Egr Problem

[bobkneale]

If anyone wants to make Toyota more aware that EGR problem should be made re call item by Toyota UK and worldwide you can write to:

Mr Jon Williams, President and Managing Director of Toyota GB,

Toyota (GB) plc

PO Box 814
Portsmouth
PO6 9AY
United Kingdom

OR:

IN JAPAN - Board of Directors

Address - Toyota-Cho, Toyota City, Aichi Prefecture 471-8571, Japan

Akira Imura - Chairman

Chairman

Akira Imura

Vice Chairman

Kazunori Yoshida

President

Tetsuro Toyoda

Executive Vice Presidents

Kimpei Mitsuya

Tetsuo Agata

Chiaki Yamaguchi

Senior Managing Directors

Toshiyuki Sekimori

Kazue Sasaki

Hirotaka Mori****a

Shinya Furukawa

Akira Onishi

Masaharu Suzuki

Directors

Masafumi Kato

Norio Sasaki

Toshifumi Ogawa

Toshifumi Onishi

Fujio Cho

Standing

Corporate Auditors

Shigetaka Yoshida

Kakuo Ishikawa

Corporate Auditors

Katsuaki Watanabe

Toshio Mita

Hans-Juergen Marx

Managing Officers

Senior Managing Officers

Takaki Ogawa

Kohei Nozaki

Kan Otsuka

Taku Yamamoto

Managing Officers

Yukihisa Tsuchimoto

Hiroaki Asai

Takashi Ito

Toshiya Yamagishi

Junichi Harada

Mikihiko Okamoto

Hirooki Fujiwara

Yasuhiro Murata

Yojiro Mizuno

Masahiro Kawaguchi

Susumu Toyoda

Yuji Ishizaki

Keizo Hara

Kiyotsugu Kurimoto

Masafumi Kunito

Toshihiko Shimizu

Koichi Ito

[davidgilmour]

Isn't ist strange that Toyota has an EGR modiication in a 2 year old car (market telease 2009, mod available since 2011)? Why would a car need such a modification is there "wasn't a problem" ? Sounds fishy to me,

[bobkneale]

As posted by Mike further back in this post, if you believe that EGR problem is a safety issue you should contact VOSA - see https://www.gov.uk/r...e-safety-defect

I did and completed a safety report form and posted it off, VOSA rang me today to ask me a number of questions about the issue.

They (VOSA) have not received complaints about EGR valve being a safety issue (except from me) so I you want do do something about it this is the route to go to perhaps get Toyota to make this safety issue a re call item.

If you don't or carn't be bothered to take this specific action then perhaps it's best not to continue to moan about it on this forum.

Positive Regards,

Bob.

[sweet-dentist]

Today I am puzzled ànd a little disappointed... Not shure what to think of it.

Today I went in by the Toyota Dealer. Had an appointment made, because the car would sometimes have a little less power when accelerating..

I did talk about the EGR issues... they had not heard of any. "They follow the Toyota rules" they said. I told them about the lot of comments on internet, just Google I said.

"We do'nt Google, we keep to Toyota guidelines".

Anyways.... after checking the car, that took about 30 minutes, they came by me and said the following.

"The catalist is not OK and also the EGR intake valve (or something NOT the EGR?) is not good. We will ask Toyota for a "coulance" agreement, cause this is not covered by the 3 year warranty."

I told them I have an extra 2 year warranty. "Unfortunately this extra warranty does not cover "exhaust" problems.

In my personal opinion, at this moment, I think that those 2 parts together make up for an EGR valve... I told this, but no no sir...I was wrong.

My car is from April 28 2010...so it is 3 years (the warranty years) and 4 months... So just after the warranty time.

It stroke me though that the extra warranty does not cover this, I will look up what actually is covered then with this extra warranty...

Then I have to look up whats with the warranty nowadays.... has it become 5 years now?

Questions...

1 Does anyone have an exploded view of this EGR system? I could not find a clear view of it. I have a DVD from the Toyota, but not a very clear EGR view...

