Seized Egr Valve Diagnosed On My T180

[mcroy313]

Hi all,

Whilst driving my Rav T180 a couple of weeks ago I felt a 'blip' in the power whilst accelerating which was shortly followed by three fault lights being displayed;

Check Engine System

Check VSC System

Check 4wd System

The car would still drive but lacked power when the rev's were below 3000rpm... As I was only a few miles from home I continued driving (slowly)!!

I managed to get the car booked into my local dealer the next day for a diagnostic, where they informed me that my EGR valve was seized and needed replacing. The quote for this was roughly as follows;

Labour - 4.5hrs!!!

EGR Valve

Gaskets

Total approx. £790 inc VAT

As my car had been to the same dealer for the T180 engine rebuild in June 2011 under the Toyota warranty, I questioned whether the EGR valve had been replaced then as I seemed to remember being told by the service manager that they replace all of the items which were affected by the excessive carbon in the exhaust gases... The technician checked my history and confirmed that it had NOT been replaced... With the thought of a £800 bill I decided to take the car home and reassess my options so I paid the £50 for the diagnostic and left...

Upon getting home I popped the bonnet and realised that there were only 6 bolts to remove the EGR valve so 10mins later the pipe and egr valve were removed. The valve and manifold were totally clogged with carbon which was preventing the valve from opening. I removed the solenoid and end cap from the valve and set about cleaning it with carb cleaner and a selection of screw drivers.... Within 20mins it was spotless (almost) and not seized in the slightest!!! I got the dyson and set about scraping and vacuuming the carbon from the manifold and finally gave the pipe a good clean with carb cleaner and tissue. I reassembled the valve and refitted everything, bringing the total job time to approx. 1hour!!!

I test drove the car and it was back to normal and has not missed a beat since!!!

So my questions to Lindop Toyota Wrexham will be as follows;

1. How can a trained technician take 4.5hrs to remove an old EGR valve and replace with a new one when I removed, cleaned and refitted within 1hour?
2. Is an EGR valve declared seized and beyond repair when it is clogged with carbon, meaning that we have to pay approx. £250 for a replacement part? Even if it can be cleaned with 20mins.
3. Why is my engine still clogging up the EGR valve after it has had the modified pistons fitted?

How many people would normally trust the expert advice from their main dealer and just pay the £800 to fix the fault...?

[Mistermena]

I thought that part of the re-build was to replace the EGR valve??? And as you now know it takes min's to take off the valve and half an hour or so to clean! The price they've quoted is a JOKE!!!!... You can buy a Brand New genuine Toyota (Denso) mod EGR and pipe for £130 as I did off a well known auction site.

Its over to my mate Kingo now

[Big Kev]

You are obviously named after a famous brand of crisps.....you are the real Mcroy.......great result, albeit EGR cleaning has been posted hereon since God was last here. Still the question is begged.......why is your revised engine still spitting up that quantity of carbon as would repeat these original symptoms FFS........?

Surely they would have cleaned the EGR they were not replacing....? (EDIT) Ignore me......shouldah read on a bit further....airse. Don't argue.........

[anchorman]

How do you know it is still clogging? It might be from before the engine swap. What fuel are you using?

The job quoted might be for the inlet manifold to be cleaned out too which would be 4.5 hours.

Not sure where you are going with this. You resolved this in the way I would have suggested but if you go into a main dealer that has huge overheads you will be paying £100 an hour and they will not normally strip what is considered a sealed part. You have the result you would get from following all the advice proffered on this forum. Should have done it in the first place.

[mcroy313]

I received this email from Lindop;

Thank
you for visiting Lindop Toyota Wrexham recently.

We
value your feedback and we would appreciate it if you would rate your recent
experience by following the link below and add any comments at the bottom of
how you feel your experience could have been improved.

There
are only 4 questions and it takes less than a minute to complete.

In
the near future, you may also receive a Complete Customer Satisfaction survey
from Toyota regarding the service work performed on your car. This is our
“report card” and ticking any box other than “Completely Satisfied” means we
have failed so we value your feedback at this stage.

I'd
just like to take this opportunity to thank you in advance for your time and
comments, and also please feel free to contact me directly should you wish to
do so.

To access your
own, confidential survey please click here

Kind regards,

Nigel Ecclestone

Service Manager

T: 01978720074

E: callcentre@lindop.toyota.co.uk

Have just filled it in but there was a limit on the amount of words so I couldn't fit the full story in!!! arrrggghhhhh!!!!...

[mcroy313]

How do you know it is still clogging? It might be from before the engine swap. What fuel are you using?

The job quoted might be for the inlet manifold to be cleaned out too which would be 4.5 hours.

Not sure where you are going with this. You resolved this in the way I would have suggested but if you go into a main dealer that has huge overheads you will be paying £100 an hour and they will not normally strip what is considered a sealed part. You have the result you would get from following all the advice proffered on this forum. Should have done it in the first place.

I would have assumed that they would not have refitted a clogged EGR valve after rebuilding the engine? Or is that possible?????? Surely not!!

I always fill up at local Shell and use either their fuel save or nitro if i'm feeling flush....

I concluded that the manifold was not being removed as they had not quoted for a replacement gasket where as they had for the egr valve gaskets...

Where am I going with this? I'd like to know if despite having the engine mod carried out I can expect this fault to rear its head every year or so....?

