D4D 1Cd Egr Blanking Trial

[+robster+]

ok

said id do this on a trial to see if any mil light appears as suggested

see pics for details

i have a d4d t3-s and it seems to be working ok for me

time will tel

i have 2 more pieces as shown in the pre cut state/outlined and drill holes marked

if anyone wants them

any questions welcome

the most fiddly bit was the bottom bolt removal and fit without losing it.

there is a hose that crosses over its axis and a wiring loom in the area, just managed to use my fingers as chopstix to start the bolt and get a socket and extention to tighten

its a rough cut and a dirty van ( just back from the dump with all the bushes from my front garden)( driveway this summer woohoo) lol

it was a bit of a rush as by the time i came back from multiple trips to the dump, the wife had just over an hour till she needed the car for work.

[BigMo82]

I had the EGR blanked off on my mk4, never caused me any giref or EML. I was going to cut one out of a coke can but then found Vauxhall sold them at the main service centers.

Was the EGR causing you problems?

[+robster+]

no problems

i just do this to all my diesels to save problems further down the line

[Thermal]

You DO realize that by blanking your EGR you, and your children and everybody else, will breathe the soot, gunk and other cancer-causing particels that the EGR is designed to burn off through the engine, instead of blowing it directly into the environment?

Pretty irresponsible practice I would say!

[+robster+]

Aye nae bother, we can go on about carbon footprints all day but its not all one sided.
Dodgy egr cause more pollution by over fuelling spewing out black soot from exhaust due to overfuelling when its stuck open causing boost loss or by the build up of soot blocking the inlet causing air restrictions

you can smell a cokey diesel engine a mile away usually caused by egr soot build up in the inlet.
What did we do before the token egr valve?

it only operates a fraction of the time at mid cruise for whenever your in that zone, rarely unless your a motorway mile muncher.

it doesnt operate on cold engine/ idle/wide open throttle/acceleration under boost

its not part of the mot test in uk...nox is non detectable under the smoke test but a sticking egr or blocked manifold will cause a bad smoke test and possibly fail mot emmisions or even worse lead to the engine damage issues of some models.
What about older cars and current plant that dont have egr valves. Lets ban them.

its only a trial anyway out of curiosity and some requests of taxi drivers i know etc who are sick of paying dealers £300 to sort thier blocked egr problems and to give a bit of feedback as i had searched the net and hadnt found anyone blanking these

as i was told these engines flag up mil and go into limp mode

low and behold it has triggered mil with code p0400( egr flow fault) after about 50 miles use - but has not went into limp mode and runs fine.( due to being a model without integrated traction control)

i will probably revert back to normal anyway but could get away with leaving it as is and just turning off the lamp before an mot ( 11 months+ from now)

[Druid Boy]

Um, so exposing my own ignorance here but.......I thought the EGR valve was part of the traction control system and it allowed exhaust gases to recirculate into the cylinders to reduce power output and overcome wheel spin (with the aid of the brakes). It seems from the posts above that it operates under normal driving conditions also. Is that right? It sounds illogical to me, putting burnt gases into an engine, why?

[+robster+]

could be exposing my own ignorance aswell, its what ive read up on and im assuming various articles are gospel. lol

i have no traction control on car so doesnt affect running of mine.

i do know that my transits traction control uses the egr to slow down the engine dramatically when it detects wheel spin or yaw breach.

it works really well and ive taken a front wheel van to the limits and still amazed how hard it is to understeer

say i horse it into or out of a corner and keep my foot down

the van will open egr to instantly remove the boost causing rapid engine deceleration

there may be something linked into the braking system too?

transit tdci egr valves are like all egr valves a regular occurence of needing replaced or cleaned

and a pain in the behind when they fail whilst you go from your mid cruise to overtake something then its as if someone has hammered on the handbrake

yes under normal driving conditions its meant to be a token gesture to reduce nox gasses by recycling already burnt gas that has no oxygen(inert) to cool the combustion at a certain temp or something. lol

ill have to refresh my understanding via the wikipedia page

[+robster+]

stuff like this i read make me sway towards blanking it off because theres a weigh up of possible poorer fuel economy, more acidic eng oil etc.

"a copy and paste from wikipedia" but how right is wiki???

ive noticed a better throttle response due to boost coming in more instantly and not needing to wait on a valve shutting. so this might be where the economy is partly lost too?

