2003 Avensis, Excessive White Smoke...

[BigMo82]

Booked it in for next week Tuesday morning.

Mo

[Druid Boy]

Bet ya there's nothing wrong with it. Bet ya they will be only too happy to clean the throttle body and idle control valve. Bet ya they say it isn't necessary to clean them but that they will if you really want them too.

Bet ya that if I'm wrong I'm going to look like a prat. Bet ya it won't be the last time I look like a prat.

[cooper12000]

well i personaly know the garage if its the one i recomended,... and have never had an issue with them.... infact all the staff there have been extreemly helpfull and taken the time to explain how to do stuff myself and given support over the phone.

yes there r cheaper garages around here but i would rather pay the extra 10 quid an hour than take my cars back to a diff garage in the area that dropped a nut down the spark plug hole and promptly let me drive off when i complained they tried to tell me it wasnt them it must of bounced off the bulk head through the air intake through the carb through the inlet manifold through the inlet valve with out doing any damage but put great gouges in the piston head and combustion chamber as well as bending the exhaust vavle as bits passed out.

coop

[BigMo82]

Druid boy that made me laugh mate. It's the most random reply yet but as always it's appreciated. They will do a compression check and clean the throttle body and idle control valve both of which need doing. I use my car daily to commute to and from work so reliability is a must and it will put my mind at ease knowing a professional has given it a once over.

Mo

[Druid Boy]

[Konrad C]

sorry konrad didnt realise u had offered help i miss read what u had said didnt mean to stand on ya toes sorry.

coop

No apologies needed Coop.

I need to make sure my comments makes sense so that they are not miss read.

If I did see a black Avensis smoking on a warm day like yesterday evening, I would have guessed it was Mo - I went to Sutton via Sidcup, Bromley and Croydon. On my journey I saw a few similar cars and they were all clean.

Mo, did your car behave?

[BigMo82]

Yesterday was all good but this morning it returned and what's strange is that the car was driven at 2am and then left in a warm underground car park.

I keep thinking its something within the manifold, cats, or exhaust system like a gasket or something?

This morning I could see it all the way from work to home (night shift). Again mainly when pulling away. The only other vehicles I saw on the road with a similar exhaust smoke was the big motorbikes.

Oh and I'm more SW London mate although I am around croydon quite often. Nice to know someone is out there monitoring other Avensis's for me.

Mo

[Konrad C]

I should add that I do take my car to a garage on occasions, to do big jobs like the clutch.

More recently I have done all of the work myself - they were fusible link (shorted the alternator when trying to release engine block coolant drain plug), crankshaft pulley, coolant change, and general oil and filter changes.

It is just a matter of finding a good garage and avoiding the rogue ones, if you have to get professional help.

[Konrad C]

Yesterday was all good but this morning it returned and what's strange is that the car was driven at 2am and then left in a warm underground car park.

I keep thinking its something within the manifold, cats, or exhaust system like a gasket or something?

This morning I could see it all the way from work to home (night shift). Again mainly when pulling away. The only other vehicles I saw on the road with a similar exhaust smoke was the big motorbikes.

Oh and I'm more SW London mate although I am around croydon quite often. Nice to know someone is out there monitoring other Avensis's for me.

Mo

Hi Mo,

Yes I have been through Croydon and Wallington Carshalton and Sutton areas recently.

Another thing to note is that the temperature has dropped a little, so more condensation will show from the exhaust.

Now if your car has a little white smoke during this much cooler weekend, I would not worry. If you had smoke during the warm days then I would worry. You say you work nights when it is cooler than the days.

As I said before, when you are out on a very warm day, the car should barely be smoking.

Since you are not loosing any fluids I would not worry. You could have a 'sniffer' test carried out by a garage if you really concerned - this checks the coolant system for combustion gases which would indicate a head gasket leak.

Konrad

[BigMo82]

Thanks for the reply Konrad, I already tried a block test which is a tube with blue liquid and it didn't change colour so that was reassuring.

Mo

[BigMo82]

Ok I took the car to the garage Cooper had recommended. On the way there a big stone flew up and hit the car door and left some nasty chips on the door. (Thank you M20!). Gave the car in and got them to check it over. They charged me an hour and a half labour which was £99. They carried out the compression test which came back as 170, 170, 170, 150. Cylinder 4 was low but they said this was acceptable and it was running fine.

They also cleaned the throttle body and said there was no idle control valve and that this was actually a part of the throttle body. Problem is since picking it up the idle was now dropping down to 400rpm! I called them but they have advised that all they did was clean it and nothing else. After driving it for a while the idle has come upto just under 600 but this still makes the car vibrate unite badly. The revs move up when momentarily when I move the steering but then drop again.

Any ideas? I almost wish I had never got this touched. It's gone from a bad idle to an unbearable one.

Mo

[garethpaul]

bummer :(

Depending on how dirty your throttle body was, it may be worth resetting your ECU so it relearns running parameters from scratch.

Then take it for a short drive and see if it is any better.

You can do this by removing the ECU fuse in the engine bay for 30 secs, or by removing the Battery terminal for the same. You will lose radio settings etc doing it this way though.

[cooper12000]

im sorry u have had a bad experience with them.

silly idea have they put the throttle cable back correctly (if it has one). who was it that u spoke to on the phone. was the idle bad when u picked it up from the garage.

coop

[Druid Boy]

Didn't they even offer to have a look at it if you fetched it back to them? I would have thought that they would have wanted the opportunity to check it over and put your mind at ease.

