Egr Blanking

[plaifender]

@Dav. Ahh! I see what you mean. In theory it might be possible. Why you're really talking about is like a manual PRE-valve maybe on the EGR pipe. Interesting thought. That way for emissions testing we could simply turn it on or off.

[Davrav]

@Dav. Ahh! I see what you mean. In theory it might be possible. Why you're really talking about is like a manual PRE-valve maybe on the EGR pipe. Interesting thought. That way for emissions testing we could simply turn it on or off.

Exactement, as Kev would say.

[CharlieFarlie]

Hope the thread stops soon I wish I had never started it (thinking of buying a KUGA Ford that is) driven Toyota's since 1993 time for a change, It's not been the smooth experience I would have expected, on a lighter note my Rav4 goes in to Harry's in Blackpool next week for the rear suspension recall (not as near as Vantage/Blackburn and RRG Bolton) but I might even look at the new Rav4 I might????? will let you know

Previous to owning the Toyota and the Jag XF We have now I owned well over 100 Ford vehicles over the years... Many being Transit vans which were changed without fail every three years before they ran out of warranty.. All were bought brand new..

The only issues I ever had with these vans was on the later ones from 2006 onwards.. The issues were solely related to EGR valves.. One van ( A 2009 T130 Trend) had 5 EGR valves in that 3 years and roughly 35.000 miles..

My point of course being that Ford like just about every other manufacturer have quite a few problems with the dreaded EGR valve issues..

So think again if you think migrating to Ford or any maker is going to eliminate the EGR doom..................

Lets be frank and honest here NO manufacture has for one minute wanted to fit a !Removed! EGR valve to any of their vehicles.. They are a requisite of the emissions regulations that every car maker has to abide to.. It really is as simple as that...

Add to this the regulations at present require that all Diesel pump fuel MUST contain 5% bio in the fuel and it explains why more and more often we hear of the EGR problems...

Next year the regulations will mean pump diesel MUST contain 10% bio and we will have to have a separate forum just for EGR issues and DPF/DPNR as things will simply get far worse.......

I think the future lies with these new high compression new fangled Turbo petrol engines as getting a diesel engine to run properly especially when the 10% content diesel hits the forecourts is going to be a complete pain in the arris...

Of course there will be yet more additives to reinstate the quality of the diesel.. But many wont even pay the extra for quality diesel fuel like Vpower and the like.. So forking out for tin after tin of stuff to throw in the tank is not going to go down well...

I recently had to add a wee automatic car for the wife to drive as she simply cannot manage a manual car any more due to her degenerative disability ( And no we do not claim disability)... The car chosen this time around is a wee Ford Fiesta with a petrol engine. We chose not to load another gun in the form of a modern small diesel......

Down side of the wee 1.4 auto fiesta is wow can it drink !!!! It uses more fuel than either the Rav or the Jag !

So there you have it.. The diesel world according to barmy Farlie...

[voyager t180]

Even more reasons for blanking it off,providing its safe to do so of course.

Nothing wrong with your thread Mr.Fox,judging by the response.
Lively discussion on technical issues is what car forums are all about.
If it saves members money and helps our cars run better,then all the to the good I say.

[grasshopper]

And still nobody answered my question!

[anchorman]

Grasshopper.

If you read the thread through you will find your answer without the inconvenience of having to wait for somebody to repeat it for you.

You remove the conveluted pipe from the valve and blank it at either or both ends with a steel or stainless steel shim. The only benefit of doing it at both ends is that you get a double chance of getting a good seal.

[Tech01]

No-one should worry about this thread having been so lengthy. It has been well followed, to the point, and extremely informative on both a theoretical and practical level.

To Charlie's points . . .

IMHO, there is no evidence that diesel fuel has got worse over the last decade or so. Every diesel vehicle I have run over this period has run better and cleaner with each new 'advance' in fuel - with the exception of the Ultra Low Sulphur Diesel fuel ("City diesel") sold by several supermarkets, which was so devoid of cetane additives (Ooomph), and possibly lubricant, that it was no fun to drive at all. I don't think that the small addition of biodiesel will be a problem, provided the overall quality of the fuel is maintained. Maybe not every fuel manufacturer will do this, however.

But it goes deeper than all this. What we all need to get used to is the idea that the days of the internal combustion engine for regular road transport are definitely numbered. As emissions regulations tighten (quite properly, I believe), petrol and diesel engines will continue to be cluttered with "emissions control" widgets, and many of these will further strangle performance, and maybe economy too. I don't think we can expect any really significant breakthroughs in either petrol or diesel technology now, particularly with petrol, which has been researched to death. The next advance is almost certainly on the all-electric front. We just need to be a little patient, and not to get side-tracked (IMHO) by the irrelevancies of most of the "hybrids", which the oil companies are more than happy to see promoted.

Reasons to be cheerful, Charlie.