2 Does anyone have information of this warranty business.... ?

3 What could the costs be of the repair of the catalyst and so...? Is there an official coulance (do not know the word:

obligingness, thoughtfulness, kindness, complaisance, compliance, compliancy, deference, consideration, long-suffering, indulgence, lenience, leniency)

agreement from Toyota on these warranty issues... ?

Will keep you informed...

[bobkneale]

Today I am puzzled ànd a little disappointed... Not shure what to think of it.

Today I went in by the Toyota Dealer. Had an appointment made, because the car would sometimes have a little less power when accelerating..

I did talk about the EGR issues... they had not heard of any. "They follow the Toyota rules" they said. I told them about the lot of comments on internet, just Google I said.

"We do'nt Google, we keep to Toyota guidelines".

Anyways.... after checking the car, that took about 30 minutes, they came by me and said the following.

"The catalist is not OK and also the EGR intake valve (or something NOT the EGR?) is not good. We will ask Toyota for a "coulance" agreement, cause this is not covered by the 3 year warranty."

I told them I have an extra 2 year warranty. "Unfortunately this extra warranty does not cover "exhaust" problems.

In my personal opinion, at this moment, I think that those 2 parts together make up for an EGR valve... I told this, but no no sir...I was wrong.

My car is from April 28 2010...so it is 3 years (the warranty years) and 4 months... So just after the warranty time.

It stroke me though that the extra warranty does not cover this, I will look up what actually is covered then with this extra warranty...

Then I have to look up whats with the warranty nowadays.... has it become 5 years now?

Questions...

1 Does anyone have an exploded view of this EGR system? I could not find a clear view of it. I have a DVD from the Toyota, but not a very clear EGR view...

2 Does anyone have information of this warranty business.... ?

3 What could the costs be of the repair of the catalyst and so...? Is there an official coulance (do not know the word:

obligingness, thoughtfulness, kindness, complaisance, compliance, compliancy, deference, consideration, long-suffering, indulgence, lenience, leniency)

agreement from Toyota on these warranty issues... ?

Will keep you informed...

Dear Peter, The EGR valve mod as I understand it is a well known Toyota issue, and involves a modification re new catalist and EGR valve there are pictures on other posts within this forum of before and after, the intake pipe position is changed and this can see clearly in the pictures. My IQ after the new EGR and catalist fitted has been a completely different car, more power, no hesitation starting off, and has been fine for 5 months or so now.

I was concirned because in my case the hesitation (lack of power) starting off was a safety issue and also an accident waiting to happen at a junction if I could not pull out and away quickly, it was also a very intermitant fault so I never knew when it was going to happen.

As stated in my above post I have also filed a VOSA safety complaint about the issue, as I believe it should be a Toyota re call item.

My IQ was an approved second hand Toyota that had a extra 1 year warranty above the normal 3 years that came with it from new, my EGR & Cat replacement was done by the toyota dealer under this one year extra warranty after I wrote a letter to my dealer (letter is also posted on another post on this forum) complaining about it from a safety perspective.

It is quite an expensive mod to pay for yourself from memory around £1000 ish in total including fitting of course.

Search through this forum and you will find more info and the pics on the forum.

Positive Regards, Bob.

[johnan]

Peter,

One phrase we use in the UK when a Dealership thinks a car needs work that is "kind of " the fault of the manufacturer but would not normally be covered by warranty is a "good-will" gesture by them.

They don't admit it is their fault but pay something towards fixing it.

In this case the fault already has been proven to be design based, and therefore 100% their fault.

I looked back to when we first discussed this and the only diagram I could find is in this thread, if you look you will find it buried in the text!

I think the text is Greek or something like that.

http://www.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/topic/128369-loss-of-power-on-acceleration/page-5

The vertical canister I presume is the cat. The one on the right is the one with the updated EGR valve, which appears to need to have a different cat fitted as well as the valve fits in a different place.Maybe that is what makes it so expensive to do?

John

[sweet-dentist]

Thank you Bob,

A lot of this I know about and was also a big deal in the Dutch iQ forum. I was the one who published foto's on this subject.
And since I had no problems at all, it was not really an issue.
I thought that I had 5 years of full warranty (which seems completely useless now)
I had the car checked on 2 days before the expiration of the 3 year warranty.
It has been computer analised then and now again, and does not show any problems.

