Best Way To Drive A Hybrid

[timberwolf]

A realistic mpg does suck in the cooler months of the year

You may want to correct your Fuelly data.

1) Some of your data appears to be incorrectly entered, I think you may have mixed up the entry of two fill-ups, and that seems to have caused their calculation to exclude three entries on the log? If you correct that I think it will show the mpg for each entry, although your overall average from your data seems to be 48 mpg.

2) Two of your fill-ups are less than 2 gallons, I think it can confuse the fuel gauge, although it shouldn't necessarily affect mpg (assuming your data is correct, and I'm not entirely convinced about the entry that would give 38 mpg?)

3) Your data covers just 4 entries in November, are you a new owner? (A Hybrid's mpg can vary a lot between Summer and Winter).

To start with you could check the following:

1) Engine Oil should be a 0w-20. For example, a car previously Fleet owned may have been serviced with 5w-30.

2) Tyres should ideally be LRR (Low Rolling Resistance), and the PSI should not be below the value on the door label.

There is a lot more...

[johalareewi]

I try to drive this the proper way (I think) for hybrids - gentle acceleration, gentle braking etc but only 50mpg sucks!

Gentle acceleration doesn't necessarily mean low fuel consumption.

The petrol engine has an optimum operating speed (revs).

At low revs, the petrol engine is not that efficient so you are better off accelerating briskly up to speed. Also, hybrid mpgs drop when it is cold and damp. On the plus side, they soar when it is warm and dry.

[Alan_B]

When I fill up my Yaris Hybrid it tells me that the range is just over 400 miles. Since the fuel capacity is 36 l (7.9 g) the the car expects to average approximately 52 mpg. That's actually very close to what I have managed on my first few fill-ups. But is this range figure fixed or does it reflect actual past fuel consumption? If it is a fixed number then presumably it reflects Toyota's conservative estimate of what fuel consumption you will actually achieve.

[PeteB]

... But is this range figure fixed or does it reflect actual past fuel consumption? If it is a fixed number then presumably it reflects Toyota's conservative estimate of what fuel consumption you will actually achieve.

It uses recent fuel consumption.

If I fill up my Gen 3 Prius after a long journey when I've averaged 70+ mpg it might show that my 9 gal tank will give 530-550 miles, but if I've spent the last few days doing short journeys it might show 470-500. It's still being cautious because 9x70 is 630!

I've never seen or heard a spec for how far back it looks, but when I had a Volvo with a trip computer the book said it used the last 20 miles.

[vorlon69]

I have found that brisk acceleration (like a normal car) up to close to required speed seems to drastically improve fuel performance & then gliding or gentle acceleration to engage the electric motor.

A normal 11 mile daily trip used to be about 40-48mpg & using brisk acceleration I am now achieving 55-60mpg - I even got 61mpg on 1 trip

Thanks for all your help guys, much better support here than Toyota's Technical Support!

[Alan_B]

"Brisk" is a rather subjective term. Does that involve a foray into the 'Power' area on the Hybrid System Indicator dial?

[Cyker]

Well there seems to be a bit of conflicting info, but the majority seem to suggest accelerating as hard as you can without going into the power band for optimal efficiency?

[johalareewi]

"Brisk" is a rather subjective term. Does that involve a foray into the 'Power' area on the Hybrid System Indicator dial?

It sure can but the occasional trip into Power land is allowed ;)

Well there seems to be a bit of conflicting info, but the majority seem to suggest accelerating as hard as you can without going into the power band for optimal efficiency?

With the gen3, aim for the crossover line between ECO and Power on the HSI.

Easy to do with the HSI on the HUD.

The worst place to be on the HSI is just over the halfway line in the ECO section.

At this point the ICE is usually running but at low revs so not being as efficient as it can be.

[Alan_B]

If I drive at speed with the HSI at the (wider) halfway line in the ECO section I am told I am getting 100 mpg. That's the same reading as when the car is running in EV mode but without the EV indicator being on. Up to the next line the car reports between 75 to 100 mpg and can probably manage around 55 mph on the flat. This had lead me to believe this was the best place to be for fuel economy, not the worst!

[Grumpy Cabbie]

I agree BUT I think it depends on the circumstances. Trying to keep the car in electric in town is counter productive as eventually the engine will have to work to put charge back in the car, but keeping the car just nicely ticking along at 50 mph has given me some totally amazing mpg's (80+ mpg). I'm sure they'll be even better in a Yaris Hybrid.

When people say diesels are better for long runs, I sometimes question that suggestion. In my commute to York I could get averages over 70 mpg in the summer and if I didn't have traffic at both ends of the commute the figure would have been 85/95 mpg some days.

