2010 Yaris D4D Problem

[Stuart303]

Perfection; Frostyballs; korat.

This long and horrid tale is fully listed on this and the following two topics on this forum:-

Yaris Problem - Flashing Spanner
Yaris Diesel - How Many Mpg?

I was getting increased volume in the sump - diesel in the sump. This was a problem that started in November 2012 when the car was 10 months old. It took them until May 2014 to identify and cure the fault - a known one at that.

I don't do short journeys as a rule. My trip to work is 16 miles, mostly on fast roads, 4 miles on M4, most of it at sea level, around Swansea Bay.

From February 2012 to November 2012, the regen cycle was once per tanlk of fuel, 350 (ish) mile interval, I wasn’t keeping count then. After November 2012 the frequency increased to an average of once per 140 miles, average consumption per tank 64mpg. The spanner light kept coming on at random intervals and for random periods, and the sump level kept increasing.

I suffered all the usual b*******t questions from the dealership about short journeys, driving style, using the aircon or heater too much. I was advised to "give it the beans" occasionally to clear out the DPF.

In the midst of all this *, the service manager told me not to worry, I had 5 years to get this sorted out!

My contention that the DPF was faulty way back in February 2013 was ignored - they were sure it was my fault, or I was imagining it. The diagnostics said the car was "perfect", and they didn't seem to fased about the diesel in the sump. They were probably checking the diagnostics when it wasn't misbehaving rather than when it was.

I rang another dealer, in the midlands, spoke to their service manager & explained my problem, he was staggered, advised me to call customer service and raise the roof!

I did, Customer services and the "Technical Department" weren't much use. There were many visits to the dealership in Swansea; they had the car for a solid week on 3 or 4 occasions.

Eventually, through my persistence, they found a fault - an imbalance between the pressure readings in and out of the DPF - it was not being cleaned by the regen cycle. They replaced the DPF, and the oil quality sensor (flashing spanner) which was completely impregnated with diesel.

Since then I have recorded record mpg per tank 70.7, close to 600 miles per tank of fuel, and the regen interval is back to once per tank, any where between 420 and 490 miles.

I had it back there for a service lat week, and the service manager told me they had another car, same model same year, in at the time with the same problem – DPF saturation level 140%.

I posted all this because I was convinced it was a Toyota fault – not a problem with usage, driving style or imagination.

Hope this helps.

[FROSTYBALLS]

Stuart - see pm.

[korat102]

Thanks for taking the time to explain all that Stuart, really informative...and, potentially, useful.

[///MAZI]

Excellent information. I am currently D4Dless.

If I do buy another it will be the pre 2010 non DPF version.

Is it not possible to remove the DPF on these and remap?

[FROSTYBALLS]

New MOT regulations in force from earlier this year - if it is found that a dpf has been removed from a vehicle that should have one, it will mean an MOT failure.

[Cyker]

I wonder if you can get a removable DPF, like they use in places like Hong Kong, and install that?

It's another thing you need to check/replace/clean regularly but might be less trouble in the long run!

[MikeSh]

I noticed on the news a couple of days ago that there is some back-pedalling going on with diesels (proposals to increase tax/congestion charges). As always the government knee-***** 'solution' to some environmental problem has turned out to have an equally problematic side-effect. [Edit: the censor has replaced j-e-r-k with ***** for some reason ]

I think the economics of diesel cars is shifting (partly because petrol economy is improving) so there will probably be a drift back toward petrol or hybrids now. We have a non-DPF D4D but I don't see that being replaced with another one (but I only got it as it was the quickest Yaris at the time :D ).

[korat102]

If people start moving from diesel to petrol hybrids, the government will most probably raise the tax on petrol to bring it more into line with diesel. One thing's for sure - they can't do without the motorist cash-cow.

[FROSTYBALLS]

There are also diesel hybrids to consider.

[Perfection]

Time to report back. ....

The problem has been identified and it's warranty claims but Toyota UK initially rejected. I complaint to the Toyota MD and was authorised the next day to replace: short block engine, vacuum pump, turbo feeder pipe , DPF.

Also put in a claim for compensation for inconvenience and my leg work.

[Awebb180]

there is also a TSB for the 1.4d due to increasing oil level, it results in a new engine

Glad you finally got it sorted

[Perfection]

Some one asked about how I cleaned the dpf. Since the car was still under warranty I decided not to remove and clean it.

