Oil Filter Jammed

[Len7]

Hi I know it's silly but I was hoping to change oil and filter today.

But I found the oil filter cap jammed. Before applying what I would think is unnecessary force I thought

I would check with Toyota.

Toyota say that the oil filter body and the filter cap are made of different metals and this happens regularly.

Apparently a new oil filter cap is £44 but of course I may not need it.

Because the cap may come off ok - but it may not!

And then we will not have the car for a couple of days whilst the oil filter cap is ordered and I cannot collect it as the car cannot be driven.

For the record the filter cap was not over-tightened last time which was only 6 months ago

Be grateful for the advice of fellow Ravers

[brav]

Forse è possibile cambiare il filtro olio svitando direttamente tutto il filtro. Prova!

[three5]

Hi Laurence,

when you say the "Filter Cap" do you mean the part on the end of the filter housing with the hexagon head ( the drain plug )?

If so, the chances are that the filter has been refitted at some stage and tightened up using the hexagon on the plug rather than the flats on the body for the special 64mm ( I think! ) socket. Mine is in exactly the same state but the dealer says that they always use the special socket. I'm not convinced by this as the end of the plug is badly chewed where the socket has slipped off.

When I change the oil myself ( between services ) I now use the 64mm socket without removing the drain plug. This is a fairly messy business as the filter is full of oil when it is removed. The different metals argument is a bit of a mystery as both the plug and housing are aluminium and even if they are different grades ( which I doubt ) there should be no electro-chemical corrosion.

I've tried to separate the plug from the housing in a vice and found that the thread is so tight I dare not apply enough torque to separate the parts. If I could get a new plug, I'd machine the plug out but I don't fancy paying £44 for a new housing and plug only to have a dealer "Technician" do the same thing again!

[Len7]

Thanks Chris you have described it exactly so I'll follow your advice

That's really helpful thanks

Regards

Laurence

[DjRav]

Hi Laurence,

when you say the "Filter Cap" do you mean the part on the end of the filter housing with the hexagon head ( the drain plug )?

If so, the chances are that the filter has been refitted at some stage and tightened up using the hexagon on the plug rather than the flats on the body for the special 64mm ( I think! ) socket. Mine is in exactly the same state but the dealer says that they always use the special socket. I'm not convinced by this as the end of the plug is badly chewed where the socket has slipped off.

When I change the oil myself ( between services ) I now use the 64mm socket without removing the drain plug. This is a fairly messy business as the filter is full of oil when it is removed. The different metals argument is a bit of a mystery as both the plug and housing are aluminium and even if they are different grades ( which I doubt ) there should be no electro-chemical corrosion.

I've tried to separate the plug from the housing in a vice and found that the thread is so tight I dare not apply enough torque to separate the parts. If I could get a new plug, I'd machine the plug out but I don't fancy paying £44 for a new housing and plug only to have a dealer "Technician" do the same thing again!

If you can get the whole thing off using the socket and just need to remove the drain plug for future use- would "heating it up help"?

Dave

[three5]

Hi Laurence,

when you say the "Filter Cap" do you mean the part on the end of the filter housing with the hexagon head ( the drain plug )?

If so, the chances are that the filter has been refitted at some stage and tightened up using the hexagon on the plug rather than the flats on the body for the special 64mm ( I think! ) socket. Mine is in exactly the same state but the dealer says that they always use the special socket. I'm not convinced by this as the end of the plug is badly chewed where the socket has slipped off.

When I change the oil myself ( between services ) I now use the 64mm socket without removing the drain plug. This is a fairly messy business as the filter is full of oil when it is removed. The different metals argument is a bit of a mystery as both the plug and housing are aluminium and even if they are different grades ( which I doubt ) there should be no electro-chemical corrosion.

I've tried to separate the plug from the housing in a vice and found that the thread is so tight I dare not apply enough torque to separate the parts. If I could get a new plug, I'd machine the plug out but I don't fancy paying £44 for a new housing and plug only to have a dealer "Technician" do the same thing again!

If you can get the whole thing off using the socket and just need to remove the drain plug for future use- would "heating it up help"?

Dave

Dave,

I had the hexagon plug clamped in the vice and the ox-acetylene torch lit when I started to consider the consequences of failure. There is an "O" ring under the plug and if I melted that without freeing the plug, would I cause even more trouble?

Can't work out if I have too much imagination or too little courage

[Davrav]

You could try a dip into a pan of boiling water - the thermal shock might just do the trick....................

Don't forget that aluminium is a good thermal conductor though so wear protective gloves or use tongs of some sort.

