My 2001 Rav4 Auto 2.0 Nrg Still Not Sorted.

[chubbles]

Has any club member ever had a replacement automatic gearbox done cheaply - is there such a thing as service exchange? As of this moment I can't use use my car, I am at a loss as to what to do for the best. Do I sell the car for scrap, even though its too good to scrap! I had the ECU checked, nothing wrong with it. I have no top gear. The car has 125,000 miles under its belt, and performs very,very well. Money - or lack of it - is my problem at the minute, being near 75 money gets harder and harder to come by - as is the case for most people in this present clime. Incidently the problem I had with the loss of central locking has gone, seems to have cured itself!, is the ECU relearning itself - would I misteriously get the loss of top gear to return if I chanced my arm and drove it a few miles?

[firemac]

Has any club member ever had a replacement automatic gearbox done cheaply - is there such a thing as service exchange? As of this moment I can't use use my car, I am at a loss as to what to do for the best. Do I sell the car for scrap, even though its too good to scrap! I had the ECU checked, nothing wrong with it. I have no top gear. The car has 125,000 miles under its belt, and performs very,very well. Money - or lack of it - is my problem at the minute, being near 75 money gets harder and harder to come by - as is the case for most people in this present clime. Incidently the problem I had with the loss of central locking has gone, seems to have cured itself!, is the ECU relearning itself - would I misteriously get the loss of top gear to return if I chanced my arm and drove it a few miles?

Hi George,

Your last point is interesting and may not be far off the mark.

It does depend upon who has given the ECU the OK. The forum is aware of two companies that have proven track records in diagnosing/repairing RAV ECU's, one in Derbyshire (ECU Testing) & one in the US (Check Engine in NY). If one of those have been used then you can be pretty certain that their OK is valid. If not then it might be worth getting them to check it out.

When I had our ECU repaired by ECU Testing, they returned it with very precise instructions about how to re-commission it, as it were. After re-fitting it, It was necessary to let the car warm up fully to normal operating temp before putting it into gear. Then it had to be driven for not less that 20 minutes on a route that included stops & starts and allowed the box to be well-exercised. This was so that the ECU could re-learn basic parameters - apparently the software uses "fuzzy logic" which means that it becomes accustomed to your driving style and sets itself up to suit over time.

Nevertheless, if the ECU has not had the opportunity to re-set itself in this way then it's not beyond the realms of possibility that it is still operating in accordance with the previous flawed prameters, i.e not changing up to top. It might be an idea to unplug all the connections from the ECU, leave it for a couple of hours, put all the plugs back and then go through the warm-up and driving routine described above. I would say right now that I am not a mechanic (nor, more to the point, a software expert) so I am readily open to correction by any members who have better knowledge than me.

[Davrav]

Maybe not a mechanic or software expert but nothing 'fuzzy' about your advice Jim

[chubbles]

Hi David,

Thanks for reading my post, I most certainly will do as you suggest, remove all connectors on the ECU leave for at least 2 hours, reconnect, warm the engine then take the car for a run. I had Heanor of Derby check the ECU, they found nothing wrong with the ECU, it has been suggested that a change of transmission fluid might help as the car has done over 125,000 miles and the fluid might be original. Odd though, that the loss of top gear should happen so sudden. I am somewhat reluctant to travel too far in case I do more damage to the gearbox. I'll try anything once!

[firemac]

Hi David,

Thanks for reading my post, I most certainly will do as you suggest, remove all connectors on the ECU leave for at least 2 hours, reconnect, warm the engine then take the car for a run. I had Heanor of Derby check the ECU, they found nothing wrong with the ECU, it has been suggested that a change of transmission fluid might help as the car has done over 125,000 miles and the fluid might be original. Odd though, that the loss of top gear should happen so sudden. I am somewhat reluctant to travel too far in case I do more damage to the gearbox. I'll try anything once!

Hi George,

Apparently it's important that the car is well up to operating temp with box in Park before you engage Drive. Then the box needs to be exercised through all speeds, stops/starts, etc during the initial drive. A route that takes in town & some open road would be ideal.

If the box isn't changing gear violently, slipping gears or making banging noises then ECUT's diagnosis is obviously correct, i.e. the ECU is OK. Also, if it isn't demonstrating those potentially expensive characteristics then you are unlikely to cause any further damage.

I hope it works out - give us your feedback on the test drive. Good luck.

[chubbles]

I will do as you suggest next week sometime - when it aint raining! That is/was the annoying thing - the box never gave any cause for concern, no noises,no bumps/thumps, always changing sweetly, then suddenly loss of top gear, its as if it was tying to kickdown, but revving its wassernames off. I'll let you ASAP the results, if any!

