Another Engine Story

[jizzer]

And is there a cost for these checks ..other than cost of oil top up

[Parts-King]

Not in this dealership there isnt.................

[anchorman]

I have to say I find some of the rather supportive viewsexpressed re. Toyota’s “goodwill” replacement engine policy to be rather disingenuous. I suppose I should declare straight away that I own a RAV XT4 D4D 2006 with 43k miles on the clock (21k done by me in the last 20 months) which is running fine at present. You may see a few more 06’s on the roads which have not had the benefit of a replacement engine fitted (which they all deserve), they’re the ones driving around with a black cloud over their heads unless theyare unaware of the 2AD debacle.

To some extent Steve you have hit the nail on the head. There are 06 models running around of which, many owners will be perfectly happy. Toyota will use experience and statistics to decide what path they take on such issues unlike a safety issue of a door switch which is mandated by law.

My local indie garage have all makes in for repair and I usually have a nosey round when I am there. It is surprising the cross section of vehicles that have "common problems" - some of them quite severe and expensive (might be my perception but they seem to be often French). There is never any discussion about whether the manufacturer will pay. The best they can hope for is that enough problems might lead to a production change. Toyota won't like any safety issues being made public. These are faults that are down to a proper safety issue like a sticky throttle, especially if it has led to a fatality (although still to this day I wonder about a person who will grip the wheel of a car with the throttle stuck until it hits something rather than forget about calling 911 to scream and wail - pressing the brake pedal would have stopped it even against the engine).

Will they be phased by an experience of a family being stuck in a broken down car? My feeling is that AA/RAC breakdown vehicles are fitted with crew cabs because that happens all the time with all makes of cars (especially French) and that they will be sympathetic but nonetheless matter of fact about the circumstances.

There is nothing I would like to see more than a change of policy which opens up the warranty to any affected vehicle with a 2AD engine but with age you have to factor in fair wear and tear (even Mercs and BMWs will need new engines eventually and I use those brands not because they are any better than Toyota but because they tend to be used as yard sticks). You have to also factor in any neglect or misuse - I once used mine to tow a stuck in the snow bullion van which was blocking the way out of Buxton for everyone but mainly me. Why should Toyota pay for any damage I did by doing that? We are going over old ground here covered in a different thread but the focus has just changed from DMFs on 4.2s to engines on a reducing number of 4.3s. There is a LR haters forum which details rather more serious issues on much newer and expensive cars but they can't churn enough of them out.

This is a story of an unfortunate situation where a vehicle has just gone out of warranty. None of us like to see it and we hope that maybe a dealer will make a gesture or even given enough reason, Toyota might too but we have to face it, there will be some more of them until eventually they are worked through the system and that may be at the cost of the owner.

IF YOU HAVE AN 07 RAV AND IT USES OIL OR COOLANT, NOW IS THE TIME TO TAKE IT TO A TOYOTA DEALER FOR ASSESSMENT. DON'T WAIT UNTIL IT IS OUT OF WARRANTY TO THEN COMPLAIN THAT YOU ARE FACED WITH A BILL OR THAT THE WARRANTY IS UNREASONABLE. IF IT DOESN'T USE OIL OR COOLANT YOU HAVE NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT OR CERTAINLY NO MORE THAN THE OWNER OF ANY BRAND THAT IS 7 OR MORE YEARS OLD. YOU MUST HAVE YOUR CAR SERVICED AT LEAST ONCE A YEAR OR 10K MILES AND YOU WILL, LIKE ANY OTHER BRAND, BENEFIT FROM NOT USING SUPERMARKET FUEL. CHANGE THE FUEL FILTER EVERY 2 YEARS.

THE WARRANTY IS FOR 7 YEARS FROM THE DATE OF REGISTRATION OR 112K MILES AND NOT ONE DAY LONGER.

[CharlieFarlie]

Having spoken to Simon on the phone I will declare my advice is too seek a good will gesture from the dealer or perhaps from TGB as he was as we are told given bad advice.. A sort if damage limitation if you like in perhaps the vien if paying the minimal amount for the engine parts and labour.. This I feel would in light of this rather unusual set of circumstances be a reasonable resolution..

[anchorman]

I've always said that a well written letter is worth it's weight in gold. If Simon can get at the right decision makers on the phone then it is certainly worth a try.