[anchorman]

Its a legacy of semi skilled workers doing jobs that require a little more care than they are qualified for. I have purposely avoided the term "Technician" which although is no doubt emblazoned across his chest, is a complete misnomer and nowhere near the truth.

That plug should be refitted to a torque of 12.5 Nm or 9 lb/ft (this could easily be done with half a ring spanner). The reason is simple - it only holds the O ring in place. The cap itself should be tightened to 40 Nm or 30 ft/lb. I have a very good quality torque wrench for these 2 tasks and I never have any trouble with taking them off and the dealer that says they are dissimilar metal wouldn't know it if they were used for the bolts in his neck. As Chris says, all 3 are aluminium.

Is there a case for doing your own maintenance?...................

[xog]

Its a legacy of semi skilled workers doing jobs that require a little more care than they are qualified for. I have purposely avoided the term "Technician" which although is no doubt emblazoned across his chest, is a complete misnomer and nowhere near the truth.

That plug should be refitted to a torque of 12.5 Nm or 9 lb/ft (this could easily be done with half a ring spanner). The reason is simple - it only holds the O ring in place. The cap itself should be tightened to 40 Nm or 30 ft/lb. I have a very good quality torque wrench for these 2 tasks and I never have any trouble with taking them off and the dealer that says they are dissimilar metal wouldn't know it if they were used for the bolts in his neck. As Chris says, all 3 are aluminium.

Is there a case for doing your own maintenance?...................

I could not get a socket to grip the 14mm plug on the filter here is why.

I removed the little panel inside the R/H wheel arch to gain better access and unscrewed the whole housing with a normal filter wrench with little difficulty (although it was very tight).

What I found.

Apart from the hex being chewed and rounded it looks like some gorilla had tried a chisel on it to try and undo the plug.

I decided to leave the plug alone, replaced the filter element after cleaning out the housing, with the new element fitted I about half filled it with new oil before !Removed! it back on with a new 'O' ring.

It is a bit worrying as to what standard the so called 'technicians' are, the service book has stamps from dealers and a garage (before I owned the vehicle).

It is as suggested a good reason for doing your own maintenance if you can.

Thanks to those who gave me advice about this.

Bill.

[anchorman]

This sisn't a silver T180 by any chance is it?

[three5]

Its a legacy of semi skilled workers doing jobs that require a little more care than they are qualified for. I have purposely avoided the term "Technician" which although is no doubt emblazoned across his chest, is a complete misnomer and nowhere near the truth.

That plug should be refitted to a torque of 12.5 Nm or 9 lb/ft (this could easily be done with half a ring spanner). The reason is simple - it only holds the O ring in place. The cap itself should be tightened to 40 Nm or 30 ft/lb. I have a very good quality torque wrench for these 2 tasks and I never have any trouble with taking them off and the dealer that says they are dissimilar metal wouldn't know it if they were used for the bolts in his neck. As Chris says, all 3 are aluminium.

Is there a case for doing your own maintenance?...................

I could not get a socket to grip the 14mm plug on the filter here is why.

I removed the little panel inside the R/H wheel arch to gain better access and unscrewed the whole housing with a normal filter wrench with little difficulty (although it was very tight).

What I found.

Apart from the hex being chewed and rounded it looks like some gorilla had tried a chisel on it to try and undo the plug.

I decided to leave the plug alone, replaced the filter element after cleaning out the housing, with the new element fitted I about half filled it with new oil before !Removed! it back on with a new 'O' ring.

It is a bit worrying as to what standard the so called 'technicians' are, the service book has stamps from dealers and a garage (before I owned the vehicle).

It is as suggested a good reason for doing your own maintenance if you can.

Thanks to those who gave me advice about this.

Bill.

Hi Bill,

it looks as though it was done by the same gorilla that did mine! No chisel marks but hexagon is in exactly the same state. The dealer who did mine is in Rochdale.

[xog]

This sisn't a silver T180 by any chance is it?

No a dark grey XT4.

[xog]

Apart from the hex being chewed and rounded it looks like some gorilla had tried a chisel on it to try and undo the plug.

I decided to leave the plug alone, replaced the filter element after cleaning out the housing, with the new element fitted I about half filled it with new oil before !Removed! it back on with a new 'O' ring.

It is a bit worrying as to what standard the so called 'technicians' are, the service book has stamps from dealers and a garage (before I owned the vehicle).

It is as suggested a good reason for doing your own maintenance if you can.

Thanks to those who gave me advice about this.

Bill.

Hi Bill,

it looks as though it was done by the same gorilla that did mine! No chisel marks but hexagon is in exactly the same state. The dealer who did mine is in Rochdale.

