me like the garage isn't confident of it's diagnosis.

Anyway, the problem isn't going to go away so I think you'll have to bight the bullet and get it diagnosed properly (there are tests that can be done) and fixed otherwise you'll have an early engine failure. BTW if it's burning that much oil it won't pass a MOT emmisions check.

DSH

[NorfolkSimon]

Thanks DSH, . I think you are right - my garage weren't overly confident of their diagnosis and they were really just confirming to me that it was burning the oil not dropping it on the floor. They mentioned some engines get through a lot of oil, (I read VW have said an engine using 1 litre of oil per 1,000km is acceptable!), and that the sump in an Aygo is small, and tbh I told them the car had probably done 8k since the last service. (It was only later when I checked that it had only done 5k). So this was just a warning from them that whatever the underlying fault it was likely to be expensive. Their diagnosis was free and didn't want to go into it any further without speaking to me.

My next step is to to speak to the Citroen dealership just round the corner from where I work. Hu hum.

[MikeSh]

What you don't say is how long you've had the car. If not much longer than since that service then it could have been burning oil before (which would be a good reason to pass the expense on to someone else).

If you have had it longer and this has only occurred recently I'd have to ask if your 'trusted' garage put the right oil in at the service. The wrong type or viscosity could lead to excessive use, especially if it attacked some of the seals (though you don't seem to have any bottom end leaks at least).

[NorfolkSimon]

Had the car for 18 months. It did run low at one point but I spotted it and topped it up (it was only at the minimum) and it was before we'd ever put it near a garage so I didn't know how long it had been like that. I think given going from full to empty in 5000 miles that it must have got worse. The garage definitely put the right oil in at the service, 5w30.

Thank you all for the replies. Think it might be going to webuyanycar...

[AlanTR]

If you have a garage, lay down newspaper and park your car over it with a hot engine. Check for oil leaks in the morning.

Worn valve guides and leaking stem seals will lead to increased oil consumption. Seriously worn piston rings and cylinder liners will also increase oil consumption. Is the car's exhaust showing any signs of bluish tinged smoke as this indicates that the engine is burning lubeoil?

You could get a compression test done on the engine, this will show up worn piston rings and cylinder liners - and leaking inlet/exhaust valves of course. It will give you a good idea of the condition of the engine. Low compression can mean a cylinder head overhaul is required, it can also mean the engine has other more expensive problems.

A well-maintained car, which is driven with some care, using the correct engine oil with 67K miles on the clock should be exhibiting some very small signs of wear but it should not be eating large amounts of oil. The engine oil lubricates and cools - running around with an almost empty sump will accelerate engine wear and of course can lead to a total "melt down". Check your oil level every week or at the very least every month.

[Lakeuk]

Back in Oct the Oil warning and STOP warning lights blipped on a few times during the journey to work, this was just before my next 10k service was due. Seeing the lights was disconcerting and when I got back I topped it up with 1.5lt of oil, then had a read through the user manual to see what the STOP light mean't and whether I needed to get it service asap - manual says if both the lights occasional flicker when engine is idle or briefly after a hard stop then it's no cause for concern - on the day in question I'd done a heavy brake on a hill and a heavy cornering.

It's nearly another 10k on the clock and today my oil/stop lights blipped again, not too concerned as I was hard cornering at the time and I did a hard brake to double check. I've added 0.5l of oil and didn't get the lights when I did a test heavy brake, I did wonder if I have an engine issue with it coming up again or whether it's one of those things with a high mileage car.

Consulted the user manual on oil consumption and it's normal consume more oil when doing high-speed driving and frequent acceleration which is a driving habit that I've done alot more this winter with the weather being so mixed - cold, windy, wet (normally I'm a 55mph driver). Manual says it's possible to consume upto 1.6lt per 1000miles, so since it works out for me I've consumed 1.6lt across 10k miles, it must be normal.

One lesson, check my oil level more often - one thing I find difficult on my Aygo, in my old megane the dip stick was metal and oil dark through use so easy to read, but on my Aygo the oil never gets old enough to blacken and on a black dip stick the level is difficult to see, I have to touch the stick with my finger till it starts getting tacky to work out the level.

[NorfolkSimon]

Lafeuk - thanks for replying. Tthe manual says 1.6lt per 1000 miles or per 10000 miles? Regardless of this, the car is going to webuyanycar today, unless of course they offer a price that makes me run away, which is more than possible.

AlanTR - thanks for taking the time to reply also. Again, I do know that an engine needs oil, but I appreciate your other comments :)

[Brentus]

Just as an FYI.

My Aygo go's from full oil (Filter and new oil change) to flashing stop light (on corners) in about 6k miles.

Top up with the rest of the 5L carton at that point and I have now got to 8.5K miles and the light is flashing again.

Will filter and oil change again at the weekend and start the cycle again to see how far it gets.

57 plate

73k miles on it.

100 miles a day commute, most of it (~85 miles) at motorway speeds (70-80 on the speedo).

[TheDrewster]

VVTI engines are known for drinking fuel, apparently this is to do with Toyota putting in piston rings that are too small for the job. How long they last varies per engine. Mine goes through about 10-14 litres a year driving about 20k per year.

[AlanTR]

Just as an FYI.

My Aygo go's from full oil (Filter and new oil change) to flashing stop light (on corners) in about 6k miles.

Top up with the rest of the 5L carton at that point and I have now got to 8.5K miles and the light is flashing again.

Will filter and oil change again at the weekend and start the cycle again to see how far it gets.

57 plate

73k miles on it.

100 miles a day commute, most of it (~85 miles) at motorway speeds (70-80 on the speedo).

It is far better to check the oil level regularly and top up small amounts. Running the car until you get the oil light warning and then topping up, is not a good idea. Maintaining a full or near full charge of oil is far better for the engine and will help keep the oil temperature within normal limits during sustained high speed motoring on motorways, especially in hot summer weather. Excessive oil temperature reduces viscosity to a level which results in accelerated engine wear.

Running with minimum or close to minimum oil levels does have an adverse effect on the lubricating properties of the oil. Oil appearance changes as the oil gets older and dirtier, this is obvious by the colour getting darker as time goes on - this progresses faster if you run with minimum oil levels. Wear contaminants in the oil do get filtered out, but not all of them. A low oil level means that any contaminants will exist as a higher percentage of the total oil charge. Basically, more crap in the oil means greater engine wear. If your car is burning more oil because it's a high mileage car, then check the oil every week and top up to max oil level.

[eygo]

if its valve stem oils seals you will find that you get a puff of smoke on start up from cold,when the oil is hot and thin it can seap past the oil seals and either sit on top of the piston or on top of the valves and as soon as you start up this oil is burnt off,if its burning constantly then you could have worn rings

[Nigemeister]

Not sure if this will help but my wife has a 59 plate Aygo with 54k on clock. Toyota dealer last serviced with 5w30 which I didn't expect as manual says 0w20 and I was topping up with 0w20 which I had purchased from online car parts retailer. Would have used 5w30 if I had only read the service receipt properly. Anyway, the car has consumed the 1ltr top up in about 8k much to my annoyance as I thought it a bit unreasonable. I check oil every week, old habits die hard. Anyway, thought I would try Mobil 1 0w20 for almost £23 per ltr. Hey presto, no more oil consumption and smoother running. Mpg seems better too, not quantified this though. The engine seems to be like my wife, it has expensive taste. Worth a try, unless that is what you were already using.