[BigMo82]

No I called them 2 times and was polite but they just said we didn't do anything other then clean it and put it back. The idle is soo bad now the smoke isn't even a concern anymore.

Coop no need to apologise mate you did me and them a favour recommending them to me and i appreciatte you going out your way and for all your advice over the past few months.

I got the car from them and drove straight out and onto the motorway. As soon as I then slowed down to stop the revs just dropped straight down to 400rpm.

If I had left with my car being the same as when it went in I could live with that but to spend money and come back worse then when it went in is disappointing. Will try to reset the ecu with the Battery and see if that helps.

Mo

[BigMo82]

Coop it was a young guy I spoke to, mid to late 20's.

Mo

[cooper12000]

did u get my pm? i guess as it was left the garage ok it isnt the throttle cable... i only suggested it because i had a rover 25 and put the cable the wrong way round on the throttle butterfly took me ages to figure out why the idle was at 2k.

coop

[BigMo82]

Coop sorry for the late reply mate. I got your PM and will follow up on it tomorrow. I have left the Battery disconnected at work tonight and will plug it back in when I leave work in the morning to see if there's any difference. Is there any removable parts on the throttle body that could be causing this?

I thought it might be related to the alternator but even today when I was driving with lights, cd and heater completely off the revs were still dipping as low as 500 which really makes the car vibrate. It seems to get worse after the car has been driven a few miles as I guess that's when the cold start is completely off and the engines upto temp.

Mo

[cooper12000]

Did the garage compleatly remove ur throttle body to clean it??? as i have read on ur other post that others had to reset the throttle possition sensor, why this would only affect the car when warm i have no idea but a few people reported this issue. Does the avensis have an automatic choke??? sounds like its out of wack and trimming the fuel too much.

Oddly enough tues night i put the heater on at about 19 degrees cos there was a chill in the air when i was driving home and noticed the revs were up at 1100 when idle didnt matter how many times i bliped the throtle it always settled at 1100. when i turned the heater off went down to 900 (usual place) put the heater on cold and they climbed to 1000.

If u want to check ya alternator all u need do is put a multimeter across the Battery with the engine running and u should get around 14 volts.

i wish the cars had the same systems as back in the day..... things were sooooooo much simpler. these days all they have all these sensors and if u realy want to diagnose faults u end up paying a fortune for expencive diagnostic kit.

hope this helps

coop

[BigMo82]

I agree with older cars being soo much simpler to work on and diagnose. I reset the ecu by removing the Battery cable. Turned the car on and initial idle was 2200 but it eventually settled at 800. Did a 10 mile trip home and most of the way it behaved well only occasionally dropping to 600. Don't know how it will behave on a longer journey or over the next trip. It hasn't completely cured the problem but its definitely a step in the right direction.

Oh and according to what they told me they had completely removed the throttle body and that's when they said they realised that there was no idle control valve or stepper motor which is a little odd.

Mo

[Konrad C]

Hi Mo,

It sounds like the reset has mostly cured the idle issue. One thing I thought may have happened is that a vacuum pipe has not been reconnected. This only a guess but if your idle is near normal, then ignore my suggestion. It depends on what had to be disconnected when the throttle body was cleaned. I have not seen the design of the throttle body.

Hopefully everything has been put back and tightened properly, with no leaks!

The revs increase to compensate when the power steering, heater, aircon, lights, etc is used.

My car idles smoothly at close 600 rpm when there are no loads, but rises depending on what is on. Your engine is different so the idle is will be higher by default to be smooth.

Konrad

[BigMo82]

I looked at my dipstick today and it has gone down by about 20% between the 2 markers. The oil hasn't been touched since the service which was about 2000 miles ago.

I am guessing the smoke I am seeing could be oil? When I had the compression test done cylinder 4 was about 10% lower then the others. It was still over 150psi but maybe that's what's been causing the smoke.

I could see it a little this morning and the temp was 9C.

[Druid Boy]

Oil produces blue smoke although there may be some of it your smoke. You oil consumption seems to be quite acceptable so I wouldn't worry about it. Same for the smoke really, its not doing any harm so try to stop worrying about it and leave it alone.

Hope you get your idle speed sorted.

[Konrad C]

Hi Mo,

Pull spark plug number 4 and see if the electrodes looks the same as the other three. It may show how it is burning in comparison.

I know the engines are different but, I have not topped up the oil since the last oil change back October/November. My oil level is a fraction below the 'max' mark. I think I have done about 4000 miles. If your engine is within Toyota's specs for oil consumption, then they have lowered the bar compared to my 7A-FE engine. You will have expect this.

As Druid says, don't worry too much. Just keep an eye on things.

PS:

I checked my handbook and it say '600 miles per litre when the engine is new'. The handbook goes on to explain that the oil is diluted with contaminates like fuel and moisture, that then evaporates when the car is used for high speed journeys.

So a run in engine should be far better and I take back the bit about Toyota lowering the level of oil consumption on later models.

Edited May 27, 2013 by Konrad C

[BigMo82]

Thanks for the replies guys. At this rate I guess it would do about 1 litre of oil for every 8000 miles. I know that isn't ideal but its better then some of the nightmare stories I have read. Also I'm not sure if its gone down due the oil being new and it getting slightly thicker as its being used?

Mo