[Tony Barnsley]

One thing to add to what Don said above

I was told by my dealer is that they have been told not to go 'looking' for the problem. So if you turn up with a car with a 2AD engine for a service they will not look for the issue . . . If you turn up and say "It appears to be using oil/coolant" then they will start a case.

The process is started by a customer 'complaint'.

Of course good dealers will point out that you have a potential issue, and ask if you want to persue it

[Paulus17]

Sorry to ask this as i have tried to keep up with this engines saga,but what exactly is causing the issues with these engines.??

Is it faulty parts,the way its been assembled in the factory or a combination of things?

It does seem unfair seeing as how there are issues with the engine when the problems shows later on in its life when it would be well out of warranty if the Rav is hardley used with low mileage.

[surfdood1969]

Hello all I have been contacted directly by Japan this morning who have created a reference and sent a request to TGB to work with the dealership in helping out. I am in dialog with the dealership and directly with a group manager in Japan. I have a limit I am prepared to pay for a reman engine and put my cards on the table. Professional and polite negotiation is now the way forward. I have asked Toyota in Japan that the vehicles failure be investigated for the interest of safety if anything for other owners out there.

Also re the oil discussion, my vehicle has never had really low levels, when the lights last came on its was prior to a major service. I put half a litre in and the oil was replaced in service and the levels were fine. No I was note aware of the issues at the time so thought nothing of it.

[Big Kev]

Surely not the same dealer, Simon.....que....?

[jizzer]

Going to take ours to dealer re water loss oil usage ....what would be your line with the service dept don't want stinging for un necessary diagnostic charges ...should I simply state I think I might have a claim under the goodwill engine warranty .... What's the official dealer response when querying oil/water loss ...

[uniquestar]

Hi Neil,

I wasn't sure if mine was covered or not, only symptom I had at the time was Coolant spurting out of the header tank neck. I called the Toyota dealer and mentioned the problem, and that I knew the goodwill warranty existed. They checked on the warranty and then advised that there would be a £75 investigation charge to find out what the problem was, however if it turned out to be covered under the warranty then I would not have to pay the charge.

They have been pretty bad about giving me information, and quite slow in getting my car through the garage, however I had no fight in getting the work done under the warranty.

[jizzer]

I would like to know the exact action they take when investigating the engine issue if its £75 to just top up water and oil and come back in 600 miles to see if they have dropped...seems a bit steep ....anyone have any idea ?

[Devon Aygo]

Going to take ours to dealer re water loss oil usage ....what would be your line with the service dept don't want stinging for un necessary diagnostic charges ...should I simply state I think I might have a claim under the goodwill engine warranty .... What's the official dealer response when querying oil/water loss ...

In your case it would appear you have a cylinder head gasket issue, now your engine can suffer from a faulty head gasket which Toyota fixed in September 2007 if your car built before this date then your dealer can replace the engine without having to strip your old engine and would therefore need no significant diagnosis.

If however your car was built after September 2007 then Toyota do not recognise head gasket failure as being covered under the warranty extension, unless it can be shown that the head gasket failed due to "carbon stamping" ( caused by excessive oil consumption ) to confirm his your dealer would have to either confirm oil consumption by making a judgement call as to wether your head gasket issue can last another 621 miles and doing a consumption test or if the engine is unlikely to last that long informing you that the be engine will have to be stripped for inspection of the pistons to confirm carbon build up, if this is the case you will have to be aware that diagnosis and future repair costs will down to you if carbon stamping is not found as any other cause is not covered by the warranty.

[Big Kev]

I would like to know the exact action they take when investigating the engine issue if its £75 to just top up water and oil and come back in 600 miles to see if they have dropped...seems a bit steep ....anyone have any idea ?

Wan of us is missing the point here, Neil.....for £75.00, let's call it stake money, more than likely non chargeable should you leave the engine change with them IF IT REQUIRES DOING, you could end up getting a £4000.00 replacement engine....?

That comes out at approx 53 to one on yer stake money.

Should you have to pay this money, that would mean there is nothing wrong with yer engine, diagnosis over, engine OK.

See me.....I am not a gambling man....too thick to understand it all.

See me.....ah would be gambling ma £75.00.....

