Intermittent Start Issue D4D Avensis

[meathman]

Hi Guys

Have a 2004 D4D Avensis, that fails to start sometimes, it will turn over fine but just won't start, it sounds like a fuel starvation issue to me.

The car does 25000 mile a year, started and stopped a couple of times a day, this issue has occurred 4 or 5 times in the last eight to nine weeks every other time the car started normally.

I've noticed it has always occurred when the engine is hot, although it normally starts fine when hot. It has always started normally again when cold. I've also noticed it runs a bit rough after a cold start. Once it warms up it is fine.

I've heard of intermittent loss of power issues with these engines caused by the SCV's but mine has no issue like that, once it starts and warms up it runs very well. Fuel consumption is about 48 to 50 M.P.G which is what I would expect, it does about 1/2 main road, 1/3 town and the rest motorway driving.

It is a Denso 22100-0G010 fuel pump so has only one SCV, which I suspect. It has not been diagnosed yet so don't know about fault codes but there are no lights on at the dash. The SCV has been out and visibly opens and closes when car is switched on, but as it is an intermittent fault it could still be the source.

I've been told the issue is most likely caused by a problem with the wiring at the ignition barrel, I don't want to strip out the inside to get to this if the issue is the SCV.

I'd be grateful for any help or advise, obviously diag is next step which will happen at the weekend, just looking for experiences here if anyone has had similar problem.

Thanks,

Meathman

[+robster+]

is the scv something that doesnt throw a code?
think ive read this somewhere
im looking forward to the replies as i think i have the same pump and engine as you and if the fault is found its one up the sleeve to remember if i or anyone else gets the same symptoms

is this 25k a year multiplied by the age of the car?
this being over 200kmiles the car has done?

ive had similar problems to this on hdi and vag pd engines
getting harder and harder to start as the days go by
cause
leaking injector/s usually internally from the high pressure side to the return side
causing loss of fuel rail pressure
causing hard to start especially when warm as the thinned fuel leaks back more easily

look for common rail diesel injector leakback test on youtube
dont know how accessible the return pipes are yet on the d4d but worth a go making your own leakback tester or you can buy one for about £50


this clip should give you the idea

[meathman]

I don't know about the SCV and throwing codes, haven't had a diag yet but as I say no light so possibly no code.

25k miles per annum since I got it 2 years ago, in total only 140000k miles on it so light driving for a 9 year old diesel.

It's quite easy to start from cold and starts easily from warm 99% of the time so has me a bit puzzled, the diesel leak back was not something I had considered, didn't think it would be intermittent like my issue, will have to look into it more.

Anyway now for the latest update, I was taking to an injector and pump expert/re-conditioner/diesel mechanic and he suggested the starter, he thought he remembered a car he worked in the past, where the starter was drawing so much current from the Battery, that there was nothing left to work the SCV, he said it had similar symptoms to mine.

So I started investigating the starter, when listening with bonnet up and someone else cranking I thought it sounded a bit lazy, though it was not noticeable from the cabin, so off it came. I brought the starter to an auto-electrician and lo and behold it's knackered, drawing well over double what it should. Will have it back in the morning reconditioned, or a new one if he can't get the parts, so will fit tomorrow and hope for the best. Will see how it goes over the next week or two and try to remember to post back it the issue is resolved.

EDIT:

Just found this, could be on the right track by the looks of things.

http://www.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=127778

Regards,

Meathman

Edited March 12, 2013 by meathman

[+robster+]

cool another common fault learned it seems, i would have never of guessed that

thats the power of communication on forums like these and folk willing to shares their stories and solutions

im gonna put my current clamp on (in rush)

and take reference readings from cold start (minus 4 degrees here last night same expected tomorrow)

and a hot start after it has reached operating temp

so people can have a reference of a working starter and able to compare if they get similar problems as op

[meathman]

Hi Guys,

Just came back to update the thread, it drives me nuts when other people don't so I didn't want to be one of those, but wanted to give her a couple of weeks to see if the issue happen again.

So I stuck the new starter on it back when I last posted, car is perfect since and is starting noticeably better both hot and cold, it appears the starter was the problem.

One other interesting piece of info I learned, which was completely new to me, the E.C.U in the D4D engine "forgets" where everything is when you stop the engine, for that reason the crankshaft must complete two full revolutions before the engine starts, the first revolution is so the E.C.U can figure out where everything is ( which valves are open/closed, which piston is on exhaust, intake, compression etc.), the second to allow it get its ducks in a row so to speak and get everything ready for start, then it starts her up on the third revolution. I didn't know this and found it hard to believe when told, but its what I've been told and he was pretty adamant it was true, and from listening to it start with the new starter it seems true, it always starts after 2 turns.

Regards,

Meathman.

[Druid Boy]

Glad you got it sorted. Can you put your diesel mechanic and auto electrician's details on here? Someone may need a similar service and good guys deserve to get the work.

[+robster+]

One other interesting piece of info I learned, which was completely new to me, the E.C.U in the D4D engine "forgets" where everything is when you stop the engine, for that reason the crankshaft must complete two full revolutions before the engine starts, the first revolution is so the E.C.U can figure out where everything is ( which valves are open/closed, which piston is on exhaust, intake, compression etc.), the second to allow it get its ducks in a row so to speak and get everything ready for start, then it starts her up on the third revolution. I didn't know this and found it hard to believe when told, but its what I've been told and he was pretty adamant it was true, and from listening to it start with the new starter it seems true, it always starts after 2 turns.

Regards,

Meathman.

and to prime the fuel rail pressure from a morning start