Puncture Safe For Toyota Iq Tyres ?

[Cyker]

Hmm, well, first impressions - Not sure!

There was some quite nasty vibrations at first but kept the speed down and it seemed to balance out a bit.

Steering feels a bit heavier but I have a feeling that the guy didn't re-inflate the tyres back to what they were; Will need to check that out when it's light again.

Otherwise, nothing interesting to report. Feels a bit like the difference between my alloys and the steel wheels I had before.

Once I check the pressures, gonna see what it's like on the motorway! :D

[Soeley]

You will get some vibration at first until you have done some distance. If I remember when I put it in my motorcycle tyres you had to do six miles, keeping speed down so the inside could get its first even coating.

[bobkneale]

I had to cover 5 miles at 30 MPH before Puncture Safe spread itself out evenly, after then no problem, plus I have inflated my tyres only once since fitting puncture safe, and that was to increase the pressure to top limit to save on fuel. I have since checked pressures a few times and there is no loss of pressure at all.

I cannot tell that puncture safe is fitted since then.

[bobkneale]

On the point of tyre fitters not liking to clean / wash out the water based puncture safe when it come to the time for fitting a new set of tyres, I will inform them "up front" that they have just lost the sale for 4 new tyres and then go to a tyre fitter that is happy to do so.

If the tyre fitter is too lazy to do a little bit of washing and cleaning then I don't want to use them !

I do not expect to have and will not have any problem with my approach.

Positive Regards, Bob

[Cyker]

Yup, it was the air pressure; I'd almost forgotten the difference in feel between 32 and 48 psi!

So far so good; Vibration has gone away at normal road speeds thankfully!

Took it on the motorway and got the nasty vibration back at 60mph :(

Backed off a bit and slowly bought it back and had lessened a bit. Did that a few times, taking it to 65-ish and then backing off when the vibrations started before creeping back there and it lessened more and more. Now I can cruise at 63mph with no vibration :)

Tried jumping to 70mph, vibrations came back, so it seems I'll have to do that a few times there too?? Alas it was getting dark and was starting to throw down some rain so I aborted and went home.

I guess it is just a matter of getting the goop nice and even in the tyre; I think the mistake I made was just going home rather than giving it a bit of a cruise on a nice straight road. It probably didn't help that the route home had lots of tight turns

I have noticed this stuff really doesn't like hard acceleration; If I plant the accelerator I get some judder for a brief moment before it calms down.

You do feel those extra few kg in the wheels, but as I said it just feels like the difference between my steel wheels and alloys. Does help with the pulse and glide :)

I must say my usual winter puncture paranoia is a lot better :)

The problem is I won't know how well it's working since, if it's working well, you won't notice!!

[bobkneale]

Yup, it was the air pressure; I'd almost forgotten the difference in feel between 32 and 48 psi!

So far so good; Vibration has gone away at normal road speeds thankfully!

Took it on the motorway and got the nasty vibration back at 60mph :(

Backed off a bit and slowly bought it back and had lessened a bit. Did that a few times, taking it to 65-ish and then backing off when the vibrations started before creeping back there and it lessened more and more. Now I can cruise at 63mph with no vibration :)

Tried jumping to 70mph, vibrations came back, so it seems I'll have to do that a few times there too?? Alas it was getting dark and was starting to throw down some rain so I aborted and went home.

I guess it is just a matter of getting the goop nice and even in the tyre; I think the mistake I made was just going home rather than giving it a bit of a cruise on a nice straight road. It probably didn't help that the route home had lots of tight turns

I have noticed this stuff really doesn't like hard acceleration; If I plant the accelerator I get some judder for a brief moment before it calms down.

You do feel those extra few kg in the wheels, but as I said it just feels like the difference between my steel wheels and alloys. Does help with the pulse and glide :)

I must say my usual winter puncture paranoia is a lot better :)

The problem is I won't know how well it's working since, if it's working well, you won't notice!!

My experience was quite different to yours, I just carefully followed the instructions for bedding in the puncture safe and now I cannot notice its existance under any type of driving conditions.

[Cyker]

Yeah, I think those first few miles are more important than I was giving it credit for; It's pretty obvious I didn't let it get a nice even coating at the beginning which is probably what has cause this slight imbalance, but it seems to be slowly fixing itself as I drive :)

[Cyker]

Hey Bob, what are the size of your tyres?

Also, do you know how many 'units' of sealant the guy put into yours?

Mine are 175/65R14 and they took (IIIRC) 10 units of sealant each.

I'm wondering if maybe this stuff doesn't even out so well on higher profile tyres like mine and that's why it's vibrating at speed, as it seems to start doing it when I'm going round curves and corners

[bobkneale]

Hey Bob, what are the size of your tyres?

Also, do you know how many 'units' of sealant the guy put into yours?

Mine are 175/65R14 and they took (IIIRC) 10 units of sealant each.