Only now the last 4 months I have ad 3 to about 6 hesitations in total. The hesitations felt not really very disturbing, as having a little misfire or something...like a hanging choke knob... In the older days... After some seconds it would drive fine again... It would run, just by putting the pedal more to the medal...
So it was just an appointment to see what is the problem.

How can they measure the catalistic thing... If it is faulty. And how can the see the valve?
Looking at the engine before and after, it has not been opened. Took pictures before.

Also... What happened IF I do not have it fixed... Until now nothing scary has happened...everything went as usual...except the little power loss... Especially if nothing appears on the computer?
Of course it's to do with money... If it's a Toyota flaw, it should be repaired in warranty for free of course.
But still: if I do not repair this, will Toyota be mad? My 3 year warranty is over and I think that if I went to any garage/dealer of other brand, they would not find anything wrong.
And if it's a clogged up catalyst I could run a lot of miles with low gearing to heat the catalyst clean again.



I have sent a letter with my concerns to Toyota....

Shame that the Dutch forum does not exist anymore...... :-(

PS sorry for the language faults... The iPad does not auto-correct now my English (US)...

[sweet-dentist]

As I now found out.... using the DVD/CD from the iQ...

1. There is a exhaust manifold... With the front Catalyst..

2. There is a EGR valve assembly... rather small thing..

and:

3. There is a rear catalyst.. sitting in the (first) exhaust pipe..

Strangely enough this was new for me: I really thought that the EGR-valve was ONE thing... but NO ... it composes of TWO different parts.. And as I see it on the drawings...the valve is easily replaced.

Now stated in the warranty... it says in the extra 2 year warranty folder... "Everything included about the engine... exhaust is not included".

When you look at the DVD/CD ... it is stated what parts are the engine and what not... The EGR valve ànd the exhaust manifold are part of the engine. Thus part of the extra warranty.

And...the second catalyst is not included / cause it's in the exhaust and not included in the extra warranty.

Will have to find out what the garage/dealer meant with "catalyst not OK / and NOT in warranty" ... do they mean the first or the second one... :-)

Now I am thinking of a second opinion / other garage / ANWB (car club) / RDW (the Dutch law).... They all have possibilities for this checkup (costs are under 100 €)

Keep you all updated...

Photo's:

[johnan]

As my previous post above and yours indicate, in the diagram the EGR valve is attached to the first catalyst and they had to redesign the first catalyst to make the valve work as it should and therefore both need to be changed to make the car work properly (be safe).

They can not just change the EGR valve as it will not fit on the old cat.

I would agree the EGR valve is part of the engine (not the exhaust) and if part of the exhaust system, the first cat., has to be changed to allow fitting of the new EGR valve then that is what must happen covered by the engine warranty. At least that is my humble opinion.

Anyway, it has been accepted that the old valves are faulty, there are bulletins covering it and they should just get on with it and change it. Why should a dealership be bothered, unless MrT has sent a memo saying make it difficult for the customer as they want to save themselves a few Euro. Very bad policy.

[sweet-dentist]

Thanks for your update... I could not agree more...

@Johnan:

DO you have a copy of this Toyota statement?

All other members:

Does anyone have a copy of there official Toyota letter? In which it is stated to replace the whole thing?

Cause here in Holland Toyota does "not" know of any problem with this item... ahummm... ;-)

But never the less.... not heard from the garage/dealer since I was there last Wednesday...

But went to my Smart-car Specialist... A he did agree of this attitude from a car firm... Has also dealt with it ... even as a company (workshop specialized)... so what to say about a humble customer that does not have a big mouth?

If warranty no big problem... if not.... no ears / no mouth / no eyes and no compassion....

[johnan]

Peter,I do not have anything in writing about this as I have not actually had the problem, but I have followed the progress of others on this forum and the bulletin from Toyota was mentioned at some point.

Perhaps if you search back in the threads or hopefully someone else will read this, and they will have the information you need.

I think David (Tarquin) investigated the matter and managed to get some definitive information, but I am not sure.

It has certainly been an ongoing situation for some time and as far as I know everyone has had their cars modified with a new EGR valve, although the dealers were not keen to start with in many cases.

