Best Way To Drive A Hybrid

[Lustral]

My father has taken a delivery of a new 63 Plate Auris Hybird Icon yesterday 30/9/13 , however due to him going on holiday for the next 2 months. He has let me take the keys to it until he comes back.

Quick question , is what is the best way to drive it as it is a new car and im sure it is not run in yet ?

Secondly what mode should it be in as default , i see there is a load of buttons ev mode / eco mode / power mode ?

Thanks

[Cyker]

Oooh you've opened the floodgates now!

The short answer is leave it in Normal mode and drive it as you would any other automatic. ;)

If you're aiming for mpg, gentle smooth acceleration with light accelerator pressure is the way to go with the HSD. If you just want to get somewhere quickly, it responds pretty well to pedal mashing too ;)

You can play with the buttons when you are more settled in the car but TBH they mostly just tweak accelerator response and electric/petrol switchover sensitivity...

Just don't crash the thing!!!

[Lustral]

Haha I won't :D

It almost feels like my Yaris but a bit longer and wider, but damn the brakes on the Hybrid are sensitive and strong. Maybe I'm just not used to it or my brakes on my Yaris are wearing out.

I have driven it in the dark today to get it back home so I haven't really had a proper play.

Feels like it has a lot more poke than my Yaris , and way more quieter and the ride is more soft ad settled.

[Joseph D]

the brakes on the Hybrid are sensitive and strong. Maybe I'm just not used to it or my brakes on my Yaris are wearing out.

Yes, brakes on a hybrid are very positive. It is a feature of regenerative braking.

Beware, when you return to your own car after driving your dad's you will be convinced that your car's brakes no longer work properly. :)

[timberwolf]

All Toyota Hybrids seem to have a just about adequate 12V Battery therefore try to avoid using any of the 12V electrics when the car is not in Ready mode.

[Cyker]

Yeah, the Mk3 Yaris is essentially a slightly smaller Auris so it sounds about right that it feels similar (It feels like a completely different car compared to the Mk1!)

The nice thing about regen brakes, at least at speed, is that they always 'bite' nicely hard. The Yaris also has pretty ferocious brakes when new but as the pads wear down you get more of a 'dead-zone' before it throws your face at the steering wheel

[Lustral]

All Toyota Hybrids seem to have a just about adequate 12V battery therefore try to avoid using any of the 12V electrics when the car is not in Ready mode.

Does this include charging an iPhone connected to the socket in the car ?

Drove to work this morning , all pretty steady and i could get used to all this charging the Battery and using Battery stuff.

Also doesnt the Hybrids have a button for traction control ? cant seem to find it anywhere ?

[timberwolf]

Whilst the car is "running" it should be fine. (i.e. when the petrol engine could start if it needs to - there should be the word READY illuminated somewhere on the instrument panel)

What I meant was 12V system, for example listening to the radio, when the car is in either of the Accessory modes - the modes where you don't put your foot on the brake pedal before powering on the car. Some people like to listen to the radio whilst they are waiting in the car, but it is not a good idea in a Hybrid because the 12V Battery is small and the system designed to recharge the 12V Battery is not very powerful. Also not shutting doors or hatch properly, or leaving an interior light on overnight can result in a flat Battery in the morning.

Traction control is permanently enabled and the driver can not disable it.

[Lustral]

Swapped back to my Yaris this evening and the brakes are totally different compared to the Auris , also it seems that the throttle response is more sharper on the Yaris than the Auris.

Or i think it could be me as the engine doesnt kick in until i put my foot down a bit more.

Did get 59 Mpg on the trip home tonight without trying though.

[Opifex]

..........

Some people like to listen to the radio whilst they are waiting in the car, but it is not a good idea in a Hybrid because the 12V battery is small and the system designed to recharge the 12V battery is not very powerful. ...........

Can I just add a bit in case there is any confusion...

My understanding is that you can sit and listen to the radio, etc but make sure the Ready light is showing even if you have no intention of driving off. The 12v Battery will then be recharged from the HV Battery, and if you sit long enough to run the HV down the petrol engine will automatically start to recharge it. Most of the time the petrol engine will not be running so you aren't wasting fuel as you would be in a normal car. I've done this many times without any problem.

timberwolf - I'm puzzled by the last bit of your quote about the charging system. Surely, as in a normal car, the charging system must be powerful enough to supply all the 12v systems and recharge the Battery at the same time. If it wasn't then some of the power needed to supply the lights, heater, etc would have to come from the battery which would then be run down on a long night drive.

[Opifex]

Swapped back to my Yaris this evening and the brakes are totally different compared to the Auris , also it seems that the throttle response is more sharper on the Yaris than the Auris.

Or i think it could be me as the engine doesnt kick in until i put my foot down a bit more.

Did get 59 Mpg on the trip home tonight without trying though.

