Please Help Me Identify This Noise & Vibration

[roks]

Hi guys,

Please could you help me identify this annoying noise and vibration. The vibration starts when at idle/traffic light, soon as it hits 600rpm mark. Then there's this rattle/ticking noise, worse when colder days, on a warm day its little bit more subtle.

Video1 102506.zip: around 1200rpm, before spark plug change

20130608_102506.zip

Video2 at idle rpm 600 mark, +/- few, after spark plug change

20130608_112524.zip

Old spark plugs: Is that lean, rich just right?

bit of oil, is that acceptable: half way down on colar, nothing at the bottom.

Sorry I had to zip the video files as it wont allow me upload avi.

Thanks in advance.

[roks]

I've managed to upload the video to youtube.

Video1:

Video2:

Thanks.

[oldcodger]

Hi,

Am no expert but my take on your questions.

The plugs look fine, sound obvious, but they are the correct type ? according to the Toyota book they should be K16R U11.

I have used ngk BKR5EYA-11 without any problems

The oil half way down, mean a bit has leaked out of the top cover seal, perhaps just checking the tightness of the cover bolts will seal it, but it has a very light torque so do not over tighten or you will make things worse.

Alternatively, a new gasket should be fitted.

The rattle, well the camshaft is driven by a chain instead of a belt so that does add some noise.

Other rattling could be the valve clearances, but that needs some extra tools and some skill to check / adjust properly.

The vibration, well the engine can shake a little at low revs, other than what you can see in the engine bay, can you feel it inside the car ?

It could be due to the valve clearances or something more, like the injectors not delivering evenly or even a engine mount weak / loose or some ingnition problem ?

The Air filter is ok ? no Engine Check Light messages from the ECU ?

[roks]

Thanks for the reply oldcodger.

Spark plugs are K16R U11 - just to add, changing the plugs made a small difference in noise level, I think its lounder withouth the engine cover.

New air filter and cabin filter.

Oil and oil filter was done 4months ago, Castrol Magnatec 5w30-A1 Full synthetic. I was thinking of doing another oil change. The manual does not mention weather its semi or full synthetic, each website tell me different when I enter the reg number. I have some Halfords brand part-synthetic 5w30, just a bit cautious whether to use that or not. Will the part-sythentic cause any issues?

'top cover seal' - Are you referring to the bolts on the spark plug coils?

I checked yesterday with OBD2 software, soon as it drops to 650rpm I can feel the vibration inside the car, not awful enough to create resonance from other parts. Then it hovers between 650 - 630rpm ad idle, sometime hitting 600rpm.

I read some blogs, that the inlet manifold can make rattling noise, the fix is to run couple of screws into the joints to cure it.

Do you think I have this manifold issue?

[oldcodger]

Hi,

OK on the plugs then, just could not see the 11 in those pics.

The spark plug hole seal is a one piece gasket/seal for the top /rocker cover.

Sound like you have the smallest of weeps, for now I would perhaps just leave it alone till you get main problem sorted.

The rpm sound the same as my engine, though never really been aware of any undue vibration, which i think I would have spotted before now, but will take particular note when I go out tomorrow.

Is yours through the steering wheel or the whole car body ?

The manifold rattle, yes have read about that too, but there was one ytube and the noise was much louder that your tappety sound, though like mine it could be in the very early stages.

As for the oil, I've use the same Castrol 5w/30 for 3 x 10k oil changes.

A lot of debate on oil types, though often wondered if using 10W/40 would be a lot quieter.

Its generally semi, but still ok to use according to the Toyota handbook.

A lot of folk say i10W/40 is better to use on an older high miler car anyway

It a debatable point, but if you were thinking of changing the oil I would run a can of something like Wynns Oil Flush though it, to see if that cleans up the valve gear and so quieten things down.

I had some cold start rattling on my old Avensis and it cured it straight away.

[roks]

Hi oldcodger,

This was the first oil change after I bought the car, the avg. MPG has climbed 28 to 39.4 now, I've done 3500 miles and its now 92,500 on the clock. I dont know what oil was in there before, I used Castrol A1 and its the first oil change since I bought the car. I think you may be right about the oil contributing to the noise a little. Since the spark plug change, the noise is much better oce the engine is warm.

Also noticed that Castrol A1 does not mention API SL, but the A3 does. I am going to use the Halfords 5w30 part-synthetic (which is API SL as per the hand book) with the engine flush you mentioned and then drain it out, then fill it up with Castrol A3.

How long do you drive with the engine flush in it? I heard it can dislodge sludge and make it worse?