Chris

[the fox]

I would like to add sealing both ends may make it less likely the EGR valve will stick if your EGR valve is dirty it may find it hard to open and close without a push from the gases, so those of you who reported warning lights after blanking try cleaning EGR valve or blanking both ends which ever way you go blanking will not put a fault on the vehicle,

[voyager t180]

I would like to add sealing both ends may make it less likely the EGR valve will stick if your EGR valve is dirty it may find it hard to open and close without a push from the gases, so those of you who reported warning lights after blanking try cleaning EGR valve or blanking both ends which ever way you go blanking will not put a fault on the vehicle,

For the non-blankers (which includes me atm til some more feedback), could a faulty EGR solenoid prevent the valve from fully closing?

And am I right in assuming it can be tested with the EGR/solenoid removed and the electrics still connected to it and then switching the ignition on and off? Should you be able to see the valve open and close?

Hope I've explained that properly.

Thanks Paul..

[anchorman]

Kind of right Paul, the valve does open with an electrical motor. However, just turning the ignition on and off won't make it work because it remains closed unless the throttle is open so it requires the engine to be running and under load. The motor opens a poppet valve like that in a cylinder head except there are two heads in line axially. Cleaning as a matter of routine is fairly straight forward but I have seen them so carboned up and stuck wide open I've had to strip them right down. For that I scribed the body and removed the stepper motor then used a long thin punch to knock the core plug out of the end. Now you can see through it especially held to the light. I kept cleaning and cleaning until the spring loaded valve could be heard shutting with a metallic ping. The valve is then reassembled to the motor and the end plug knocked back in. I staked the aluminium body with a centre pop to make the plug a tight fit.

Using decent diesel stops the problem. You still get soot but it is soft and wipes away with a finger to reveal clean aluminium. Trust me, you need scrapers and wire brushes with supermarket diesel.

[voyager t180]

Thanks Don,thats what I thought to. It was the service dept at my local Mr T told me I could check it in the way I described.
They also said you cant buy the solenoid as a seperate item,it comes as part of the EGR valve,which seems strange as its only fastened with three allen bolts.
Basically then it cant be tested whilst removed?
I cleaned my EGR for the third time today,this time spending 30mins+ with a fine stiff wire brush (as you suggest) a toothbrush just wont do the job properly.
It now looks like new,and moves nice and smoothly with a good tight fit on the valve when closed,it does take some time to do correctly,and ideally you need an air line to blow the carbon out as you go along.
Thanks for the great 'in-depth' description on cleaning a badly sooted one,but dont think I'll be risking taking mine completely apart.
Thanks Paul.

[anchorman]

Can probably be made to work by powering up the right wires.

[mikis]

Hi Everyone

I located the egr valve a couple of days ago,i had never lifted the plastic cover of the engine before.

The question that came up is that since the conveluted pipe is fixed 100% on the engine how would there be room to fit the two plates that are 2mm thick each?

Regards

Mikis

Greece

[bigend]

You only need one 1.6mm thick stainless between the pipe and the egr valve.

keith

[anchorman]

Hi Everyone

I located the egr valve a couple of days ago,i had never lifted the plastic cover of the engine before.

The question that came up is that since the conveluted pipe is fixed 100% on the engine how would there be room to fit the two plates that are 2mm thick each?

Regards

Mikis

Greece

You won't struggle getting a thin plate inbetween the pipe ends. The pipe will flex easily.

You can buy all sorts of egr blanking plates on eBay but if you have one made, get one with elongated holes that you can just slide in like this;

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/EGR-VALVE-BLANKING-PLATE-FORD-PUMA-MONDEO-TRANSIT-2-0-2-2-2-4-TDCi-/130697362092?_trksid=p2045573.m2102&_trkparms=aid%3D555003%26algo%3DPW.CAT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D33%26meid%3D6935707415153006249%26pid%3D100034%26prg%3D1031%26rk%3D1%26#ht_810wt_1180

[mikis]

Hi Everyone

I located the egr valve a couple of days ago,i had never lifted the plastic cover of the engine before.

The question that came up is that since the conveluted pipe is fixed 100% on the engine how would there be room to fit the two plates that are 2mm thick each?

Regards

Mikis

Greece

You won't struggle getting a thin plate inbetween the pipe ends. The pipe will flex easily.

You can buy all sorts of egr blanking plates on eBay but if you have one made, get one with elongated holes that you can just slide in like this;

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/EGR-VALVE-BLANKING-PLATE-FORD-PUMA-MONDEO-TRANSIT-2-0-2-2-2-4-TDCi-/130697362092?_trksid=p2045573.m2102&_trkparms=aid%3D555003%26algo%3DPW.CAT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D33%26meid%3D6935707415153006249%26pid%3D100034%26prg%3D1031%26rk%3D1%26#ht_810wt_1180

Thank you both for your replies.

Would you use two of those? One on each side.

[voyager t180]

Even 1mm should be thick enough..
You just need a metal that isnt going to melt,and therefore SS is the best choice ,but is harder to shape and drill the holes in.