By feeding the lower oxygen exhaust gas into the intake, diesel EGR systems lower combustion temperature, reducing emissions of NOx. This makes combustion less efficient, compromising economy and power. The normally "dry" intake system of a diesel engine is now subject to fouling from soot, unburned fuel and oil in the EGR bleed, which has little effect on airflow but can cause problems with components such as swirl flaps, where fitted. Diesel EGR also increases soot production, though this was masked in the US by the simultaneous introduction of diesel particulate filters.^[6] EGR systems can also add abrasive contaminants and increase engine oil acidity, which in turn can reduce engine longevity.^[7]

Though engine manufacturers have refused to release details of the effect of EGR on fuel economy, the EPA regulations of 2002 that led to the introduction of cooled EGR were associated with a 3% drop in engine efficiency, bucking a trend of a .5% a year increase.^[8]

[edit]References

[Thermal]

There's a very good article here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exhaust_gas_recirculation

In short, the EGR in both Diesel- and (some) Petrol combustion engines are an attempt to clean the exhaust gases we blow into the environment.
Primarily, it has nothing to do with the Traction Control system, although certain side-effects could be used by modern car electronics to reduce power.

When looking at an EGR valve in Diesel engines, it's in fact a horrible compromise.
It reduces the NOx output, while at the same time producing its own soot and carbon.
An EGR system only works "reasonably well" in a specific (and small) operating band, meaning motorways without traffic jams.
The internal engine temperature must reach high enough levels to burn off soot, and stay low enough in order not to produce NOx.
That's an engineering dilemma.
Other side-effects are a loss of power, by the injection of exhaust gas back into the egine, which is then compensated by installing a Turbo.
Which in turn increases power, but produces excess soot, which cloggs the EGR even faster and is collected by a Diesel Particle Filter.
Which of course gets clogged in the end aswell.
It also means, that Diesel engines are "less suited" for short trips, where the Diesel engine never reaches anywhere near its optimal operating temperature.
Unfortunately that includes most taxis.

You could go as far as saying that if you need to clean your EGR valve regularly, or consider blanking it off , it means you chose the wrong type of engine for the job.

Choises.... choises....

I am a big fan of hydrogen technology in cars, where the only exhaust is... clean water.
Can't wait until that becomes available!

[edit:] @robster: that's the article... ;)

[t-spiritpete]

Great discussion on the pros and cons of the "Diesel EGR" valve, I personally don't think they are a good thing long term and even worse when linked to a DPF system which totally defeats the object of it. Engineers strive to meet new emission regs ... invent something which seems good on paper but in practice actually causes more polution but by this time it's written in EU law so we all have to have one fitted .... very silly. The only time the egr/dpf system works correctly is if the car is driven hard out of town but that's not the real world, sorry and respect to all of you all of you in the green party but I believe we are all being conned and please don't start a further discussion on this as like politics and religion we will never agree.

Robster have you thought of drilling a small hole say 8mm/10mm in the blanking plate to allow some flow to see if that stops the mil P0400.

Regards and respect to the views of others ....

Pete.

[+robster+]

For taxi drivers cash is king and 95% will pick diesel due to it helping thier profit margin no matter

Good idea to drill the holes pete

For all the time it will take ill give it a bash through the week.when i attempt shutter valve inspection/clean

Be good to know what sensor/s reads and flags up egr flow error to see if there is a work around

[Thermal]

<... I believe we are all being conned ....>

Wise words as always, Pete.

BTW, I'm not as "green" as my plea for hydrogen might suggest.
I did my share of polluting in past times, driving 2 diesel cars for a total of over 800,000 kms.
In a time that diesel engines only had 4 injectors, glow plugs and a starter motor.
Simple technology, no turbo's, no EGRs, no catalysts, very low maintenance cost and smoking as a diesel should.
You learned to be patient, and was forced into a very relaxed driving style.
For instance, my 1982 1600 Kg Mercedes 200D produced ... 60 bhp.
Completely ridiculous to todays standards, but I know it still runs today.!
Then, "The Environment" was invented, and ever stricter regulations came out.
Also, the public no longer settled for under-powered diesels, and there the race for their complexity began, with increasing maintenance costs and decreasing reliability.

I totally agree that we, and in particular the diesel car owners, have been conned.
You think you chose a fuel-economic reliable car, with adequate power, and all modern equipment under the hood that are good for the environment.
You're even prepared to pay a premium compared to petrol cars.
But unless you operate the car in the way it is designed and equiped, are technically literate and are willing to regularly make your hands dirty, you pay a heavy price.

I honestly had no intention to start an anti-diesel rant, because I know some people make a living with them and have to be very cost conscious.
However, I'm convinced the industry took a wrong path: developing diesel further instead of hydrogen and fuel cell technology.

Must have something to do with oil-lobbying and politics.

[t-spiritpete]

Themal, coming from you and the respect i have for your views that reply means a lot to me, cheers. Engineers again work hard to produce a diesel car to get twice the mpg they got 20 years ago so the politicians inflate the price of fuel. Why is an eco car so much more expensive to buy if they are serious about saving the planet, NOT!

Pete.

.

[Cyker]

You DO realize that by blanking your EGR you, and your children and everybody else, will breathe the soot, gunk and other cancer-causing particels that the EGR is designed to burn off through the engine, instead of blowing it directly into the environment?

