2.0 D4D 1Ad-Ftv Diesel Noise When Hot

[Duggerz]

Hi all,

I have a high mileage 2.0 D4D face lift which has given phenomenally reliable performance, but does now have a couple of issues at 169000 miles.

Firstly, when engine hot, particularly in hotter weather and having been driven on the motorway for some time but not flat out, the engine diesels quite excessively around town. I mean like an old tin can. I dismantled and cleaned the EGR and also the manifold already. Mileage averages 52 mpg so I doubt the EGR is the issue. I am beginning to wonder about the injectors, but I don't want to rush off and spend plenty without some more evidence. Can anyone offer any advice?

Secondly, I have an intermittent grinding coming from the front left somewhere. Seems to get worse when the car is warm.Seems worse on right turns, but when I checked the front left wheel bearing it's like a swiss watch. I know there are issues with rear backplates, but I already had me hammer on those :)

If anyone can help point me in the right direction with these two, I'd be over the moon!

Cheers

Ian

[JAPCAR]

The first issue is interesting for me. My face lift, 800000 miles has a similar problem, but when the engine is cold, not after motorway driving. Sometimes when start engine (usually when hasn't been started for 1-2 days) and move off on 1st gear or change on 2-nd (when engine is under load and low revs),there is short knocking sound like an overload detonation. Always it happens at low revs -1200-1400 turns. Toyota dealer told me probably detonation is because of burning oil...but I think my engine doesn't burn oil...

[Heidfirst]

" My face lift, 800000 miles " seriously or is that a typo?

[calamara]

Hi all, I have a high mileage 2.0 D4D face lift which has given phenomenally reliable performance, but does now have a couple of issues at 169000 miles. Firstly, when engine hot, particularly in hotter weather and having been driven on the motorway for some time but not flat out, the engine diesels quite excessively around town. I mean like an old tin can. I dismantled and cleaned the EGR and also the manifold already. Mileage averages 52 mpg so I doubt the EGR is the issue. I am beginning to wonder about the injectors, but I don't want to rush off and spend plenty without some more evidence. Can anyone offer any advice? Secondly, I have an intermittent grinding coming from the front left somewhere. Seems to get worse when the car is warm.Seems worse on right turns, but when I checked the front left wheel bearing it's like a swiss watch. I know there are issues with rear backplates, but I already had me hammer on those :) If anyone can help point me in the right direction with these two, I'd be over the moon! Cheers Ian

Hi Duggerz, I too have a 2007 2.0 facelift d4d, and I had exactly the same diesel clatter as you, ..terrible pulling away in 1st or second, only when the engine hot, and I did 3 things after a lot of research,...1:cleaned out the egr valve, which was very sooty, 2: I never use supermarket fuel, ...I use Shell regular now, 3:and this is the the one that did the trick in my opinion,....every time I fill up, I allways put 300ml of 2-stroke oil in the tank first, this then emulsifies with the diesel.

I have now done approx 10k miles since starting with Shell and more impotantly 2-stroke oil, and the engine runs like a roller, barely any clatter at all. cheers.

[JAPCAR]

" My face lift, 800000 miles " seriously or is that a typo?

Sorry, my fault, it is 80 000miles...

(I answered but strange, my post here disappeared)

[JAPCAR]

calamara, I have red about adding oil in the fuel but opinions are split...for it and against it...

Can you explain how the oil helps to avoid clattering?

I thing source of similar noises is worn out one, two or all injectors...

[Duggerz]

Hi all,

Thanks for the responses, I do wonder about the injectors, but surely if they were worn, they would be noisy when cold and hot both. In my case, I just get excessive dieseling when hot, but no excessive smoke which would indicate an EGR fault.

I am going to set up torque to log as many relevent parameters as I can including the manifold pressure and EGR set point versus actual if possible so I can see better what is happening as I was chatting with a mechanic who told me it could be overfueling at part throttle because of a sensor issue (the EGR system means that the manifold pressure is less than atmospheric apparently).

