Another Engine Story

[surfdood1969]

Toyota agree with this if proven..... Yes it's more than 7 years old now but if the problem stems from before then, then that's the date that's important - cause and effect, lets face engines with 50k miles don't spontaneously blow!

All those with the same car as I have - do you have extended warranties???? Does this process make you think maybe you should or do you still have faith in the brand????

If I get a reman engine which I pay for i am likely to sell on, take the financial hit and lease from this point on, probably a Volvo....ironically the financial hit would buy me another 2006 Rav4 with av mileage - sickening!!!!!!

[Tony Barnsley]

Mine is a 2007 XTR Limited D4D . . . I bought it in March of last year, having already been a member of the forum, and was well aware of the issue. My dealer told me that the car had not had the replacement engine, so I knew it was an issue covered by the good will warranty (and the 12 months Approved warranty).

When the injectors 'failed' they were replaced under the warranty . . . which showed up the potential oil consumption problems, however, despite doing a couple of consumption tests (which I had to top up oil during one of them), my dealer was not going to replace the engine, as oil consumption was 'within spec'. On the advice and assistance of others (Don) I took the car to RRG Macclesfield . . .result . . . replacement engine.

RRG Macclesfield have also had other work from me on the back of this (replacement pads all Round . . Replacement front discs, 2 New Geolandar G91A's), because my local dealer has little concept of 'customer care \ service'. The Disc Issue should have been sorted when I bought the car, but wasn't (my fault for not kicking up a stink at the time), and the Tyres was down to them not matching the price I could get them from Black Circles (130 quid each fitted . . .They wanted 180 quid plus fitting!). They also got the 50K service, (and will get the 60K), and the profit from my buying a 2 year extended warranty.

Faith in the Brand? . . . Yeah . . . . Faith in some dealers? Not completely

[surfdood1969]

Hello Tony, good to hear from you, yes this seems to be the case. They fly the toyota flag but they are very much independent business underneath with own agendas and priorities. The current dealership is 50yrs old this year and having a refurbished showroom, wonder how they paid for that..?

[Parts-King]

lly and morally the OP should be recompensed...IMO.

In reality though there it gets so complicated its difficult to prove who said what and when,which is when the 'goodwill'. Clause comes into play

Don't shoot the messenger. It is for this precise reason that you need to get things sorted WITHIN the warranty period. Legally, the warranty is over, morally? maybe, but where do you draw the line? You report a fault and a month later you get a problem, is that covered or is it two months or two years later? It would not be enforceable. I'm not trying to be controversial, im just saying ALWAYS get problems sorted within warranty

This case is different, we are not talking warranty, we are talking about a goodwill extension period. I hope the OP can get something sorted

Kingo

[surfdood1969]

My warranty ended after 3 years - aware of that, problem occurred 5 months before extended warranty of 7 years if applicable but I had no knowledge of it, they don't advertise the fact do they...so the dealers integrity is being relied upon. If I knew there was potential for extended warranty then I would have jumped on it like flies on ....... What's most important in this is the attitude of not giving up, and trust me I am a stubborn individual who is a professional at looking under every stone. I will learn everything about the engine, faults, policies and the people. I will have every communication in my hand covering the history of the process . If I don't get what I hope for at the end, other will be wise to the pitfalls. Yes I maybe too small a fish to hurt Toyota globally but locally I can and will kick up a stink! Already someone has decided to get rid of their 2007 Rav4 As a result of this as they don't want to pay £500 per year extended warranty on a vehicle which may have a fatal flaws. This forum has been incredibly helpful alround and hopefully some of the advice may help me in this moral and maybe legal fight.

[Parts-King]

My warranty ended after 3 years - aware of that, problem occurred 5 months before extended warranty of 7 years

Sorry to be picky but your problems occured 5 months before the GOODWILL period ended. There is no warranty extension. I really hope somebody at Toyota will look into your claim favourably, but somebody somewhere will have to look at this and say it is now 8 months PAST the goodwill period, do we want to help this customer or not? I'm just not sure it is as cut n dry as that

Kingo

[surfdood1969]

My vehicle was 7 years old in May 2013. This all started in dec 2012 so my vehicle was within the warranty period if proven that was the start of the evidential train. If the current episode was isolated and just bad luck - well no such thing with engine - cause and effect, then I admit no cover.

[CharlieFarlie]

The missing link here is that the Dealer in December when the vehicle was still within warranty not only failed to recognize the very common fault but advised that there was no warranty... This was apparently backed up by TGB.

Now lets be fair to Toyota here as the step to offer this goodwill warranty has surely cost in a very large way but here we have an individual that was badly advised in December so carried on as most of us would thinking all would be just tickety boo..

Perhaps Toyota will stand up and be counted in so much as a Dealer has failed And possibly the adviser on the phone at TGB.. so perhaps they may treat the vehicle as if it were still in warranty..

I appreciate Kingos points and of course the warranty had to end.. But come on now this is IMHO an extraordinary case...

