Why Do You Need "experience" Or "age The Car" To Impro

[the phoenix firebird]

Hi Hope you can help. Thinking of buying a toyota hybrid.

Why is it that users talk of improving the MPG by experience or ageing the car??? I understand that most of you think its MPG improves with city driving rather than motorway long journeys. I reguklarly have to drive 700 mile round trips up and down the country. I thought a hybrid would be perfect. Why is it not so good on long journeys.

Best to y'all.

[Madasafish]

The hybrid on long runs is running almost 100% on petrol so there are no gains to be had. In short journeys and around town, it recycles energy from the car to the Battery when braking and uses it again when accelerating so it is much more efficient.

Lots of long jounryes and no short ones? A diesel will be more efficient.

The secret to driving a hybrid to get maximum economy is to minimise acceleration after reaching a cruising speed: there is an art to it learned from experience. Called "pulse and glide" iirc.. http://www.greenhybrid.com/discuss/f26/pulse-glide-24080/

[Dougie150]

I thought Hybrids were most efficient at 80+mph, as that's what speed I see most of them fly past me at on the motorway!

[Cyker]

The HSD needs a slightly different driving style for best efficiency, just as diesel engines need a slightly different driving style for better efficiency.

Pulse and glide is easy to talk about but it does take some practice to get good at it!

Not sure about the aging thing; I assume that's just the same issue that all new cars have, i.e. that they need to wear in before they get up to max efficiency. Usually a few thousand miles or so, although it's winter so mpg will probably get worse before it gets better! :(

[chrisn7]

Don't forget that on long trips you are lugging the Battery and electric motor and control systems with you, which will reduce the mpg, relative to simllar vehicle without

[Red Yaris 54]

Moved to Hybrid section :)

[johalareewi]

Moved to Hybrid section :)

Where we will bust the myth that hybrids are no good at long journeys (again).

The hybrid on long runs is running almost 100% on petrol so there are no gains to be had.

Technically correct but the hybrid has an Atkinson cycle petrol engine which can get many more mpgs than a conventional engine. Also, the petrol engine is only burning fuel when it needs to. On a long run, you spend a lot of time "coasting" or ticking over on the electric motor and not using any fuel at all.

In short journeys and around town, it recycles energy from the car to the battery when braking and uses it again when accelerating so it is much more efficient.

Again technically correct but the hybrid does this all the time, even on long runs.

Plus, the HSD (Hybrid Synergy Drive) produces surplus electricity which is stored in the HV Battery until needed.

The net result is that hybrids can get great mpgs on long runs as well as round town.

The secret to driving a hybrid to get maximum economy is to minimise acceleration after reaching a cruising speed:

This is true for all vehicles, not just hybrids.

It just seems easier to do in a Toyota hybrid.

[Parts-King]

This subject has been "done to death" please use the search facility, here is one of the threads

http://www.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/topic/151265-motorway-driving/?hl=%2Bhybrid+%2Bmotorway

It is a nonsense to suggest Hybrids are no good on Motorways, most owners have had their best MPG's ever on Motorway journeys

Next question up will be "what oil do I use" or "what does the B button do" bet ya bet ya, it will honest :D: :D:

Kingo

[kithmo]

I thought Hybrids were most efficient at 80+mph, as that's what speed I see most of them fly past me at on the motorway!

Motorway, in Lincolnshire ???

Those going at 80 mph are on their "pulse" part of their pulse and glide

or delivery drivers delivering a customers car.

[PeteB]

Don't forget that on long trips you are lugging the battery and electric motor and control systems with you, which will reduce the mpg, relative to simllar vehicle without

OK you are, but you're missing the weight of a gearbox, clutch (or torque converter) and associated bits and fluids.