The adding of oil may help, and I've been told that it increases injector life, but have not tried it.

Does anyone know the best place to get a set of injectors? I presume they need programming once installed?

Regards

Ian

[JAPCAR]

Duggerz, check this:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-Denso-Diesel-Injector-095000-7670-Toyota-Avensis-23670-0R190-/290871209778?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item43b9466f32

Yes they need programming after install. I don't know, how much is just labour for replacing/programming injectors (if you buy them separate)? When you find out, let us know please.

[calamara]

calamara, I have red about adding oil in the fuel but opinions are split...for it and against it...

Can you explain how the oil helps to avoid clattering?

I thing source of similar noises is worn out one, two or all injectors...

Japcar, have a read here, it goes on and on a bit, but very interesting.

http://www.freel2.com/forum/topic878.html?vote=viewresult&printertopic=1

cheers.

[JAPCAR]

Yes, it's interesting but as I said - contradictory...

Probably it is useful for general noise reduction of good engine but if something is wrong with injectors for example, probably wouldn't help.

[Duggerz]

Thanks for the responses, I had a brief look on Fleabay for injectors but hadn't found any at that price!

The 2 stroke is definitely worthy of consideration even though I think it might not be my particular issue, I think I'd like to keep the internals of the fuel system lubed up.

I think I'm going to book it into a specialist diagnostic shop for them to tell me the issue. Surely if the injectors are work this will show up in the rail pressure, and someone who has seen lots of these will know the difference?

Rgds

Ian

[Duggerz]

Hi All,

I've been researching around the topic of noisy when hot and I'm going to remove the intake manifold and have a look inside. I understand there are moving parts in there related to EGR? Also I understand that it can get clogged and that would reduce the power. Presumably if the moving parts in there (swirl flap?) aren't doing their job, they could overly restrict the air intake. Unfortunately it will have to wait a week until I get back from Aberdeen. I'll report back on what I find.

Cheers

Ian

[+robster+]

adding 2 stroke oil. I wouldn't like that clogging my cat.

or am I wrong?

my engine is a bit clattery when cold but its expected

moving away from supermarket fuel quietened it down a lot.

but compared to vag diesels I can hear very noisy whilst sitting at the lights I think my engine is very quiet.

sounds as if original poster has maybey injectors issue as stated

but if its not broke don't fix it

maybey even ecu advancing the injection timing for some reason that will cause a knock.

id maybey spend around £100 and get a terraclean that thoroughly cleans out fuel components from tank to injectors.

also get it serviced

[calamara]

adding 2 stroke oil. I wouldn't like that clogging my cat.

or am I wrong?

my engine is a bit clattery when cold but its expected

moving away from supermarket fuel quietened it down a lot.

but compared to vag diesels I can hear very noisy whilst sitting at the lights I think my engine is very quiet.

sounds as if original poster has maybey injectors issue as stated

but if its not broke don't fix it

maybey even ecu advancing the injection timing for some reason that will cause a knock.

id maybey spend around £100 and get a terraclean that thoroughly cleans out fuel components from tank to injectors.

also get it serviced

Hi Robster, 2-stroke oil will not clog your cat, quite the opposite, it helps diesel burn more completely,...less carbon etc, it also lubricates the insides of the injection pump, which sulphur once did before ULSD came on the scene.

Have a good read of the link I posted in post 9, its brilliant, especially the first post by yamaha fan.

At the end of August we will be going to costa almeria for the third time since useing 2t oil, and the engine runs really sweet, far far less clatter, every time I fill up, I ALLWAYS put 300 ml of 2t in first. cheers.

[Duggerz]

adding 2 stroke oil. I wouldn't like that clogging my cat.

or am I wrong?

my engine is a bit clattery when cold but its expected

moving away from supermarket fuel quietened it down a lot.

but compared to vag diesels I can hear very noisy whilst sitting at the lights I think my engine is very quiet.

sounds as if original poster has maybey injectors issue as stated

but if its not broke don't fix it

maybey even ecu advancing the injection timing for some reason that will cause a knock.

id maybey spend around £100 and get a terraclean that thoroughly cleans out fuel components from tank to injectors.

also get it serviced

Hi Robster, 2-stroke oil will not clog your cat, quite the opposite, it helps diesel burn more completely,...less carbon etc, it also lubricates the insides of the injection pump, which sulphur once did before ULSD came on the scene.