[anchorman]

Well I might be just a kill-joy here but my guess is that TGB will just step back. They have a very generous warranty extension that ends promptly at 7 years or 112k. Many have taken advantage of this offer and as a result, have stayed faithful to the brand and in some cases (including me) been right back and bought another. It may sound cruel but if somebody has missed the boat then it is unfortunate. When this warranty first came out we knew by simple calculation that there would come a time when somebody somewhere would be dissappointed. There have also been many occasions that the well meaning members of this forum have guided new owners through the warranty process. That led almost exclusively to new replacement engines and all that Toyota asked in return is that a "reasonable" service record be presented. The bill for this gesture must be phenominal.

With the benefit of a nights sleep I now have read this thread again and like Hoovie, I am bewildered to read that oil has only been added when the light comes on. Well the switch for that light is very close to the bottom of the sump and to my old mechanics ears, running an engine with what can only be considered an emergency reserve is an absolute crime - it gives me the creeps. It is quite possible when the oil is that low to run the crank dry as the remaining oil surges around the sump on curves and hills. It will in no time wreck the bottom end and accelerate wear. What makes it worse is that there is no excuse. Once an owner realises that there is potential for oil consumption then that is even more reason to never let it go below minimum on the stick. There is absolutely no doubt that this engine had no visible oil on the stick at all if the light came on. TBH, I am thinking there should be some kind of durability award for the poor thing.

Simon. I'm sorry that you feel let down but it wasn't by Toyota - the new engine was there for the asking. But a dealer has let you down badly by not advising you properly. I bought a RAV new in 2006 and it consumed oil at the alarming rate of 1 litre per 100 miles at best. Never once did I take my eye off the ball. Although I wasn't exactly happy with the situation I also never expected that they would cough up a new engine so oil at regular intervals was par for the course. There was no doubt some issues with your engine but you have gone a long way to finishing it off by nothing less than pure neglect.

If you have a gripe with anyone it is with the dealer but don't expect much because it will take a lot of proving and they will fight just as hard as you. For the reasons outlined above, you can forget trying to hurt Toyota as they have gained far more from the exercise than the few they will lose. I wouldn't advise you spend much on solicitors as they are expensive and it will just add to the hurt. I say again I feel really sorry for the situation you are in but not that which you have caused yourself.

I would just make one final point (again). If you look at all the cars on all the second hand car dealer forecourts, can you imagine just how many of them on up to 07 plates are covered by such a warranty. What can we expect guys?

[surfdood1969]

One point the oil was checked each time the light came on and the levels on the dip stick were not thst low at all. Only a top up,sorted. I have not neglected the vehicle at all. I have only £3k to sort a new engine, so will some good will help out there i wonder or are they that greedy to bleed me completely dry. Ironically I would have been better off if a thief broke into my house stole the car torched it, however who would steal a Rav4?

[CharlieFarlie]

Is the oil light sensor really set so low ?? Not doubting Don for a minute as we know how competent he is but what would be the point of a sensor that warns when it's so low as to endanger the engine it's there to protect ?

When my car was under the oil consumption tests and it was being tested by a dealer in the midlands while I was living in Scotland the reading on the dipstick went near the lower level.. I was instructed NOT to top up ! At no time though did I ever see a light come on .. Curios here ....

[anchorman]

A good dealer will support you one way or the other. Go and see what Ron Brooks have to say - you have to convince them that they have deprived you of your claim.

I can understand that RAVs aren't exactly top of the pops with you just now and the last thing you want is somebody giving you a sermon but equally you don't want to get your hopes too high.

[Hoovie]

..... however who would steal a Rav4?

If the police ever catch the ones that stole mine last month, I'll let you know :)

[surfdood1969]

Good luck in getting your car back and they torch it then you are better off than me are you not...

[Mistermena]

What a thread to read! There isn't a lot of point me putting my 2p worth in as a lot has been covered by Charlie and Anch's & others! Gotta feel for the OP as I know, all to well the problems with the polish built 2AD power unit! I would never allow my oil light to come on I have to say as I check mine every day before I start her up. I hope you get a positive result out of this at end of day...

[surfdood1969]

Thanks I am asking for TGB to meet me half way to a replacement engine, can't afford anymore. They have had £27000 out of me with purchase and servicing. I paid for car with hefty deposit and 10 year loan.

[SteveStod]

I have to say I find some of the rather supportive viewsexpressed re. Toyota’s “goodwill” replacement engine policy to be rather
disingenuous. I suppose I should declare straight away that I own a RAV XT4 D4D 2006 with 43k miles on the clock (21k done by me in the last 20 months) which is running fine at present. You may see a few more 06’s on the roads which have
not had the benefit of a replacement engine fitted (which they all deserve), they’re the ones driving around with a black cloud over their heads unless theyare unaware of the 2AD debacle.

In my view the whole issue should have been made very public as soon as it arose, enabling people to make an informed decision on whether they wanted to choose this vehicle or not. I don’t know of anyone who bought a RAV 4D4 with a full knowledge of the potential engine problems, they only foundout afterwards.

