02 Rav 4 D4D Clutch/brake Trouble

[dogfish1]

Hi everyone,

I am looking for help or ideas as to what is wrong with my Rav.

A couple of weeks ago there was a funny smell coming from the engine area, the next day the handbrake warning light stayed on and I discovered the brake fluid needed topping up, went and got some Dot 4 and topped it up.

A few days later while changing gear, the clutch pedal didn't come back up, so I lifted with my toe and all seemed ok.

When I went to work last night, the clutch pedal stayed down again, so I lifted it as before.

This morning when I was about to leave for home, the clutch stayed down again, but this time I couldn't change gear, I finally tried turning off the engine, selecting neutral, starting again and was able to get into gear and drive home, luckily only a couple of miles, but when I got home I had to repeat turn off, neutral, start and get the gear to enable me to park.

I have not had any metallic or other noises at all.

Has anyone had the same problem and enlighten me as to what may be wrong ?

My car details are : Rav 4 D4D GX 2002, with 122000 miles, I also had the timing belt and ancillary belts all changed 2 months ago.

[Davrav]

Sounds like a problem with either the master cylinder or slave cylinder. Possibly air in the system or seals gone. You mention a burning smell - are all the pipes good? One could have split/come adrift and fluid sprayed out under pressure onto the exhaust.

[dogfish1]

I have just checked and the brake fluid reservoir has gone down a bit since I topped it up, but no smell.

I did look where I parked last night and there was what looked like 3 small patches of fluid on the ground, one under the nearside engine ( biggest patch 6 inches) and two smaller (2-3 inches) further along towards the middle of the car.

I park on a forward facing slope.

I hope this info is useful. I just hope it's nothing to do with the dreaded DMF.

Thanks in advance for any replies.

DF1

[Davrav]

Fluid is leaking. You need to have this checked ASAP. Not sure about the 4.2 but the 4.3 has a shared reservoir for both brakes and clutch. You don't want to be losing the brakes as well...........

[Parts-King]

The burning smell may well have been a brake binding issue and lost you some fluid from the shared reservoir, perhaps the pads are now very low???

As mentioned above, you cannot mess about with this, you need to have it checked out thoroughly

Kingo

[dogfish1]

Hi lads,

Thanks for the replies, Davrav you think this could be master or slave cylinder problem, I am more worried that if I take it to Mr T or another garage, they might tell me it's the DMF when it's not. Yes I could get a problem with my brakes, but at the moment I have a bigger problem of the clutch pedal staying on the floor & when it does this, not being able to change gear without turning the engine off to get neutral first.

Thanks

DF1

[Parts-King]

I suspect you might only have the clutch problem because the cylinder ran dry, have you bled the clutch? Once you do that you need to consider looking at the brakes too as that might be what the initial problem was

Kingo

[Davrav]

Unless you have had any clattering/juddering or any other transmission concerns recently, forget about the DMF and get the hydraulics checked. If you drive into the back of a bus the DMF will be the least of your worries............

[dogfish1]

Hi all,

I have had a good look around my car today and I think Davrav is right and that the clutch slave cylinder has a problem. There is quite a bit of oily/greasy stuff around the slave cylinder as well as signs of leakage in the belly pan below.

Has anyone seen any step by step instructions for replacing the clutch slave cylinder, is it best tackled from above or below the engine.

[Davrav]

Have a look here http://www.toyota-tech.eu/ T

Click on 'REPAIR' and then 'REPAIR MANUAL'

Access to the repair information is payable at something like a fiver for an hour but you can download several documents in the time.

I'm sure someone will be along with guidance in due course but it can't hurt to have a read.

[dogfish1]

All fixed now, got a new Lucas clutch slave cylinder less than £25, but decided it was too awkward to fit. We took it to a local independent garage who fitted it for £55, but he reckons that the slave cylinder went because the clutch is u s and needs replacing, probably along with the dreaded DMF.

Although he is reasonable for labour costs, he insists that he would only replace DMF with DMF and not a solid conversion kit, to avoid problems further down the line.