I'm wondering if maybe this stuff doesn't even out so well on higher profile tyres like mine and that's why it's vibrating at speed, as it seems to start doing it when I'm going round curves and corners

Hi Cyker, My IQ tyres are I think the standard size for my IQ IE 175 / 65 R15 T, When my puncture safe was fitted the puncture safe rep' who fitted it had a chart with 1000's of tyres listed on it (All possible tyre sizes) to select the correct amount of puncture safe to be fitted he carefully selected the amount from this chart. I did not ask him how much he put in, as he seemed to know what he was doing. I have his telephone numbers as follows so you could ring him if you wish as follows, his name is Charles Foster No's Mobile 0795 665 9588 or Landline 0151-336-8405. He is the puncture safe rep for my post code area CH8 9UT in North Wales UK.

I still have had no problems at all since and cannot tell that it is fitted to my tyres.

Hope the above helps ! Positive Regards, Bob.

[Cyker]

Thanks :)

Hmm, it seems yours needs 10 units like mine does; I wonder what else it could be... maybe one of my wheels was out of balance slightly and the sealant just amplifies it under some circumstances?

It's not the end of the world as it only starts to do that around 70+ and I normally drive at around 60, but it's a bit unnerving when I'm trying to pull a quick overtake...!

Since most of my driving is city-based I can put up with it, but I was wondering whether I should try getting the guy to put more in, and whether that would make it better or worse!

[bobkneale]

Thanks :)

Hmm, it seems yours needs 10 units like mine does; I wonder what else it could be... maybe one of my wheels was out of balance slightly and the sealant just amplifies it under some circumstances?

It's not the end of the world as it only starts to do that around 70+ and I normally drive at around 60, but it's a bit unnerving when I'm trying to pull a quick overtake...!

Since most of my driving is city-based I can put up with it, but I was wondering whether I should try getting the guy to put more in, and whether that would make it better or worse!

Hi Cyker, I did an on line search re Puncture Safe / Ultra Seal with refrence to your problem and came up with a few posts that quoted / stated the following:

"too much on the front wheel can cause the wheel to become unbalanced"

The quotes came from this post http://londonbikers.com/forums/printtopic628005.aspx and it was in refrence to motorbike use, however the same may apply for a small car like the IQ ?

Another internet post I read stated "The important thing is to follow the instructions with regards to quantity that has to be put in every tyre" which is making the same point !

Also the Ultra Seal website (Same as Puncturesafe) makes refrence to the amount bieng put in the tyre is critical to prevent un balance problems

See This Link http://www.ultraseal.com/pages/faq.html

So It makes me ask:

Did you use a accredited Puncture Safe Rep to fit it ?

Perhaps he did not follow the correct procedure ? and put in too much into one of your front tyres ?

If I were you I would get puncture safe back and get them to correct to problem at their cost !

IE Puncture safe all taken out and refitted with correct amounts etc,,,,

[Cyker]

Well he's the rep for the North London area so I assume so!

The chart does say 10 units and he did put in 10 units (2 and a half pumps on his injector widget).

It's a bit annoying that your info suggests the problem is caused by putting too much in as I found another post suggesting that if you get these vibrations it may be worth putting in 2-3 more units to fix it!

http://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/post907462.html#907462

I was going to pop down to the guy's place tomorrow and have him add a bit to the front wheels, but now I'm wondering if that will actually make it worse and whether I should just cut my losses and leave it as it is

Another potential fix was to remove the existing wheel weights and let the puncturesafe act as a balance, but I don't want to do that except as a last resort as once they are off I can't get the tyre properly rebalanced unless I remove the puncturesafe!

[bobkneale]

Well Cyker, The plot thickens, I have read the post in your above link and it seems that some people have had balance problems, most probably not otherwise all / most people otherwise reviews about puncture safe would be mostly negative which they are not.

I carn't imagine your tyres being special in any way as being standard tyres on an an IQ.

Rather than try and solve it yourself If I were you in the first instance I would get the Rep back and give the problem to him to solve ! I don't think that's being unfair because you paid for it to work correctly and it has not !

[Soeley]

I wonder if you wheels were originally slightly out of balance, but not enough for you to notice? Just wondering if the Puncture Seal is just amplifying it?

[Cyker]

A definite possibility!

I do know I've overtaken at full power with no noticeable vibrations prior to the installation of the puncturesafe, but as you say it's possible a slight unnoticable imbalance may have been present and is being amplified.

The problem is that I can't get the wheels rebalanced without removing the puncturesafe as it will throw off the calibration machines. :(

Anyhoo, got the guy to put a couple more units into the front wheels only and then took the Yaris on a V-Power'd 100 mile blast up the M1 and some random A-roads up to my brother's house

The extra goop seems to have had a positive effect; The vibration is mostly gone to just over 70mph. If I push it further there is a transition where the vibration comes back but far less pronounced and it seems to balance itself out after a few seconds. Not perfect but I think this is as good as it's likely to get without me wasting loads of money trying to root out the cause!