Let’s also face the fact that when Toyota decide to recall vehicles to replace a potentially faulty window switch they mainly look OK and commendably safety conscious. One of the world’s biggest manufacturers, with a legendary reputation for reliability, making huge profits would not look so good if this story hit the fan. It would have cost them many millions of new car sales, and would have devastated the second-hand market for other RAV4 owners. So the “goodwill” policy was brought in, it must

have cost a lot of money but avoided the potentially devastating image of thebrand that the general public might have formed on learning that certain Toyota engines might not make 60k miles before becoming defunct. Bear in mind that most owners buying these cars second hand have no idea of the potential for the sudden demise of the engine. " Which" magazine still tout the RAV as the most reliable 4x4(which it is if the engine doesn’t go awol), there has been no mention of the issue in the motoring press, Toyota must carry some clout to have keep the lid on it. Clearly a load bad publicity would not be balanced as most of their
products are of high quality, but that’s no consolation to the owner who has purchased a well serviced car and looked after it properly if he’s left with a repair bill greater than the purchase price he paid for it. I agree that some limit must be realistically be placed on the supply of “replacement engines” but lets not lose sight of the fact, that Toyota did build and sell these cars for a
profit. For what it’s worth my view is that the 112k mile limit is acceptable, but the 7 year rule is not, simply because there many cars with the “potential problem” out there that have not yet given sufficient service to warrant beingdiscarded for what is, in reality, a built in design fault for which the manufacturer alone should be responsible. O.K. rant over. I really like the car
which I bought on retirement with a view to keep long term, and even now could not contemplate selling it on to someone blissfully unaware of the possible problems. Fingers crossed I’ve got a good one!

[surfdood1969]

Very good post. This will become very public regardless trust me on that. When my car died it was on the main road with my two children and wife in the car. We just decided not to enter the M1 to our destination and took a quieter road. It was running fine too until the last moment:( I am still up as I am about to speak with a senior manager in Japan at Tokyo Head Officd who are concerned at the events. Lets see how far up the chain I can go. I managed a team of 20 plus so tomorrow will be interesting experience whilst I am half asleep

[jizzer]

Just to know would a "healthy" engine use a certain amount of oil on these engines ..... What is the rule of thumb for abnormal oil use

[CharlieFarlie]

Just to know would a "healthy" engine use a certain amount of oil on these engines ..... What is the rule of thumb for abnormal oil use

All I can say to this one is very little.. It certainly must be somewhere below nil and the given amount before engine replacement ??

[Big Kev]

Very good post. This will become very public regardless trust me on that. When my car died it was on the main road with my two children and wife in the car. We just decided not to enter the M1 to our destination and took a quieter road. It was running fine too until the last moment:( I am still up as I am about to speak with a senior manager in Japan at Tokyo Head Officd who are concerned at the events. Lets see how far up the chain I can go. I managed a team of 20 plus so tomorrow will be interesting experience whilst I am half asleep

Awribest with yer call to That Japan, Simon. Regardless of all the excellent sense put forward that you are out of warranty, they owe you a wee turn, but bear in mind some nice Toyota folk read on here as well, so powder dry mate.....they will not take well to threats of bad publicity. Any company who ride out sticking on accelerators which reputedly ended in fatality will easily shrug off a non safety issue like engine problems. Seems a shame the carp dealer stays oot the loop though.....at least they remain named and shamed, min.

Big Kev

[Tony Barnsley]

Just to know would a "healthy" engine use a certain amount of oil on these engines ..... What is the rule of thumb for abnormal oil use

My local dealer quoted me 1L per 1000 miles . . . which oddly enough is fairly close to the 1L in 621 miles for the consumption test.

Faith in my local dealer?? not really

Having had the engine done, I've not seen any movement in oil for 5 months / 4000 miles

[Devon Aygo]

Just to know would a "healthy" engine use a certain amount of oil on these engines ..... What is the rule of thumb for abnormal oil use

My local dealer quoted me 1L per 1000 miles . . . which oddly enough is fairly close to the 1L in 621 miles for the consumption test.

Faith in my local dealer?? not really

Having had the engine done, I've not seen any movement in oil for 5 months / 4000 miles

The correct figure is 0.5lt/621miles (1000km)

In terms of normal consumption anything upto 0.5lt/621miles is acceptable beyond this is faulty and for a warranty engjne replacement we have to evidence consumption in excess of the above.or head gasket failure.

[Parts-King]

I am getting increasing numbers of contact from people with regards to engines. Please let me make it clear, as indeed Devon has already mentioned

You cannot just get a replacement engine by turning up at your dealer and asking for one

Toyota need EVIDENCE of high oil consumption, which is why, if you turn up at your dealer, the oil will be topped up and you will be asked to come back in 500 miles to check the ACTUAL oil consumption

The other way is that the engine must show signs of head gasket failure

Your dealer has to make these checks AS REQUIRED by Toyota

Kingo

[jizzer]

I am getting increasing numbers of contact from people with regards to engines. Please let me make it clear, as indeed Devon has already mentioned

You cannot just get a replacement engine by turning up at your dealer and asking for one

Toyota need EVIDENCE of high oil consumption, which is why, if you turn up at your dealer, the oil will be topped up and you will be asked to come back in 500 miles to check the ACTUAL oil consumption

The other way is that the engine must show signs of head gasket failure

Your dealer has to make these checks AS REQUIRED by Toyota

Kingo