John

[sweet-dentist]

Thanks Johnan,

Yes..hope someone comes up with the info. I have all the information from the beginning on... also made the pictures with the different EGR's ... before an after.

Strangely enough there were modifications in England... where Toyota would give chocolate and/or flowers to the iQ owners... Odd...

In our Dutch forum, this was also a rather hot item... but all that info has gone / due to the rather sudden stop and disappearance of the forum.... nothing left...

Peter

PS

During this afternoon... I was with the Smart Specialist... he could look in his car-database... and saw something about acceleration-problems... this has been a recall.....

In this case the problem was due to the inlet part of the engine.

I have never heard of this... but it's there in this database...

This was recalled up to the following serial number of the car..******************

I got from this Smart Specialist...

I have to look in my car, what it's number is...

See picture of the computer-screen...

[bobkneale]

Firstly Apologies for a repeat post in some ways:

My EGR and Cat etc was replaced under warranty without any debate or questions after I sent my dealer the below letter: my letter as well as web link to this specific EGR issue as posted on this forum.

Note - I also included pictures of the before and after EGR / Cat pipe location as posted on this forum.

----------------------
I purchased the car from you as an approved Toyota on 24^th Jan 2013. The car has covered approximately 1,000 miles since the above purchase date and I am happy with the car with one exception. The Vehicle has on occasions (Intermittently) hesitated from pulling away a few times. This did concern me from a safety perspective.

I joined the Toyota owner’s club forum and discovered that there is a very well documented problem with this particular car related to the EGR valve and associated components.

The Toyota’s owners club forum have quite extensively researched this safety issue to its satisfactory conclusion it is also mentioned on a number of reputable internet posts about the Toyota IQ vehicle, this information has enabled me to visually check my vehicle’s EGR valve layout in my engine compartment in comparison with the new modified EGR valve that has been fitted to many Toyota IQ vehicle’s by Toyota in order to resolve this issue.

I can see that my vehicle has the old (problematic) valve and associated components fitted to it.

As the problem is intermittent and also a safety issue I am writing this letter to request that my vehicle be repaired under the Approved Toyota Warranty that have in place.

I am somewhat disappointed that this known fault was not rectified in advance on me buying the vehicle, also disappointed that there have a number of others Toyota owners on the owners club forum that have had the same problem and in some cases have not got a positive response from there Toyota dealer in the first instance.

However in spite of this my faith in Lindop Toyota and the Toyota Motor Company in general will be restored after the repair has been quickly successfully and comprehensively resolved by you.

Please find attached to this letter copies of “some” of the information that has led me to this conclusion as stated above.

I now look forward to you contacting me very soon to book the vehicle into your repair workshop to get the problem rectified.

----------------------------------------

Hope the above info helps ?

Positive Regards, Bob.

[sweet-dentist]

Firstly Apologies for a repeat post in

--------------------------------------

Hope the above info helps ?

Positive Regards, Bob

Thanks Bob,

I will wait for an answer from the dealer.

At the same time I will translate your letter and keep it prepared....for sending when I think the time is right.

I am waiting for an answer from the dealer...and waiting for an answer from Toyota Holland.

I could use this letter as a leveridge ..

Secondly... I have a camera in the car, that records when the car is on juice / running.

I looked back on the films that were taken.

1 you can see the car taken out of the parking lot to it's place in the garage... Engine goes off. Then you can see the car driving from this garage place to the parking lot. On the timerecordings you can see that the whole "research" took 25 minutes....without any engine on...

What to think of this... The car has just been sitting there.

You understand that my trust in this garage/dealer is completely gone to zero....

Keep you informed...

[johnan]

On your second point Peter, you are not alone.

I leave my on board camera running, with the ignition, when the car goes for a service. They don't see it of course, up behind the mirror, unless they are looking for it.

My car is fine but there is a very slight resonant vibration at low engine revs that I asked them to check to see if they could find a cause. My previous IQ didn't do it so I know it is not completely normal.