Have a good read of the link I posted in post 9, its brilliant, especially the first post by yamaha fan.

At the end of August we will be going to costa almeria for the third time since useing 2t oil, and the engine runs really sweet, far far less clatter, every time I fill up, I ALLWAYS put 300 ml of 2t in first. cheers.

well I filled up twice with good quality fuel, and the noise is indeed much reduced. I was surprised it made that much difference, enough to cancel the diagnostic session. so no more supermarket fuel, and 300 ml two stroke in each tank from now on. it's been a real education, thanks everyone.cheersIan

[calamara]

adding 2 stroke oil. I wouldn't like that clogging my cat.

or am I wrong?

my engine is a bit clattery when cold but its expected

moving away from supermarket fuel quietened it down a lot.

but compared to vag diesels I can hear very noisy whilst sitting at the lights I think my engine is very quiet.

sounds as if original poster has maybey injectors issue as stated

but if its not broke don't fix it

maybey even ecu advancing the injection timing for some reason that will cause a knock.

id maybey spend around £100 and get a terraclean that thoroughly cleans out fuel components from tank to injectors.

also get it serviced

Hi Robster, 2-stroke oil will not clog your cat, quite the opposite, it helps diesel burn more completely,...less carbon etc, it also lubricates the insides of the injection pump, which sulphur once did before ULSD came on the scene.

Have a good read of the link I posted in post 9, its brilliant, especially the first post by yamaha fan.

At the end of August we will be going to costa almeria for the third time since useing 2t oil, and the engine runs really sweet, far far less clatter, every time I fill up, I ALLWAYS put 300 ml of 2t in first. cheers.

well I filled up twice with good quality fuel, and the noise is indeed much reduced. I was surprised it made that much difference, enough to cancel the diagnostic session. so no more supermarket fuel, and 300 ml two stroke in each tank from now on. it's been a real education, thanks everyone. cheers Ian

Well done Ian, you are doing the right thing. cheers.

[Fat family guy]

Millers Eco boost. Much reduced the LOUD diesel clattery sound at low revs and higher load. It is NOT cured though. Injectors all checked and within normal specs on the computer at least. Oh and also I was recommended to NEVER put supermarket fuel into it (this also helped a little with the noise). I had 2 separate mechanics look at it and this was the combined suggestions/findings from both. Interested to try a little 2 stroke oil though!!! :) Could this be a "characteristic" of this engine? The car is 2.2 D4D Tourer Avensis 2007.

[Duggerz]

I've been running the 2 stroke for almost a year now, and the car most definitely runs cleaner, i.e. much less smoke, but it took about 6 months to get that way exercising patience and continuing to add the 2t. It also doesn't foul the EGR anything like as quickly, which leads me to a theory.

These engines both 2.0 and 2.2 are well known for clogging the EGR once they have a few (many) miles. That leads to excessive smoking which in turn leads to carbon deposits on the pistons etc, which will increase the effective compression, leading to louder dieseling. Running the 2 stroke and using other cleaning agents slowly releases these deposits, lowering the compression and quietening the engine.

That aside I'm still very happy with 2 stroke in my tank, I'm getting great economy (50mpg in mixed driving, up to 60 on motorway), no discernible smoke any longer, quieter running. Car now has over 190k miles and apart from the oil pressure being a bit lazy in the morning (approx 0.5 seconds) is as good or better as/than it ever was). At the moment I can't be bothered to get involved with the oil pump issue but if anyone has any thoughts please let me know.

[korat102]

If your engine is packed to the gills with emissions control devices, you'll want to be careful what you put in the tank. If you do decide to use 2-stroke oil, make sure it's low ash stuff.