Put it into Power mode and try accelerating from the lights. You'll leave the boy-racers in their Golfs standing.

[Ten Ninety]

If you're aiming for mpg, gentle smooth acceleration with light accelerator pressure is the way to go with the HSD.

That's not actually the case in my experience. You're better off accelerating briskly up to speed (staying just below the 'Power' zone) and then lifting off than you are accelerating over a longer distance on a lighter throttle.

[timberwolf]

<snip>

timberwolf - I'm puzzled by the last bit of your quote about the charging system. Surely, as in a normal car, the charging system must be powerful enough to supply all the 12v systems and recharge the battery at the same time. If it wasn't then some of the power needed to supply the lights, heater, etc would have to come from the battery which would then be run down on a long night drive.

A conventional car, uses the most energy from the 12V Battery to crank over an engine, it draws a lot of energy from the Battery in a very short space of time. When the engine is running, there is usually a large alternator that has to put the that energy back into the 12V Battery. It has to be done quickly enough for the typical journey of the car. As a ratio, the amount of energy drawn from the battery to power the interior lights or simple AM/FM radio is relatively small compared with that required to crank an engine.

With a Toyota Hybrid, I would suggest that to Power on the computers, switch a few relays, and possibly re-pressurize the hydraulic brake system would not draw as much energy as cranking an engine in a conventional car, so the Toyota engineers would have designed a system that needs to put far less energy back into their 12V battery as it improves the MPG. I think running the interior lights or radio when in an Accessory mode (i.e. not READY) would have a greater impact than in a conventional car because I think the Toyota engineers made a design decision to reduce the 12V recharging to a minimum that doesn't adequately support a frequent or long use of the Accessory mode.

[Cyker]

The ickle 12v is charged directly from the bigass HV Battery via a DC-to-DC stepdown (But only when the car is 'on'). Very efficient but can't handle a lot of amps (Another reason you shouldn't try to jumpstart anything with a HSD!)

[Duffryn]

Whilst the car is "running" it should be fine. (i.e. when the petrol engine could start if it needs to - there should be the word READY illuminated somewhere on the instrument panel)

What I meant was 12V system, for example listening to the radio, when the car is in either of the Accessory modes - the modes where you don't put your foot on the brake pedal before powering on the car. Some people like to listen to the radio whilst they are waiting in the car, but it is not a good idea in a Hybrid because the 12V battery is small and the system designed to recharge the 12V battery is not very powerful. Also not shutting doors or hatch properly, or leaving an interior light on overnight can result in a flat battery in the morning.

Traction control is permanently enabled and the driver can not disable it.

So - and just to clarify - are you saying that if for instance I'm parked on the harbourside car park for an hour or so gazing out to sea (often happens!), with the radio on then it is advisable to always hold the car in READY mode, ie with the 'ignition' on?

Already flattened the 12v once by leaving the interior light on all night, inadvertently, so don't want to encourage further problems with it.

[johalareewi]

So - and just to clarify - are you saying that if for instance I'm parked on the harbourside car park for an hour or so gazing out to sea (often happens!), with the radio on then it is advisable to always hold the car in READY mode, ie with the 'ignition' on?

Yup.

Just pull up, put it in Park, apply handbrake, wind down windows, turn off heating/aircon, leave the car in READY and listen to the radio for as long as you like.

If it is windy, raining, cold you might leave the windows up and use the heating/aircon. ;)

FWIW if you listen to the radio in the not READY state then after an hour the car will switch the radio off (well it does in the gen3 Prius).

[Duffryn]

OK, thanks for that. Understand that if car in READY state then ALL electrics are provided by HV Battery - never seem to stop learning with the Prius! :)

[Opifex]

So - and just to clarify - are you saying that if for instance I'm parked on the harbourside car park for an hour or so gazing out to sea (often happens!), with the radio on then it is advisable to always hold the car in READY mode, ie with the 'ignition' on?

Yup.

Just pull up, put it in Park, apply handbrake, wind down windows, turn off heating/aircon, leave the car in READY and listen to the radio for as long as you like.

If it is windy, raining, cold you might leave the windows up and use the heating/aircon. ;)

FWIW if you listen to the radio in the not READY state then after an hour the car will switch the radio off (well it does in the gen3 Prius).

I've wondered what happens if you sit too long in Accessory mode. I assume it also shuts down everything else.

The posts that have appeared on the forum from time to time saying you will be stranded if you sit too long listening to the radio in Accessory mode have never sounded very feasable. The car protects itself from owner mistakes in so many other ways that I couldn't believe the designers would have failed to put in protection against any danger during normal usage. At the same time I never actually had the courage to test it. Well done that brave man.

To emphasise what has been said earlier, you can sit all day and turn on whatever you like while in Ready mode. Also, there is no real disadvantage to using Ready since the engine will only start occasionally to recharge the HV Battery when necessary.