Pretty irresponsible practice I would say!

Ironically the EGR actually causes HIGHER soot emissions - It's SOLE purpose is to reduce NOx emissions, which are normally quite high for diesel engines as they combust fuel at much higher temperatures than petrol engines.

It is a stupid idea IMHO as it compromises everything else - SO, soot particulates, mpg, CO and CO2 - All these are worse!

There is one other fringe benefit tho' - It helps warm the engine up faster.

Apparently they've started putting these things on petrol engines too which boggles the mind since petrol engines combust at much lower temps and don't produce anywhere near as much NOx as diesel engines!

There are a few alternatives; Urine injection, multi-injection, catalysts, but these all have downsides and/or are more expensive to implement.

[Simy123]

WOW, I've not had chance to read all the thread yet but this confirms exactly what I've been experiencing with my 2.2 D-4D 2ADFTV. Thanks for pointing me in this direction Rob.

[revpermin]

This here discussion needs an informed scientific point of view. For a start the exhaust gases produced by the modern diesel are more harmful than they were 20 years ago, why, well the exhaust gas emissions specialists have now found that vehicle manufacturers have been forced to trap as much soot as they can, so they have invented the dreadful DPF which removes the larger particles of soot while allowing the microscopic ones through.

what they didn't realise was that the microscopic particles used to cling to the larger ones & therefore fall to earth, where they were washed away by the rain.!

so we need to get rid of the dpfs & introduce a water based filtration system for the modern diesel engine.

It could consist of a water trap tank at the rear of the exhaust which is emptied after any journey. How it's done is not my area.

Phill. I have also had a drinky

[camcreme]

Hi,

I have a avensis verso with a 1CD-FTV engine - do you still have the plate???

Regards

Iain

[avensis rob]

no, I threw it in the scrap heap when I cleaned my van before getting a newvan about a year ago

to explain

I was original poster before binning facebook

I signed into this site via facebook at that time

no facebook = no sign in

tried to resign in etc

had to create new account

its cheap and easy to make

give it a go

I'm still running with this set up

never got round to drilling holes or anything

eml light comes on after about 40 miles due to clever ecu detecting maf signal expecting less air passing through it at certain conditions

i.e

egr blanked all the time so not getting sat 30% recirculated intake and 70% fresh air filter intake (measurable at maf)

but getting 100% fresh air filter metered by maf air intake.

pros

runs a dream - never had any problems on any of my cars ive done this.( I'm multi skilled vehicle tech lpg/diesel/hydraulics/electrics/pneumatics/plc/etc)

emmisions have lowered the past 2 years mot smoke test and currently nearly unreadable

never any black puffs of smoke on acceleration

instand boost when reqd

it gives better throttle response so is actually an upgrade in performance

runs cleaner meaning cleaner valves / pistons/ engine oil etc ( did you know that the ford 1.6 tdci / 1.6 hdi / Volvo 1.6 etc - all same engine have a known turbo failure problem as the narrow oil feed galleries get blocked and starve the oil feed to turbo AND THIS IS BECAUSE OF SOOT BUILD UP IN ENGINE OIL FROM DIRTY EGR being the root problem-- I blanked my brothers Picasso currently on 210k miles with original turbo, ever heard of that?

cons

nox pollutants will have the tree huggers on your case but this is a runaround ave 8k miles per year so why am I being booed at due to registration date of car when there are older cars polluting more and plant equipment polluting way more and way behind in euro emmisions compliance

the eml that appears

doesn't bother me or the wife

I can plug in scanner to delete on morning before mot to pass

but I can also just pull Battery neg for a couple of minutes then reattach to clear code

code is p0400 = egr flow fault as explained above as for why it triggers

I'm rambling on but just to give folk the tried and tested views of myself as some people will think it will wreck their engine

​

[Ravsterjack]

robster,how did you get on with the blanking plate? did you have to put 2 holes in it because of the turbo pressure or not ? any help would be appreciated I have a D4D 1CD engine.

[frankie406]

When I had mine done and took it off the engine side of the blank was full of oil how no 1 knows possibly a seal leaking but the light on dash always came on so I'd try with the holes or just don' blank at all and just do a routine check/clean on it periodically 

[Simy123]

Thanks for the tips. It's such a weird problem. Blanking the Egr didn't solve the problem still had smoke everywhere. The only thing that stops it is to unplug the electrical to the Egr valve. 

Done over 35k now with Egr electrics unplugged and and is fine except the car isn't as powerful which now leads me think unplugging the Egr valve is disabling the turbo. If that's the case then maybe the problem/smoke has always been a turbo issue????

 

[frankie406]

Probably unplugged might cause problems with the maf.what colour of smoke? Have you ran an injector cleaner thru it?