Kasino Kev.

[jizzer]

Are you sure your not a gambling man Kev ......... You'll be doing the bingo ads ont tv before long .....

Yeah your probably right 75 beer tokens for peace of mind ..... Thanks Kasino K

[voyager t180]

I would like to know the exact action they take when investigating the engine issue if its £75 to just top up water and oil and come back in 600 miles to see if they have dropped...seems a bit steep ....anyone have any idea ?

Wan of us is missing the point here, Neil.....for £75.00, let's call it stake money, more than likely non chargeable should you leave the engine change with them IF IT REQUIRES DOING, you could end up getting a £4000.00 replacement engine....?

That comes out at approx 53 to one on yer stake money.

Should you have to pay this money, that would mean there is nothing wrong with yer engine, diagnosis over, engine OK.

See me.....I am not a gambling man....too thick to understand it all.

See me.....ah would be gambling ma £75.00.....

Kasino Kev.

Sum guy.

[CharlieFarlie]

Time was a church going non gambling type like me was never asked to gamble 75 quid of me choristers pay... The checks were done free if charge ... Still are at decent dealers an all ....

[anchorman]

Never known RRG to charge.

[Hoovie]

Could a charge have been introduced to stop the 'chancers' & scammers who just fancy getting a shiny new engine even though there is nothing wrong with theirs? I recall a post sometime last year from someone who virtually declared he had falsified the oil consumption usage to imply his engine was suffering the symptoms for that reason!

A REFUNDABLE £75 charge does not seem that much out of order in my opinion, as long as the investigation is done correctly and to guidelines.

[uniquestar]

Could a charge have been introduced to stop the 'chancers' & scammers who just fancy getting a shiny new engine even though there is nothing wrong with theirs? I recall a post sometime last year from someone who virtually declared he had falsified the oil consumption usage to imply his engine was suffering the symptoms for that reason!

A REFUNDABLE £75 charge does not seem that much out of order in my opinion, as long as the investigation is done correctly and to guidelines.

It's not even as if it's a refundable charge. You don't have to pay in the first place, only if it's not covered by the extended warranty do you have to pay anything, but then you're paying to find out what the issue is with your car, at less than an hour's labour at Toyota.

[Parts-King]

Could a charge have been introduced to stop the 'chancers' & scammers who just fancy getting a shiny new engine even though there is nothing wrong with theirs? I recall a post sometime last year from someone who virtually declared he had falsified the oil consumption usage to imply his engine was suffering the symptoms for that reason!

A REFUNDABLE £75 charge does not seem that much out of order in my opinion, as long as the investigation is done correctly and to guidelines.

Scammers and chancers would never pay a penny..........nor would many customers. There would be a worry the money would never be refunded for whatever reason. It would never get off the ground

The rules have been tightened up, hence the need for EVIDENCE rather than on someones say so, thats why your dealer needs to fill in the paperwork and get you to do 500 miles

Toyota do not pay for investigation work for any type of claim, thats why dealers can and do charge people for investigation work..............just saying ;)

Kingo

[CharlieFarlie]

When my car was checked I simply went to the dealer who dipped the stick and write down the mileage.. Then after 1000 miles I went back and he did the same again..

Time taken ?? Well very little.. From this cursory few minutes check the dealer got the job if changing the engine for which he was paid.. Now of course the hours charged would not be at retail rates but the number of hours allowed were 14 and its no secret that the job can be done in a lot less hours than that.

In my line of work we can spend many hours driving too look at jobs and many hours doing pricing and material take offs for which we get paid nout .. We make our money when we get the job..

Don points out RRG don't charge.. Neither did the dealer I used .. Says something that does......

[Parts-King]

We don't charge for checking the oil either Charlie but as in Devon's earlier post, in respect of the later head gaskets, the dealer has to remove the head to investigate. Somebody has to pay for that time, if it is covered under the goodwill then the dealer is paid for the job, if not, the customer has to pay

Kingo

[jizzer]

Was the later ones sept 07 mine registered early 07 march I think

[CharlieFarlie]

Seems we have a crossed sure John ?? I thought we were talking about engine oil tests ?? Or observation if coolant level and the tell take expulsion of said coolant ?? I believed these days that engines were not stripped ??