[bobkneale]

Hi Cyker,

Your story is intresting, so the current theory is as follows: (It's only a theory !) A couple of web posts as outlined below do support it !

I read "somewhere" in some puncture safe web posts (see this post - http://www.puncturesafe.com/pages/testreports.htm#Cycle ) that puncture safe can only help keep your wheels in balance, however if your balance is slightly "off" to begin with then it might just have the opposite effect ? IE as you state above it then is helping the unbalance !

"If" the above is the case then they should be telling you this before it is fitted ! and recommending that wheels are checked for balance before they fit it !

There is also this post that eludes to this fact that "existing unbalance" or excessive suspension wear can cause excessive vibration:

http://www.armitagetrailers.com/Puncturesafe.htm

QUOTE FROM THIS POST:

If the suspension is worn beyond specified tolerance, or a tyre/rim assembly is not balanced and/or trued, the abnormal centrifugal force generated will have enough gravitational force to pull Puncturesafe off the vertical surfaces and collect in the problem area thereby increasing the "existing" imbalance problem. If the problem is severe enough the driver will feel a vibration. The vibration indicates that a problem pre-existed in the tyre assembly or suspension prior to installing Puncturesafe.

-------------------------------------------

This sounds like your problem to me !

So I think this is the answer ! ?

I was just lucky that on my IQ everything was "in balance" before I had it fitted, and you have fallen at the other end of the spectrum.

I would imagine that they would loose sales if everyone had to check / rebalance their wheels in advance of it being fitted so perhaps they choose not to mention this ? I truly don't know.

Also there is the question regarding getting your wheels balanced "after puncture safe" is fitted ? (Without removing the puncture safe first)

I have not found the answer to that one yet !

[Cyker]

Unfortunately I'm 99% sure it would be impossible to balance a tyre with the goop in it as it will be moving around in the tyre all the time and constantly throw off the balancing computer!

I do wish they'd emphasised the importance of balancing the wheels more; It's a shame they don't have dedicated facilities where they can balance the wheels and then install the stuff. Still, the tyres on my Yaris are less than a year old and were balanced so unless they've somehow gone out of balance in that time (I even checked to make sure one of the sticky weights hadn't come off!) they should have been okay

Regardless, since chucking a couple more units into both the fronts, the vibrations only appear if I floor it past the speed limit so I no longer consider it a problem (Esp since the Yaris Mk1 get extremely jittery and scary to drive if you step over 70! That and the huge increase in fuel use on a fully open turbo are three good reasons I stick to the left lane most of the time )

[bobkneale]

Unfortunately I'm 99% sure it would be impossible to balance a tyre with the goop in it as it will be moving around in the tyre all the time and constantly throw off the balancing computer!

I do wish they'd emphasised the importance of balancing the wheels more; It's a shame they don't have dedicated facilities where they can balance the wheels and then install the stuff. Still, the tyres on my Yaris are less than a year old and were balanced so unless they've somehow gone out of balance in that time (I even checked to make sure one of the sticky weights hadn't come off!) they should have been okay

Regardless, since chucking a couple more units into both the fronts, the vibrations only appear if I floor it past the speed limit so I no longer consider it a problem (Esp since the Yaris Mk1 get extremely jittery and scary to drive if you step over 70! That and the huge increase in fuel use on a fully open turbo are three good reasons I stick to the left lane most of the time )

I agree !

[bobkneale]

If ? I ever use puncture safe again I will get "all" balance issues checked first !

After reading 100's of posts on the internet about it now, it seems that mostly Motor Bikers like the stuff because removing a rear tyre to fix a puncture on say a Gold Wing is a nightmare of a job at the side of the road.

A few bikers have also complained about balance issues, and quite a lot like the stuff ! and swear by it ! ?

Personaly now that I have it fitted without any problems "so far" I am happy however time will tell and there is the issue of getting it cleaned out when I have the tyres replaced, that remains to be seen.

I am learning more about it as I go along !

[Celica Euan]

Heh, I can imagine that not being fun on a Goldwing... assuming I'm remembering right and that's the one that's basically a large comfy armchair with an engine and wheels attached? :)

[bobkneale]

Yes it's the one with armchair ! removing the rear wheel is a mission in itself !

[Cyker]

Hmm, armchair on wheels, sounds awesome! :D

[johnan]

I wouldn't want to have to try to pick a GoldWing up if it fell over at traffic lights, could be very embarrassing!

John

[bobkneale]

I see that there have been about 1800+ views of this forum post on Puncture Safe, if all the 1800 are going to use all this post info as part of their decision making whether to install puncture safe or not ? I suspect they will have come to the conclusion that it is "not always" a trouble free experience for everyone that has it fitted !

[ianlinux]

These tyres are still pretty new so hopefully I won't need to worry about it for a few years!

Famous last words. Ours are more or less brand new, but nice long nail decided otherwise and stranded my wife for a couple of hours.