My vehicle came from London the stamps are from dealers and a garage in the area, (I'm in the Manchester area).

I'm guessing that they wiz on the whole filter using the plug with an air tool to save time? Then next time try to use a cold chisel to shock it into coming undone?

Perhaps it is part of the training of the 'technicians'.

[anchorman]

It might be possible to grip the hex in a vice and turn the filter housing off it. You could try a single hex socket too.

All because a rock ape doesn't get the use of a torque wrench. If he needs to swing on something it could be a 1/4 inch socket set. When I nip one of those things to 12.5Nm you barely load the wrench before it clicks.

[Big Kev]

Totally bloody inexcusable.........own oil change here I come.......

[xog]

It might be possible to grip the hex in a vice and turn the filter housing off it. You could try a single hex socket too.

All because a rock ape doesn't get the use of a torque wrench. If he needs to swing on something it could be a 1/4 inch socket set. When I nip one of those things to 12.5Nm you barely load the wrench before it clicks.

I thought about it, but I rather have a replacement to hand it the thread stripped or some other problem arose,

Really apart from a few extra drips of oil and having to remove the front wheel and the little plastic panel for access, it is easy enough to unscrew the whole filter body put the new filter in and screw it back on.

I wonder why Toyota don't use a spin-on canister like most?

Bill.

[anchorman]

You don't need to take the wheel off, you can go through a flap underneath the car. I'm afraid Mr European Legislation and his green pen like manufacturers to reduce waste by using paper elements.

[Parts-King]

You don't need to take the wheel off, you can go through a flap underneath the car. I'm afraid Mr European Legislation and his green pen like manufacturers to reduce waste by using paper elements.

True......Most oil filters are now becoming paper element types

Kingo

[xog]

You don't need to take the wheel off, you can go through a flap underneath the car. I'm afraid Mr European Legislation and his green pen like manufacturers to reduce waste by using paper elements.

True but I was using a standard canister filter wrench, so needed the extra space,

EU legislation - less said...

[Mistermena]

Just had a look at this thread as my drain plug looked in a similar state to the one that's pictured! Managed to get the housing off (With the great advise off here) and change my oil and filter ready for winter. Use a genuine Toyota filter and Motul 100% synthetic 8100 Eco-Clean C2 spec 0W-30 oil. Car runs as sweet as a nut now

http://www.motul.com/system/product_descriptions/technical_data_sheets/47/original/8100_Eco-clean_0W-30_(GB).pdf?1343648427

Thanks guys for a great thread...

[CharlieFarlie]

Tim should the viscosity of the oil be altered ? Sorry to go off topic but I was thinking changing that could give problems as our old T180 engines were designed to run with 5W30 ??

Sorry about another oil comment !

[Mistermena]

Eh up mate :)

I always thought that our T-180 lumps should be run on the low ash (C2) 5w-30. That's why I bought over 40 Ltr of Mobil 1 ESP and Shell Helix Ultra Extra. But reading one of Devon's post it said that the preferred grade was 0w-30 C2 specs. He also went on to say in another post that both the 0w-30 and 5w-30 were okay for the car if I remember correctly... I've used the Motul oil at my last service and had no problems! plus when you start her up there doesn't seem to be any cam clatter as the oil is getting straight to work at the top of the engine.

[CharlieFarlie]

Tim I know the later cars like Don and Kevs use the 0 W 30 oil and Im thinking the later engines must have different requirements ? But our cars were supposed to have 5W30 ?

Not saying you or anyone is wrong but even with the limited understanding of viscosities I'm a bit unsure,

I am catching onto this low ash thing which is getting mentioned often and on the Jag forum where there was a debate (Complicated) one of the more knowledgeable guys said no way should XF owners change vicosity but we should use the C1 low ash oil as specified by Jaguar ...

[Mistermena]

I don't think there will be any problem using a 0w-30 over a 5w-30 as it just means its thinner at lower temps and can be pump round the engine a little quicker than say a 5w/10 weight oil. I think the problem would be if one tried to change the specs! i.e using a C2/C3 when it should be a C1 spec ect...

I do remember Devon saying 0w-30 for the T-180! And as far I know the new Rav's that Don and the big man have don't have this type of Polish built 2AD engine fitted. They have the 150bhp lumps with water cooled EGR valves...

[Big Kev]

Charlie.....see last line of Frostyball's pinned post on the oils that Devon Aygo sent him. 0w30 seems absolutely fine in your DPF'd T180, and if anything may even help your recent starting problems, especially noo weather is on t' change.