But I helped a friend who had a blocked dpf in his BMW. It had 120k on the clock and it was in a limbo mode means the car would not go faster than 70 mph. We removed the dpf and soaked in petrol and alloy wheel cleaner fluid. Used jet washed to jet out the soot. We then rinse it with water. We then used a compressed air to blow out the water and the rest of the soot. Refitted it to the car and started the engine. Took it for a drive and confirmed that the engine did a regeneration and it was out of limbo mode. The problem is now fixed. So it can be done by cleaning.

I will clean my dpf next time when it's becoming an issue again after the warranty expires.

My experience is that the dpf degrades (noticeable) at around 30k miles then constant regeneration at around 70k miles. I.e regeneration cycles reduced to 30 miles.

[Perfection]

Am I correct saying that when the short block engine is replaced, the drive shaft and track rods need to be disassembled?

My cars tracking is out when they replaced the engine.

Regards,

Perfect.

[SmegsterXV]

Hi Perfection take the car back again then and tell them.

I believe they have to take the engine out to replace the short block, so will affect all sorts of things!

Personally I have a D4D Yaris too, and have suffered from the same problems as described above, except Toyota will only replace the short block nothing else. If they don't fix the problem properly then the problem will just reoccur and it seems to fix the problem properly takes ECU update and the DPF to be replaced. I have had 2 short blocks now, I have been told I'm driving the car wrong and all sorts fo excuses. But whenever they check how blocked the DPF is, it is never a cause of concern.

Personally I have given up on the car, and getting it fixed because swapping the same parts twice (in my case) isn't addressing the cause of the problem, so it will just happen again.

[Perfection]

Smegster, you are right that the garage need to redo the tracking. The tracking was correct it was the steering wheels that point to 2 O'clock when driving straight. Only minor niggles. I am happy that they have replaced the dpf on mine. Because this is the root cause. You need to take it to a garage that understands how dpf work and listens to the customers complaints without jumping into conclusions.

If you want you could try to complain to the MD of Toyota. Let me know and I will PM you. The MD actually authorised my replacement parts.

Perfect.

[SmegsterXV]

Sadly I am passed the point of getting the car fixed properly now. I am actually hoping the car fails again as it will be the 3rd short block that Toyota would have to replace for the car.

I currently have a case open with the Financial Ombudsman about whether the car is fit for purpose, due to having the short block now fixed twice and the same problem starting to show again. I would now sadly be in a better position if the car broke then if I got car fixed, by telling Toyota how to fix the car. My car has been to multiple dealers.

On my last visit to Toyota claimed the diesel in the oil and another issue I had that the DPF wasn't regenerating (despite having driven 200 miles (150 on motorway), in two journeys over two days, that the two weren't related. This was the point I gave up.

[Perfection]

Some of the Toyota dealer mechanics makes my blood boil. The problem is....Not that the dpf is not regenerating, it is actually the opposite, it is regenerating too much due to blockage in the filter. The sizing of the filter is too small in my opinion.

[Stuart303]

Dear All,

Well, after 15 months of relatively good behaviour, the regen cycle frequency has just increased from 500-mile;e cycles after the DPF replacement, now its down to 350-mile cycles. No warming of course, and just as well I have been keeping note of what's been happening.

Took it back to the dealership, and was told it's fine, saturation at 42%, 20 miles after a regen.

I have just got hold of the PA to Toyota GB Managing Director, and emailed her my complaint, and chronology of the catastrophe that has been owning this car.

[///MAZI]

I now run a 2008 Yaris D4D SR which has no DPF as a result of all the hassle with the newer ones.

[Perfection]

A colleague at work was going to buy a new Yaris diesel, but decided to buy something else after I pointed to this thread.

[MEP's Yaris GS]

A colleague at work was going to buy a new Yaris diesel, but decided to buy something else after I pointed to this thread.

Just remember to advise this is typical with ANY modern diesel, so don't let them be fooled into being tricked into just buying some other sort of diesel.

[davidfbmw]

how can you tell when the dpf is regenerating itself

[Perfection]

The engine idling speed goes up from approx 600 rpm to 800 rpm. On earlier ECU software, the mpg readout drops instantaneously. On later software they lagged the mpg such that it drops very slowly.

No indications are shown on the dashboard light.

[davidfbmw]

oh so it does it when idling as well, i thought it had to be at high revs i.e. motorway speeds

[Perfection]

The dpf regeneration happens regardless of driving conditions. (This is what i have learnt anyway). The ecu senses the build up of pressure across the dpf then starts the Regen.