Everyone, service manager, service desk person and driver who took the car away said "no problem, we will have a look, we will start the engine and up on the ramps we will see what is going on"

As far as the camera shows the car was driven into the workshop, put on the ramps, switched off then some time later switched on again and immediately driven off the ramps and away for a clean.

So at no time was there any investigative work done with the engine running to try to find the vibration which would be impossible without the engine running, as I explained to them. They, of course, reported they could find nothing wrong..surprise, surprise.

You seem to have been exposed to the same absolutely hopeless customer service, if not dishonesty. In my case it is laughably un-important, but not so with you.

I really hope you get this sorted out quickly, to your satisfaction.

John

[sweet-dentist]

Thanks John,

Appreciate your opinion..

I do tell them that there is a running camera when car is on.

I had once that the mecanicians were not amused (= furious)... And told me what a hard time they had to format the SDcard?... WTF?

Anyways... We will see what the future brings... ;-)

Peter

[bobkneale]

In car camaras (hidden or not obvious) are a good idea in my view when you car goes into a garage for repair / investigation.

Mine also runs for a while after I have parked and left the car (say in a shop car park) then switches itself off automaticly.

It also has G sensor that senses a bump / collision and then protects the recording (saves it to a non deletable area of the flash disk) .

Lets hope I never ever need it !

[sweet-dentist]

Thank you Bob... mine goes off after about 20 seconds...but I can change it to go off much later...

Good idea... For the sensor that let it go off, when something moves in front of the camera...it should be possible, I'll try and see...

Thanks...good idea...

And yes everybody should have a in-car camera / on motorcycle also...

You have a way more expensive camera than I have.... :-D

[bobkneale]

Thank you Bob... mine goes off after about 20 seconds...but I can change it to go off much later...

Good idea... For the sensor that let it go off, when something moves in front of the camera...it should be possible, I'll try and see...

Thanks...good idea...

And yes everybody should have a in-car camera / on motorcycle also...

You have a way more expensive camera than I have.... :-D

Possibly not less than £30 on E bay

[sweet-dentist]

Ha ha ... So that's a 2 € more than mine :-) :-D...

[DnT1mmer]

Hi Guys,

MY IQ is from 2009 it's a 1.0 and I sometimes notice the lack of power when accelerating. Could this be the EGR/Old type kat you are talking of? Maybe an aftermarket Kat could help , anyone experience with that?

[davidgilmour]

Hi Guys,

MY IQ is from 2009 it's a 1.0 and I sometimes notice the lack of power when accelerating. Could this be the EGR/Old type kat you are talking of? Maybe an aftermarket Kat could help , anyone experience with that?

Yes it is. This is a manufacturing failure from Toyota. They know it and it is a life threatening failure, yet they haven't had a recall for it. They will wait until one is at a junction when a 10 truck is coming your way and you won't be able to drive away quickly enough. You then will most likely die but luckily your family will be able to sue Toyota for 10 million pounds.

[FROSTYBALLS]

For there to be a safety recall, owners need to report any issue to the Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency )DVSA, formerly VOSA) in sufficient numbers for DVSA to investigate the potential safety problem with the manufacturer. One member of TOC did go through the formal reporting process, and asked for the support of other members who were experiencing the same issue, in reporting their issue to DVSA. However, as far as I recall, there were insufficient numbers of complaints for DVSA to take the matter further.

[bobkneale]

For there to be a safety recall, owners need to report any issue to the Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency )DVSA, formerly VOSA) in sufficient numbers for DVSA to investigate the potential safety problem with the manufacturer. One member of TOC did go through the formal reporting process, and asked for the support of other members who were experiencing the same issue, in reporting their issue to DVSA. However, as far as I recall, there were insufficient numbers of complaints for DVSA to take the matter further.

This is correct, I was the only one that formaly complained to VOSA, so no action was taken by them, if you don't complain you only have yourself's to blame in my view. Many people on this forum complaining yet only me making a formal complaint to VOSA !

[2ndGear]

Make that two Bob (pun not intended)

I had a letter back from VOSA 12 September 2012 which stated they had
reported my concerns to Toyota UK who in turn contacted the dealership
to look into the problem. After persistence by phone and letters
problem sorted - new EGR (valve) Correction - associated parts.

JC