I've been using Shell V-Power for the last few months to clean out anything that may be clogged, instead of additives. It seems to be a perkier when I hit the accelerator. On that note when I was on the motorway recently, I noticed that when I drop to 60mph its strugling to get back to 70mph (pedal pressed quite a bit, on flat road) but 70 to 80 seems ok, up to 60 no problems either.

I dont actually feel the vibration on steering wheel, its the body of the car. I sat in the back seat and I feel tiny fraction of the vibration when i seat in the front seats. Also, if I was to leave the doors open the you can see the doors shaking.

One other question, the spring on the throttle body wheel, can I spray some grease on that or is that not wise?

Thanks again for your help, much appreciated.

[oldcodger]

Hi,

Think you are jumping the gun a little bit.

If its done 90K then it probably overdue to have the valve clearances checked, which might show some wear and hence the tapping.

While checking is not that difficult, adjusting / fitting new spacers is another matter.

If they are ok some suggest 10W /40 over 5W/30 on high milers.

It would possibly be worthwhile trying an engine flush before checking the vale clearances, just use it as instructed on the can.

Add it after a good run where the whole engine is thoroughly hot.

The Castrol A1 is the correct oil for the 1.6 rolla

API SL is the 2001 standard which is superceeded by the 2004 API SM which the A1 Oil is.

I don't rely on the dashboard average meter, it nealry always reads low, I go on full tanks of petrol and get around 40 mpg.

You say the throttle spring, so assume yours is the pre facelift model with the throttle cable ..?

Fine to grease the spring and the actual exposed part of the cable, check where the cable goes into the outer cover by the throttle, in the closed and fully open position, some strands of the cable can fray and stick out causing a tightness of the cable.

Again, assuming you are thinking of a sticking throttle, its quiet possible the inside of the throttle spindle holding the butterfly valve is gummed up, you can use a carb cleaner and toothbrush etc to help clean that.

Several threads on doing that.

Simply did not notice any bad vibration in the car, expect you can see some in all cars if the tick over is a little lumpy, perhaps you last car was very smooth and you notice it more on the rolla ?

How long since its mot, by you or the previous owner/car dealer ?

[roks]

Hi,

MOT done just over a week ago at local garage, no issues. Yes, mine has the throttle cable.

Regarding the oil, I was just going by the handbook, I will try 10w40 and see how that goes.

Is it worth taking off the Throttle Body and cleaning the both the TB and IAC valve?

[roks]

Well, took out the TB, cleaned it, made no difference to the vibration.

The PCV valve looks a bit dirty and presence of black oily substance, I tried to take it off to clean and do rattle test but this blooming thing wont budge. Its like its been super glued to the rocker cover and I am afraid that I might strip the thread if I put to much force. Is it meant to me that tight?

Can I clean the pcv valve (with car cleaner) while its still attached engine?

[roks]

Ok, so today I replaced the MAF sensor and throttle body (2nd hand with sensors, gave good clean, including iac valve) (disconnected the Battery as well). Initially when looked the Torque screen it showed Throttle position at 12.5%, the old TPS read 10.6%, so I thought it would idle at higher rpm but it didn't. It was hovering between 600-650, same as old and the vibration returns.

So the hunt goes on for this annoying vibration at idle. But what does it mean now that the new TPS is at 12.5%? am I loosing something or gaining?

I did notice the accelerator paddle did not feel very spongy (the old TB had a elastic band type of feeling during, hot weather) perhaps its my imagination and its not very hot just yet.

Any thoughts?

[jak1010]

Did you ever manage to diagnose or rectify this problem?

It just so happens that I have the exact same problems as you describe (and exact same car) and I am at a loss as to what it could be (so is the mechanic).

Tried oil changes, IAC valve, Throttle body, motor mounts are still good. Been living with it for about a year and tbh only bugs me every couple of months, But after seeing your post would to get this finally fixed.

[roks]

Hi Jak1010,

Unfortunately I have not managed to fix this noise, for now I just learned to live with it.

However the vibration is a fraction less after I moved the coil packs around (put 2 end ones middle), just out of curisity. But the coils seem to produce the spark.

On my next oil change in May, I am planning to replace the valve cover gasket and measure the valve clearance to see if any of them are out of spec as that can be the cause of the taping noise. Will also get to see the timing chain, if its very lose then I guess that can be the cause or the chain tensioner. I wonder if there is a service life on the chain tensioner?

I have read on another forum that a clogged up vvti OCV valve can cause some noise, dot sure how tru that is, could not remove the valve out of its socket as I didnt want damage it. I managed to remove the ovc filter and that was clean, so sludge so I doubt the ovc is clogged.