Iq Crank Pulley.

[achray]

Hi have just been recovered by the AA. 2009 900cc IQ.only 16,000 miles. Crank bolt has sheared allowing pulley to fall off & break both belts. Anyone else heard of this problem.

[johnan]

I bet that made some expensive noises when it happened!

First time that has been reported on this forum, as far as I know.

Lets hope it is a one off, or at least very rare, event due to a faulty crank bolt.

John

[tarquin]

Interesting.

Shortly after buying mine at the 12,000 mark , My belt shredded and it was by pure luck that i spotted it as i was fitting DRL's. Was changed by MR T but there was no obvious reason

David

[Soeley]

Had it had any work done on it recently? Just wondering if the bolt had been over torqued or not done up tight enough?

[scimberk]

I went to buy an IQ a few weeks ago that had had the same problem, it took out the belts, A/C and damaged the inner wing.

Wish Id bought that one now instead of going to a Toyota dealer. :(

[achray]

No work has ever been done on this car apart from the 3 1yr. services @ 3,300, 6,700 & 10,300 miles.

A toyota safety report was done @ 10,000 miles by a toyota agent with no issues.

Despite this the dealers & toyota uk are not interested in helping repair as it is over 3 yrs old & do not accept this fault is due to a manufacturing problem.

This was my 1st. & last toyota puchase.

[sweet-dentist]

Sorry... my bad... but what is a "crank-bolt"???

And David, can one see the belt? I assume you mean the distribution-belt?

But...how can the one lead to the other..?...

Any photo's?

What? wait ... nó warranty??? on such a thing (in the original car) there must be help from Toyota... Or look for publicity.. this is very bad for Toyota sales.... damn...

And Achray... if Toyota is sooo good over the world... this means something about all the other brands of cars... Sooo... I would not change to a "Ford" or a "Fiat" or something simular.

I do find the Volkswagen Up a nice one... But there are no such small cars.. only a Smart could be an alternative... but this is not a comparison to an iQ....

[bobkneale]

Based on the above posts on this thread this is "starting to look like" another IQ re occuring problem ?

If a few have been reported on this forum, there are likely to me many more ?

Just another Toyota recall in the making ?

I have to admit I must have been very lucky in the past with other makes my experience over a few years is as follows:

The below list excludes punctures & windscreen stone cracks !

Just a few I can remember over the last 20 years ! (old age is setting in !)

Ford Orion 60,000+ miles from new no problems

Ford Cortina's X 3 - both 60,000+ miles from new no problems

Ford Granada 60,000+ miles from new no problems

Merc 220E 60,0000+ miles from new no problems

Merc 190E 120,000+ miles second hand no problems

Audi A4 - 60,000+ miles from new no problems

Land Rovers X 3 off (Various models) - all covered 60,000+ miles from new no problems

Hundia Tuscan 60,000+ miles approved second hand no problems

BMW 3 - Series 60,000+ miles from new no problems

BMW 5 - Series 60,000+ miles approved second hand no problems

Volvo's x 6 Of various types up to my last one 12 months ago, a year 2000 S80 all second hand 60,000+ miles (Some many more miles) - no problems at all.

I could continue with this list I think readers will get the drift !

I am a Mechanical & Electrical hands on engineer and time served Precision Toolmaker plus a now retired Operations Director of a large number high technology precision manufacturing operations across the globe.

The above is what I "expect" to get from a car ! assuming regular correct servicing and no abuse.

There is "no reason" why today based on modern engineering and improvements in technology over the last 20 years that we should not expect to get "very close" to "Zero Defect" and good reliability.

I rest my case, I will keep my Toyota IQ for a few years, as I now only cover 5000 miles per year, however I have made my decision today:

I will NOT be buying another Toyota.

That's it from me !

Positive Regards,

Bob Kneale.

[FROSTYBALLS]

Not sure we're getting the full story here.

As regards servicing, you mention the 3 services had been carried out - but were these done by a Toyota dealer??

Usually where a manufacturer refuses a goodwill contribution on an out-of-warranty car, it is because the car has been serviced outside of the dealer network.

[sweet-dentist]

How in the world can a crank-bolt get loose ?

[Soeley]

How in the world can a crank-bolt get loose ?

Manufacture (of the bolt) fault, causing the head to sheer off?

Under Torqued, bolt came loose?

Over Torqued causing the head to sheer off?

[FROSTYBALLS]

Kia had an issue with 'crankshaft pulley bolt failure' in early Picanto's (made between 2004 to 2006).

The crank shaft bolt, which holds the pulley on, worked loose and caused wear to the end of the crank. This caused the timing to be out as the pulley moved when the engine was under load, and the engine misfired on acceleration.

Some owners had new short engines, others had the crankshaft and other components replaced. Cars which were out of warranty and had the crankshaft pulley bolt failure, had to have a full Kia dealer service history, otherwise Kia wouldn't contribute towards the repairs. Even then, owners usually had to pay the labour costs - in the region of £650 to £850.