[Cyker]

Well they are generally comparing like for like when they say diesel are better than petrols for distance driving; Obviously comparing a HSD to, say, a diesel Hilux, the HSD will win easily

The basic reasoning is that Diesel engines generally run at lower RPM at a given speed, ergo they use less fuel.

I reckon a diesel HSD would be amazing if they can overcome the 'cold-engine' problem you get with diesels that aren't put under enough load or run too infrequently. It would make the HSD a lot quieter under load as it wouldn't need to rev the engine up to such high levels, and as the HSD can control the RPM the engine runs at better, a diesel engine could be optimised for a narrow RPM band which would allow it to deliver stacks of torque and lower fuel usage.

[johalareewi]

If I drive at speed with the HSI at the (wider) halfway line in the ECO section I am told I am getting 100 mpg. That's the same reading as when the car is running in EV mode but without the EV indicator being on. Up to the next line the car reports between 75 to 100 mpg and can probably manage around 55 mph on the flat. This had lead me to believe this was the best place to be for fuel economy, not the worst!

There is a good thread on prius chat about the gen3 engine efficiency.

http://priuschat.com/threads/2010-prius-2zr-fxe-engine-efficiency-map.62586/

While you might be getting more instant mpg at the midway point on the HSI compared to further up, if you are accelerating up to speed, it will take longer if you stay at the HSI midpoint.

At the HSI midpoint, the ICE is not likely to be running at its most efficient rpm so your overall fuel consumption is likely to be higher than if you had run the ICE at an efficient rpm for a shorter period.

[Ethanedwards]

Well they are generally comparing like for like when they say diesel are better than petrols for distance driving; Obviously comparing a HSD to, say, a diesel Hilux, the HSD will win easily

The basic reasoning is that Diesel engines generally run at lower RPM at a given speed, ergo they use less fuel.

I reckon a diesel HSD would be amazing if they can overcome the 'cold-engine' problem you get with diesels that aren't put under enough load or run too infrequently. It would make the HSD a lot quieter under load as it wouldn't need to rev the engine up to such high levels, and as the HSD can control the RPM the engine runs at better, a diesel engine could be optimised for a narrow RPM band which would allow it to deliver stacks of torque and lower fuel usage.

Your in luck they do make a Diesel hybrid. It's the Citroen DS and they are selling like 'hot cakes' er make that 'cold dog leavings'.

Reportedly very expensive and rubbish in comparison to Toyota's offering.

[RunningInPleasePass]

Well they are generally comparing like for like when they say diesel are better than petrols for distance driving; Obviously comparing a HSD to, say, a diesel Hilux, the HSD will win easily

The basic reasoning is that Diesel engines generally run at lower RPM at a given speed, ergo they use less fuel.

I reckon a diesel HSD would be amazing if they can overcome the 'cold-engine' problem you get with diesels that aren't put under enough load or run too infrequently. It would make the HSD a lot quieter under load as it wouldn't need to rev the engine up to such high levels, and as the HSD can control the RPM the engine runs at better, a diesel engine could be optimised for a narrow RPM band which would allow it to deliver stacks of torque and lower fuel usage.

I have just given up on diesels after many years, modern diesel engines are very complicated, EGR Valves, DPF, and Dual Mass Flywheels spring to mind, which give problems that are expensive to sort out, so I hope hybrid cars stick with petrol engines.

[Cyker]

Well the main issue with the currently available diesel-electric hybrids is that they are French so what do you expect

Toyota have a stranglehold on hybrid tech at the moment and have locked out pretty much everyone else with the patents they have on it so for the forseeable future they will continue to blow everyone else out of the water with it.

The only threat they have is if anyone figures out a much better way to store electricity than current Battery tech, but the fact remains a properly setup diesel engine would be able to deliver incredible mpg if combined with the HSD.

The only reason modern diesels have lost their reliability crown is due to emissions regulations, but if you're tuning it for running with the HSD you don't need any of crap that has been bolted on to diesel engines in recent years in order to kludge the emissions figures. You could probably get away with running it between 800 and 2000rpm and it would still deliver more torque than the HSD's petrol engine does at 6000rpm!

My Yaris D4D is like, 10 years old, and is still delivering seriously good mpgs, without compromising on performance or reliability. I'm certain if diesels weren't so heavily restricted we'd be nearing 100mpg with them by now, but very few manufacturers are doing any serious diesel research these days because the constantly moving goal posts is making it so difficult and expensive.