[firemac]

I will do as you suggest next week sometime - when it aint raining! That is/was the annoying thing - the box never gave any cause for concern, no noises,no bumps/thumps, always changing sweetly, then suddenly loss of top gear, its as if it was tying to kickdown, but revving its wassernames off. I'll let you ASAP the results, if any!

It does sound odd particularly as the RAV box is usually very reliable (ECU issue notwithstanding) with no known issues. Has anything else strange occurred at the same time as you lost top gear? Have you done or had any work done or any servicing on the car around the same time? I'm thinking that maybe there is an electrical gremlin somewhere that is affecting the selector mechanism or system.

As I said earlier, I am no mechanic so I could be talking complete b0ll0cks, but I am a great believer in Sod's Law as well as the Law of Unintended Consequences. I've done lots of home-mechanicing over the years and I've lost count of the number of times I've spent lots of time & money trying to fix a problem only to find that it was the result of something else that I, or the garage, had done to an apparently unrelated area of the car. The only upside of these experiences is that I have developed the ability to kick myself smartly in the @ss!

[chubbles]

The only work I had carried out was getting 2 new tyres fitted on the front, strangely enough, te car went TO the tyre fitters okay, it was on the return journey home that my problem showed up - its got me thinking that you may be right with your 'Law of unintended consequences' - who knows! maybe the fitter did something unintentionally. I'll mull THAT one over. Cheers

[firemac]

The only work I had carried out was getting 2 new tyres fitted on the front, strangely enough, te car went TO the tyre fitters okay, it was on the return journey home that my problem showed up - its got me thinking that you may be right with your 'Law of unintended consequences' - who knows! maybe the fitter did something unintentionally. I'll mull THAT one over. Cheers

By all means do the ECU re-set when you can. From what you say, a good look around under the engine/box area might show up some damage. There are only a couple of places under the car where it is safe to place a jack; it could be possible that damage was accidentally caused.

If the re-set doesn't work then a trip to a reliable indie or a good Toyota main dealer for a look around underneath might be an hour well-spent.

Good luck.

[Big Kev]

Prameters, Jamesy.....is that consumers of prams.....? Stonkful input......

George.....AT YOUR SUPERB AGE, YOU CAN DO WITHOOT THIS HASSLE......absolute besta luck with this, mate.

[chubbles]

On reflection, prior to the new tyres I had fitted the Rav was running as per normal, it was on the return journey home that I 'lost' top gear. Maybe I will pay a visit to my 'not so local' Tpyota dealer, see what they say or can do. Thanks all for your inspiration.

[firemac]

On reflection, prior to the new tyres I had fitted the Rav was running as per normal, it was on the return journey home that I 'lost' top gear. Maybe I will pay a visit to my 'not so local' Tpyota dealer, see what they say or can do. Thanks all for your inspiration.

Hi George,

I would suggest that you try the re-set first. Then, if top gear is still AWOL, seek the assistance of Mr.T's finest to check for any G/box damage.

You need to be aware that Mr.T does not recognise that the ECU can be re-flashed by people like ECUT. Instead, where the notorious ECU problem arises, Mr.T's standard reply is one of:

1. "You need a new gearbox, Sir. That will be circa £3K, thanks very much."
2. Ditto plus, "Oh, and you might need a new ECU so that will be a further £1K, plus VAT of course"
3. "Your ATF looks a bit dark. Needs changing, Sir. £145 + VAT, please"
4. If you go for 3 and still have the problem then go to 1 & start over......................

In other words they don't recognise that there is a design fault with the ECU despite the fact that Toyota US have extended the manufacturers' warranty on these RAV's (to 10 years I believe) to cover the ECU problem. I can only assume that all of Mr.T's UK employees are obliged to follow this rather blind script on pain of dismissal or something equally painful. It is all the more puzzling when you consider their very laudable decision to give an extended goodwill warranty for the 2AD engine problem.

I realise that your ECU has been given the OK by ECUT so the ECU shouldn't be an issue but I mention the Toyota attitude only because they probably won't "understand" that the ECU is in fact not the problem and therefore may give you the run-around by following items 1 to 4 above. Hence my suggestion of re-setting the ECU as a first priority before you get into Mr.T's bear-pit.

[chubbles]

What I will do (once it stops raining!) is do a ECU re-set, then take it to MrT for their perusal - unless the fault mysteriously cures itself. It was a Mr T tecky that suggested that a transmission fluid change might do the trick as one (or more) of the internal passages "might" be blocked, its worth a try I suppose.