[sweet-dentist]

Damn... did not think this was possible... there must be a kind of washer between bolt and ... to prefent from coming loose.. first time I heard about this being possible..

[FROSTYBALLS]

The same engine (the 998cc 1KE-FR) is used in the 2nd and 3rd generation Yaris/Vitz, the IQ, the Aygo/Peugeot 107/Citroen C1, and the Daihatsu Sirion/Subaru Justy/Perodua Myvi.

Review sites I have looked at don't list 'crankshaft pulley bolt failure' as an issue on these engines, which have been in production since 2005.

As regards recalls, Toyota have taken the (I think) positive step of being somewhat over-zealous with the recall process since the accelerator pedal issue in 2009/10. Since 1992 Toyota have had a similar number of VOSA recalls as Volvo, for example. Other manufacturers seem more reluctant to follow the formal recall process (for example Renault with the Clio II bonnet catch issue - where bonnet catches could suddenly fail, the bonnet fly up whilst the car is in motion, hitting the windscreen and limiting visibility).

[achray]

The full story is the services where all carried out by a reputable vat registered garage, who also service our jeep wrangler, land rover defender, audi tt, & 1972 mgb roadster. I have used them for about 30 yrs. There is no legal requirement to use a toyota agent for servising (@ double the hourly rates) to remain in manufacturers warranty. The toyota garage have confirmed that if they had serviced the car they would not have checked the pully bolt & the belts are not checked untill 60,000 miles, so this would still have occured. They have been helpfull but toyot gb are a total waste of time, infact the girl i spoke to verged on being rude. I have ordered new belts, crank bolt, oil seal & woodruff key & have found a 2011 pully @ a breakers for £50.The local garage who service our vehicles are fitting for them FREE (take note toyota). I will be selling the car as soon as it is repaired & replacing with an audi (who i know give superb customer care)

[sweet-dentist]

Damn you Toyota... this is very bad service... We all will buy an other brand next time... shame on you...

Good your garage is so willingly.. and I see that actually it's not very much of a price-breaker for Toyota.. so why do they not be more client-friendly... why would the tend to be rude... If this is really a minot price-problem for them and a major client-binding thing when they help that few cars with this problem... They do make the stuff themselves.. so price is very cheap...

We (I) will look for more notes on this issue... see if here in Holland there are iQ's with this problem... :-)

[s44gtw]

I certainly would not put much on the better Customer Service from any of VAG. (Volkswagen Audi Group)

Be that Audi, VW, Skoda, SEAT until you get to Bentley, Bugatti, Porsche , Lamo's and the likes.

An Audi, or any of the rest out of Manufacturers Warranty is a Lottery.

Their record for fitting penny pinching parts like the Water Pump with chocolate impellers, rubbish Chain Tensioners is not Urban Myth.

Fancy showrooms, Nice interiors in the cars, which the customer pays for,

but it is a pitty often about the mechanicals.

Then getting them to accept known faults is legendary.

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/consumer-news/62383/german-cars-among-worst-engine-failures

george

[FROSTYBALLS]

Whilst a car is within the new car warranty period, there is no requirement to have it serviced within the appropriate dealer network.

One may save some money on servicing by having this work done outside the dealer network, but with Toyota's Fixed Price Servicing that may well not be much - current costs for the IQ being £119 for an intermediate service and £189 for the full service.

If one does go outside the dealer network, from a manufacturers view, they don't know whether the servicing and parts used meet their requirements. Often it is down to the independent garage's word against the manufacturer's.

Once the car is outside the new car warranty, unless an extended warranty has been taken out, customers are reliant on goodwill from manufacturers if a problem occurs - and this applies to all manufacturers. So, in the same way as it is the customer's choice where to have their car serviced, in terms of goodwill, it is the manufacturers choice to be more supportive to those customers who use the dealer network than those who don't.

[s44gtw]

The term 'Servicing' & 'Fixed Servicing', is very misleading these days.

An Oil/Filter change & Fluids check and inspection Service is just that.

A pollen Filter Changed & the 'Oil Service & Inspection Service is just that.

Look see & report to the customer work that may be required.

A car gets to 3 years old and a MOT test and the Wheels have never been off,

Oil & Filter done, Inspections of Pads, Maybe an Air Filter changed.

So if you had a 2009 car with a 3 Years Manufacturers Warranty, the servicing starts after the Warranty is out.

Thats proper Servicing, not just Oil/Filter, top up the washer bottle and grease the hinges.

the things that need done when cars get older,

Brake Fluid Change, Spark Plugs maybe, Discs, Pads as needed, Suspension, Bushes etc.

Best start getting proper servicing from new if you do enough miles,

& often low mileage purchases and less Proper Servicing can be a Problem.