Does the solid conversion kit have a detrimental effect on the other engine/gearbox components?

[Big Kev]

We have a very Techy and trusted member hereon who goes by the handle Tech 01, who, along with various others, has very successfully fitted or had fitted a Single Mass Flywheel with no detrimental effects whatsoever. You will find the difference in price very nippy indeed. The saving in going SMF more than easily covers the cost of a full new clutch too, an absolute no brainer whilst the gearbox is out. S'up to yer wee self........due to the success of others, SMF would be my route........these DMF BLOODY THINGS HAVE BEEN KNOWN TO FAIL AGAIN, TWICE TIMES IN TOTAL........!!!

Big Kev

[Parts-King]

The garage are quite rightly covering their backs, it's a big job putting the clutch in a RAV and if you didnt like it or you noticed their was more harshness you would want them to take it out and do the job again. I can understand why people do it on the cost basis though

Kingo

[Big Kev]

The garage are quite rightly covering their backs, it's a big job putting the clutch in a RAV and if you didnt like it or you noticed their was more harshness you would want them to take it out and do the job again. I can understand why people do it on the cost basis though

Kingo

Fair point well made Johnnie chap, but an 11 year auld Rav, and also having been telt one's clutch is on the way out too......?

SMF........

[Parts-King]

Aye I do understand the cost implication, so long as Mr Customer knows the score ;)

[anchorman]

Ask him how exactly a dmf can make a slave cylinder fail. Struth.

[Tech01]

Anchorman is quite right - a DMF breaking up isn't going to cause a clutch slave cylinder to fail, so it seems an odd suggestion from your garage.

You've done well in getting the slave cylinder sorted, and obviously working well. Presumably everything is functioning OK now, and you don't have any sort of clunking, vibration or tinkiling/jangling from the transmission (flywheel) area? If all's well, I'd leave it at that and see how things go...

The above noises (plus lousy clutch control, particularly hill-starts) are symptoms of a DMF wearing out and breaking up. The choice is yours in those circumstances whether you fit another DMF (I've had two Toyota DMFs fail, one at 60k mi, and the second 24k mi later), or go for the traditional, simpler and much cheaper SMF. SMF kits are now offered by trusted component manufacturers like Borg & Beck and Blueprint, as well as others. Complaints of increased vibration are rare (we've had none here, so far), and problems with other parts of the engine and transmission don't seem to be showing up either.

Hope helpful.

Chris

[dogfish1]

Thanks for the replies so far. To be fair the man that fitted the slave cylinder did say the clutch is knackered, but from reading previous posts, I understood that you have to replace the DMF at the same time as a new clutch, the clutch pedal is a bit hard and slightly notchy.

Does anybody have a rough idea of the cost of a new clutch (supply & fit), or a SMF & clutch conversion kit supply and fit, just in case it needs to be done. I have seen prices ranging from £350 - £800.

[Big Kev]

A knackered clutch ONLY can feel exactly like you describe, Doggy, due to the sprung plate springs being gubbered. IMHO, you need a trusted indie garage who will tell you honestly if, when replacing CLUTCH, should you also do a SMF at same time.....?

Can he diagnose if your DMF is clapped, or crystal ball the time it has left.....?

Imagine doing the clutch only now, just to have to drop the gearbox in six weeks coz the DMF demisicated....?

Decisions.....decisions.....ME? If I had it proved that my clutch needed doing, a SMF would be going in also too forbye........

In flames prepared am I to be downwardly shot.......bestest of luck,

Big Kev

[voyager t180]

Hi lads,Thanks for the replies, Davrav you think this could be master or slave cylinder problem, I am more worried that if I take it to Mr T or another garage, they might tell me it's the DMF when it's not. Yes I could get a problem with my brakes, but at the moment I have a bigger problem of the clutch pedal staying on the floor & when it does this, not being able to change gear without turning the engine off to get neutral first.ThanksDF1

I had the same clutch pedal issue with my previous VW golf.

It was worn seals in the clutch slave cylinder..so changed the SC and master cylinder.