[voyager t180]

Hi Everyone

I located the egr valve a couple of days ago,i had never lifted the plastic cover of the engine before.

The question that came up is that since the conveluted pipe is fixed 100% on the engine how would there be room to fit the two plates that are 2mm thick each?

Regards

Mikis

Greece

You won't struggle getting a thin plate inbetween the pipe ends. The pipe will flex easily.

You can buy all sorts of egr blanking plates on eBay but if you have one made, get one with elongated holes that you can just slide in like this;

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/EGR-VALVE-BLANKING-PLATE-FORD-PUMA-MONDEO-TRANSIT-2-0-2-2-2-4-TDCi-/130697362092?_trksid=p2045573.m2102&_trkparms=aid%3D555003%26algo%3DPW.CAT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D33%26meid%3D6935707415153006249%26pid%3D100034%26prg%3D1031%26rk%3D1%26#ht_810wt_1180

Thats looks taylor made,and being able to just slide it on with the bolts in place makes life a lot easier..now why didnt I think of that ?

[mikis]

Hi Everyone

I located the egr valve a couple of days ago,i had never lifted the plastic cover of the engine before.

The question that came up is that since the conveluted pipe is fixed 100% on the engine how would there be room to fit the two plates that are 2mm thick each?

Regards

Mikis

Greece

You won't struggle getting a thin plate inbetween the pipe ends. The pipe will flex easily.

You can buy all sorts of egr blanking plates on eBay but if you have one made, get one with elongated holes that you can just slide in like this;

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/EGR-VALVE-BLANKING-PLATE-FORD-PUMA-MONDEO-TRANSIT-2-0-2-2-2-4-TDCi-/130697362092?_trksid=p2045573.m2102&_trkparms=aid%3D555003%26algo%3DPW.CAT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D33%26meid%3D6935707415153006249%26pid%3D100034%26prg%3D1031%26rk%3D1%26#ht_810wt_1180

Thats looks taylor made,and being able to just slide it on with the bolts in place makes life a lot easier..now why didnt I think of that ?

Hi Paul

Would you use this on both sides of the egr? Do you think that the size of this plate would fit on both ends?

[voyager t180]

I believe its not really necessary to blank both ends..
They are different sizes anyway.
Where the pipe joins the cylinder head its 47mm app between the bolt holes.(the end I would use)
And 60mm where it meets the EGR the valve.
As Anchs said the main thing is to make sure you have an air tight seal,using exhaust or gasket sealant..and that the valve is in the closed position.
PS the blanks on eBay dont actually give any measurements?
So I would ask the question.
I would first try giving the EGR valve itself a really good clean as in the guide on here..ie at least 30 mins working on the valve itself until it moves in and out freely and seats properly,then see if it improves your mpg.

[anchorman]

Any good tin shop will knock one up. It would take seconds to get the gasket out and you can give it to them as a pattern.

[mikis]

I believe its not really necessary to blank both ends..

They are different sizes anyway.

Where the pipe joins the cylinder head its 47mm app between the bolt holes.(the end I would use)

And 60mm where it meets the EGR the valve.

As Anchs said the main thing is to make sure you have an air tight seal,using exhaust or gasket sealant..and that the valve is in the closed position.

PS the blanks on ebay dont actually give any measurements?

So I would ask the question.

I would first try giving the EGR valve itself a really good clean as in the guide on here..ie at least 30 mins working on the valve itself until it moves in and out freely and seats properly,then see if it improves your mpg.

I have cleaned it,not myself Mr T had,three months ago and since then it runs beautifully.

I'm thinking of doing the blanking in september but until then i have to know as much as possible about it so i can explain to MrT what does he have to do.

[Big Kev]

Mr.T will more than likely POLITELY refuse to do it, Mikis.

Big Kev

[Tech01]

If anyone wants to make up a blanking plate in advance of fitting it, then it's easy to buy a sealing gasket (for the position you want to fit the blank), and use this as a pattern for the blank plate. For the 4.2, at the EGR-valve end, my gasket cost €9 from Mr.T. You won't actually need the gasket for the fitting of the plate: the plate replaces the original gasket.

[Tech01]

As promised, a few comments on how things are running on the 4.2 just over a week after fitting the blanking plate...

- Engine easier to start (fire-up after just a couple of seconds of cranking, cleaner start-up, less initial smoke).

- Able to floor throttle in any gear on any incline, with previous tendency to go into Limp mode completely gone.

- Engine quieter at tickover and at light throttle,

- Mpg improved by 1-2mpg (according to same use of trip computer)

Interestingly, as Don previously suggested, it has taken the engine a couple of days to "settle down" into this new mode of running (although the disappearance of the Limp mode was immediate). I did not disconnect battery/clear fault log - maybe the EMU has had to learn some new sensor info?

So far, so very good. Wish I'd done it a long time ago.

Chris