(thats where you need to factor in the cost of getting that car you buy cheap that is Out of Manufacturers Warranty into the hands of a Mechanic, not some Fitter or Technician, to be checked and made good and safe.)

Not getting Dealer Servicing, is then the need of,

using a VAT Registered garage doing the correct Work schedule using the correct parts.

That might mean you missing getting things like ECU Updates etc,

& you need to keep a look out for the type of Recalls that are not Notified to owners,(Registered Keeper.)

which are often the kind that can occur.

george

[bobkneale]

How in the world can a crank-bolt get loose ?

Possible Causes:

Loose bolt IE not torqued to correct tightness

Faulty bolt, IE snapped, loose incorrect misshaped threads, metal fatigue, metal inclusion in steel, etc

Shake proof washer or incorrect washer not fitted, or fault with correct type of washer.

Poor fit of pulley to shaft, to tight of too loose

Fault with key IE (Woodruff key) or other type of key not fitting correctly,

Shaft key length not long enough for application

Wrong design bolt thread type for application

Inccorrect length of bolt fitted or design length of thread inadaquate for application.

Pulley not correctly aligned plus a combination of above

Shaft diameter out of specification

Radious on shaft shoulder not fitting correctly to pulley countersink

Pulley design not suitable for application (Various issues here)

Excessive vibration or other form of "shock loading" from something else over stressing fit of specific design of pulley and shaft

Loose or over tightened belt

Excessive heat generated by something else

In some cases a "combination of faults" (some potential one's listed above) or others could lead to the failure

I could continue with list of potential possiblilities, only inspection by more than just a trained mechanic may reveal the "root cause"

As this seems to be more than "one off" based upon others having same problem, it could point to design problem, or a poor design that is suseptable to under or over torquing of the bolt.

It would be intresting to know what the true "root cause" was established to be.

In my view it is possible we (in this forum) may never find out !

[bobkneale]

One of the problems in my view with the IQ car is as follows:

Toyota seem to have tried very hard to come up with a ground breaking design with this little car, this in itself can lead to problems as follows:

Very lightweight materials used that can be more suspetable to wear / breakage and early failure.

Small compact design that breaks some of the standard traditional engineering design trends in order to reduce size of parts.

Cheaper materials used to reduce manufacturing costs to a minimum.

A lack of enough testing to failure after the new design as been created, in order to reveal weakneses up front and then implement further design modifications and changes.

The above leads to the customers (That's us) becoming the testbed for design improvements over time.

As Toyota now offer a 5 year warranty as a selling point on new IQ's we (As end customers) are "lead to believe" that reliability will be very good, this is not always the case.

[sweet-dentist]

How in the world can a crank-bolt get loose ?

Possible Causes:

I could continue with list of potential possiblilities, only inspection by more than just a trained mechanic may reveal the "root cause"

As this seems to be more than "one off" based upon others having same problem, it could point to design problem, or a poor design that is suseptable to under or over torquing of the bolt.

It would be intresting to know what the true "root cause" was established to be.

In my view it is possible we (in this forum) may never find out !

We will need the bolt that came off to make a comment of why it came off... Broken? Metal-fatigue? Loosened? How does it look... Otherwise this is all speculating...

[bobkneale]

How in the world can a crank-bolt get loose ?

Possible Causes:

I could continue with list of potential possiblilities, only inspection by more than just a trained mechanic may reveal the "root cause"

As this seems to be more than "one off" based upon others having same problem, it could point to design problem, or a poor design that is suseptable to under or over torquing of the bolt.

It would be intresting to know what the true "root cause" was established to be.

In my view it is possible we (in this forum) may never find out !

We will need the bolt that came off to make a comment of why it came off... Broken? Metal-fatigue? Loosened? How does it look... Otherwise this is all speculating...

Agree the bolt is a "key" component to the potential investigation into true "root cause"

[Parts-King]

How in the world can a crank-bolt get loose ?

Manufacture (of the bolt) fault, causing the head to sheer off?

Under Torqued, bolt came loose?

Over Torqued causing the head to sheer off?

Also.......possibly....Removed previously, torqued bolt now stretched, when refitted it was not actually tight when torqued. It happens quite often on bolts that have a high torque, those bolts should be replaced if removed, flywheel and cylinder head bolts suffer the same way

Kingo

[bobkneale]

Hi Kingo, It could be what you suggest, we are guessing I am afraid.

In the "good old days" when cars were perhaps "over engineered" this did not happen often to bolts, everything today is designed to be engineered "Just Enough" to work providing all the detailed protocols are followed.

This can lead to reduced costs, more lightweight components, greater effeciency in terms of power to weight ratios, and better MPG etc,

My view view is that German Engineering is perhaps better than Jap engineering when it comes to motor cars.

Just a personal view.

Positive Regards,

Bob.