This leads to another thought. Why do we need an Accesory mode at all? I'd had the car for several month's before I found that there is an Accessory mode and I don't think I've used it since. Any ideas, anyone?

[johalareewi]

Understand that if car in READY state then ALL electrics are provided by HV battery.

I have wondered.

All the normal car electrics are 12v and powered by the 12V Battery when in accessory mode.

The 12V Battery is charged from the HV Battery when in READY mode.

So when in READY mode, are the car electrics still powered by the 12V battery or does the 12V now come directly from the HV battery?

HV -> 12V -> Radio etc.

or

HV -> 12V

+

HV -> Radio etc.

[johalareewi]

The posts that have appeared on the forum from time to time saying you will be stranded if you sit too long listening to the radio in Accessory mode have never sounded very feasable. The car protects itself from owner mistakes in so many other ways that I couldn't believe the designers would have failed to put in protection against any danger during normal usage. At the same time I never actually had the courage to test it. Well done that brave man.

After an hour, a message appears on the MFD saying 'turning off to conserve Battery power' (or something like that) and accessory mode is then switched off. It does seem to be time related and not the 12V SOC because you can turn accessory mode back on and an hour later, it does it again.

[Surv1v0r]

Already flattened the 12v once by leaving the interior light on all night, inadvertently, so don't want to encourage further problems with it.

As a matter of interest; if you DO end up with a flat Battery on a Prius, what is the protocol for starting it or is it effectively impossible to flatten the High Voltage Battery and that will always allow you to start the car?

edited - sorry, please ignore. Just seen the "Battery has discharged!" thread which answers this question in huge detail.

[Cyker]

Understand that if car in READY state then ALL electrics are provided by HV battery.

I have wondered.

All the normal car electrics are 12v and powered by the 12V Battery when in accessory mode.

The 12V Battery is charged from the HV Battery when in READY mode.

So when in READY mode, are the car electrics still powered by the 12V battery or does the 12V now come directly from the HV battery?

HV -> 12V -> Radio etc.

or

HV -> 12V

+

HV -> Radio etc.

I don't know for 100% certain, but the way I understand the wiring diagram, there is no direct path from the HV to the 12v system; It all comes through the DC-DC stepdown that's hooked up to the 12v battery.

It does kinda depend how you look at it tho' as, in theory, if you somehow disconnected the 12v battery while the system was live, the HV would still be pumping power through the DC-DC stepdown and keeping the 12v system on-line.

re: flat battery - All rechargeables really hate being completely discharged and it shortens their life considerably. The HSD is pretty clever and tries to keep the HV between 20% and 80% as this can double or even triple the life of the battery.

It turns out the 12v, although easy to drain accidentally, isn't too bad as you don't need loads of amps like in a normal car - You just need enough to power up the computer so it can bring the HV battery on-line.

I read somewhere a guy bought two 6v lantern batteries and some crocodile clips and hooked it up to the fusebox to get his HSD started

The HV battery going flat is a lot more serious; The simplest fix in that scenario seems to be replace the whole HV with an energised one (Unless it's a Plug in! :)) as you can't charge it via the DC-DC stepdown to the 12v and everything else involves high-voltage DC electrics . However, you'd have to try really hard to totally discharge the HV; The only real-life scenario I can see it happening is if it was drained to 20% and then left off for a whole year.

[Duffryn]

When I flattened my 12v Battery (on a Sunday) I called Toyota Assist, and the AA man appeared at my house within 35 minutes.It then took him all of 20 seconds to start the car, and a further 20 minutes to talk about it. Said he was very impressed with the Prius, only ever got called out to them for flat 12v batteries (ahem) or punctures. As an aside - he also mentioned some popular manufacturers that caused most problems (and therefore best avoided!), one of which surprised me somewhat given it's reputation in this country.

He also said that the 12v operates a 'relay' to bring the HV into operation, and emphasised that there was obviously no need to drive the car for X miles to recharge the 12v, the HV would sort it.

Apologies if I've gone a bit off-topic.

[timberwolf]

johalareewi - Current flows when there is a voltage difference. The DC-DC (Direct Current) converter output has a higher voltage than the 12V Battery. The DC-DC converter and 12V Battery are effectively wired in parallel, so the one with the higher voltage determines who will supply the energy and who is going to take some of it.

Cyker - Inverter and AC (Alternating Current)?

Duffryn - Have you forgotten to mention something in your explanation? - if the relay switches the HV out when the car is off, how will the the HV sort out the 12V Battery?

[Duffryn]

No idea I'm afraid, but presumably when it's on. Just trying to quote as I remember the AA man told me 7 months ago.

Anyways, the 12v got itself recharged somehow, and had no problems since...........yet.