Worryingly, petrols seem to be heading down this route too tho' - They've already been getting EGRs (Which are even more pointless on a petrol engine than a diesel!) and I wouldn't be surprised if some other idiotic emissions kludge like a CO2 scrubber made their way into petrol exhausts, creating a DPF-like blockage... :(

Realistically tho', I reckon we're heading for hydrogen/methane fuel-cell systems. Right now the only real major obstacle is that companies are terrible at working together to agree on standardization for distribution/infrastructure.

[Aceshigh84]

Petrol engines have had egr systems on them for years, long before all the new diesel systems came out due to the emissions. And isn't the catalytic converter similar to a dpf in that if the car isn't driven for long periods enough to warm it up properly, the cat will eventually break down giving you awful mpg and need replacing?

[Ethanedwards]

Well the main issue with the currently available diesel-electric hybrids is that they are French so what do you expect

Well though I do know where your coming from it's worth mentioning that my (utterly awesome in every way) Yaris HSD is in fact as far as I am aware nailed together 'en francais' mon ami. Much as most Honda's are made in Swindon.

Those national steroetypes (we came to know and love) are breaking down. That'll be globalisation I expect. Hope no unionista version of 'Led Lobbo' comes along to ruin it.

Though reassuringly if BA is anything to go by us Brits when it comes to air transportation couldn't organise a pi55up in a brewery. Plus ca change!

[Duffryn]

Be nice to relax in the knowledge that all Euro-built Jap cars are still built to the original Japanese spec quality standards, and that those didn't get diluted at all once Europeans got involved.

[Cyker]

I still remember when Toyota started manufacturing cars in France - They had so many problems despite supposedly being the same car, and general advice was to buy one that was made in Japan and not France for a fair while!

It wasn't until Toyota sent one of their bigwigs from Japan to give them all a good <the spuds of lurrrrvve>ing that they started doing things properly

What ever they did has worked wonders tho' - The French-built ones are now at the sort of standard you'd expect from Toyota so well done to them :)

I think the stereotypes are still vaguely valid - The reason the Aygo is great is because the French did the styling and the !Removed! did the mechanicals. I shudder to think what it'd have been like if it was the other way around (We kinda got a taste of that with the diesel Aygo, which was absolutely terrible - If that had been a Toyota D4D instead of the PSA lump that car would be outselling the 1.0!)

What was it they say about the ideal car? Something like body designed by the French, mechanicals by the germans, electrics by the japanese, dynamics by the italians?

[Grumpy Cabbie]

A Prius (when the engine is actually running) emits about 20 times less NOx (think acid rain, smog, problems for asthmatics) than a brand new super 'clean' diesel. Compare it to a 3 year old diesel and the figure jumps to about 200 times less.

Next time your eyes are burning in London or your child/grandchild has an asthma attack and ends up in hospital, think of that!!

[Cyker]

Sadly that's one of the biggest downsides of diesel; The high compression ratios mean it is almost impossible to prevent molecules being ripped to shreds and reformed into undesirable things. It's possible to catalyse that away, but the research into that is ongoing and expensive, requiring fairly exotic materials. Given time and money, we could fix these things but it's a steep uphill battle and there just isn't much incentive for it. It's a shame too as that research would go a long way to helping lower emissions of the big hauler diesels which no other tech will come close to replacing any time soon.

EGR is a quick and (literally) dirty fix, but while it lowers NOx significantly, it makes everything else worse. Is it worth the tradeoff? I personally don't think so (And again, why petrol engines have them when they don't have such high NOx formation still makes no sense to me! You get all the downside and none of the upsides!)

Emissions is one of the biggest strong points of the HSD and why I feel they are especially suited for dense urban environments.

The Yaris HSD was a long time in coming but makes the most sense by far; I always thought the Prius too big for a city car but the Yaris, even with the increased chubbiness of the Mk3, is a much better fit and blows everything out of the water despite having a lower Battery capacity.

On a slight tangent, what happened to the hybrid black cabs (Or was it fuel cell?) they were touting a few years back? Did that ever make it off the ground?

[RunningInPleasePass]

Found this item about a LPG Hybrid from Toyota, sounds like a good idea to me, and I can't think why it's not become more popular.

http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/toyota-taxi-tokyo-motor-show-2013-11-20

[Cyker]

They probably priced themselves out of the market. Low running costs is fine, but when the initial cost is so much higher that it takes years to recoup, it tends to put people off.

That said, there are a lot of really cool and innovative concept cars that have appeared and then everyone's like "OMG That is so ossom where do I buy one?!" and then you never hear of it again. :(