[anchorman]

That is a different question than lambasting the dealer over dealer prices!

Unfortunately this latter question is not so easy to answer. I wouldn't assume that the EGR and associated pipework were cleaned thouroughly during the engine strip. It wouldn't do for me but I tend to get anal about cleanliness when working on engines and would spend hours fiddling dirt out of anciliary parts but a dealer has to get on with it and Toyota watch every penny of a claim these days.

I would keep using good fuel and oil then momitor it now you have bottomed the EGR problem.

[voyager t180]

Even if the original EGR valve was partially carbonned up before being fitted to the new engine,you still wouldn't expect it to become clogged to the point of seizing, after working fine for 2 yrs in the new engine. IMO.

On the plus side after valve clean you could now be OK.

As said make sure you have a copy of the issue logged with MrT and check your EGR again in a few months time.

[DjRav]

I'm not a fan of slagging off dealers, nor a fan of defending them "no matter what".

In this case it sounds as if they went straight for the "it'll definitely fix it but cost the most" option. If they'd have said "we'll give the EGR a quick clean and see how you get on" you'd have probably felt they hadn't demonstrated technical brilliance!

Personally (57 plate XTR D4D) I have no engine issues as recorded, but do regularly clean out the EGR as per advice on here TO AVOID ISSUES. In hindsight, if you'd have done the same, this problem wouldn't have happened!! (Harsh, but true!)

What I would be worried about though, is if they SHOULD have changed the EGR and didn't, what other corners were cut?!

Dave

[voyager t180]

Some busy folks may not have time to clean their EGR,but do expect their expensive servicing costs to do what is necessary to keep the car running.

Begs the question why an EGR clean isn't a service item ?

Think we may know the answer -;)

[anchorman]

When a new cylinder head is fitted (as with a 3/4 engine) the flow of exhaust acting on the stainless pipe and the EGR are stepped up. Any clag that is dislodged will end up at those little holes in the inlet manifold and start working back. We've seen it before where the EGR has blocked soon after an engine has been fitted and at first I found it infuriating. No doubt if the problem occured immediately on start up the dealer would address it but if it runs OK then I can see why TGB would say, "don't go looking for trouble". You could apply it to the entire exhaust and DNPR/cat.

[ANNAWONG]

Well done McRoy!

DIY (given the right expertise and care) can zsave you a loeds of money.

Main Dealers.......................................................Bahhhhh!!!

[Tech01]

If it gives regular trouble, why not just blank it?

[CharlieFarlie]

But we never managed to come to a conclusion as to whether its feasable to blank the EGR on a T180 ?????

Round and round the mulberry bush .....

One thing bothers me with dealer bashing.... We only get one side .... Mmmmmmmmm

[voyager t180]

But we never managed to come to a conclusion as to whether its feasable to blank the EGR on a T180 ?????

Round and round the mulberry bush .....

One thing bothers me with dealer bashing.... We only get one side .... Mmmmmmmmm

Blanking seems to work for some,but not all.

Didn't work for me and nobody is sure of the long term effects anyway.

Agree with Chas on dealers.

Not doubting the OP's version of events for one minute,but you can't condemn a dealer without hearing their side.

My local RRG dealer has always given 1st class service,but obviously there are also a few duffers around.

If you get bad service from one then keep trying others til you find a good one.

If enough ppl did this eventually the bad ones would go out of business.

[CharlieFarlie]

With respect..

The OP has had no problems posting up what is a standard follow up Email or message to check on how good or bad their experience of customer service was...

What I think is fair is can we see the written evidence of the OP being asked nearly 800 nicker for a replacement of the EGR ?

If Lindop have asked this large amount of money for what after all is a basic job with the parts costing.. Well lets say a maximum of 200 as it may not always be possible to get one from Timuffys source ? Well if this is correct then fair play its ridiculous..

If on the other hand the OP has got confused (We all do it especially me !) and has misunderstood the work to be carried out.. Perhaps as Don has suggested the inlet manifold needs removing and cleaning out Then the OP owes Lindop an apology....

To come onto the forum and have a right royal pop at a Dealer who is well known to many on this forum and the offer up that standard Email in what I see a sarcastic way is not really the way to get the car sorted.. It certainly aint going to win friends and influence people that's for sure ,,

[Awebb180]

So my questions to Lindop Toyota Wrexham will be as follows;

1. How can a trained technician take 4.5hrs to remove an old EGR valve and replace with a new one when I removed, cleaned and refitted within 1hour?
2. Is an EGR valve declared seized and beyond repair when it is clogged with carbon, meaning that we have to pay approx. £250 for a replacement part? Even if it can be cleaned with 20mins.
3. Why is my engine still clogging up the EGR valve after it has had the modified pistons fitted?

How many people would normally trust the expert advice from their main dealer and just pay the £800 to fix the fault...?

1.does seem rather high for the job unless it has a manifold off and a full clean of that

2.not declared beyond repair but the issue is if a dealer charges say 1.5 hours for a strip and clean and it doesnt work but that is what the customer requested what happens then? you then pay for another amount of labour and a new egr so in the dealers eyes it was fixed first time round by replacement

3. Its a diesel, it happens to them all. the egr has been cleaned twice on my father 06 plate jetta and the manifold once. newer cars with tighter emissions seem to be worse off

Alex