The Prius also regularly stops using the ICE for brief periods when the HSD is under light load even at 70-80, it just doesn't light up the EV lamp - the EV lamp lights up only below about 45 mph, when the ICE completely stops when not required - above that speed, when not needed, it still spins but with minimal compression and no fuel or spark - this is to keep MG2 within a prescribed rev range (that's why if you look out for it, you'll feel a very slight tremor as you pass 45 mph when slowing without braking from higher speeds as the ICE stops). Not sure how they get around this in the plug-in - anyone know?

It's also fair to say the Prius engine is relatively under powered on its own for the size of the car, which isn't an issue because it can get instant help from the electric motors when needed. In the original Japan only Mk1 (known as NHW10) the ICE was limited to just 4000 rpm, and this crept up to 4500 for the Mk1.1 (aka NHW11) sold worldwide and 5000 for the Mk2 (NHW20) - not sure what it is for the Gen 3, but probably less than most petrol engines. Again this works because of the electric motor assistance readily available.

By the way, on another tack, have you noticed how, when the ICE enters it's warm-up mode, if you don't use too much throttle the ICE seems divorced from the system while the Battery drives the car, even when it's lower than would normally allow EV running? I understand during this mode the spark timing is heavily advanced (or is it retarded?) to generate a lot of heat, but provides little toque, which is why it's not asked to drive the car. Demanding heavy acceleration snaps it out of this mode, but hurts mpg. It still fascinates me after 11 years of Hybrid driving.

Regards, PeteB

[Dougie150]

Alright Kithmo, keep your flatcap on! :D

Unfortunately I work in Hampshire so spend many miles on motorways to get down south. Maybe its just a southerner style of driving?

But more seriously, if drivers pulsed to just 70mph, surely they could be even greater eco-warriors? I do realise not all Hybrid drivers drive like this. It just bugs me the ones that do. Why pretend to be environmentally friendly just because you drive a Prius?

[timberwolf]

Alright Kithmo, keep your flatcap on! :D

Unfortunately I work in Hampshire so spend many miles on motorways to get down south. Maybe its just a southerner style of driving?

But more seriously, if drivers pulsed to just 70mph, surely they could be even greater eco-warriors? I do realise not all Hybrid drivers drive like this. It just bugs me the ones that do. Why pretend to be environmentally friendly just because you drive a Prius?

Dougie150, your final sentence is probably one of biggest myths and prejudices against Hybrids of them all. I would guess that very few people buy a Prius for their supposed environmental credentials (and they are still petrol powered so how friendly can they be?).

Probably the majority of Prius are fleet owned company cars, the people driving them as a group primarily choose for tax reasons, and they as a group are the ones most likely to thrash their cars at 80+ getting maybe 45 mpg (if that).

As a private buyer, I picked an older generation model, because many years ago I started driving Automatics and I have no desire to ever switch back to manual. The Hybrid offered petrol, it was quiet, and it had the most interesting technology that I could afford. The mpg wasn't a prime consideration, as anything above 35 mpg and I'd be happy. Tree-hugging was not even a consideration. ;)

[johalareewi]

Alright Kithmo, keep your flatcap on! :D

...

Why pretend to be environmentally friendly just because you drive a Prius?

Time to close the thread methinks.

[PeteB]

Alright Kithmo, keep your flatcap on! :D... Why pretend to be environmentally friendly just because you drive a Prius?

Time to close the thread methinks.

Well, each to their own, I suppose.

It was certainly a major consideration when I bought my first one. Sure, it burns fuel, it used resources to manufacture and supply, but having looked into many of the myths, smoke and mirrors, I'm pursuaded that on balance it's less of a sinner than most viable alternatives.

For all 3 of my Prius I've maintained a database log of every event, cost and issue. Particularly with my last one, which had 163,000 miles on the clock when I sold it at 9 years old (and the current owner still uses it regularly) and, after adjusting for inflation, it been the cheapest car to own I've ever had, and used fewest resources. My brakes lasted to almost 100,000 miles before needing any new pads or discs, it was only on its second set of replacement spark plugs (and probably still is over years later). No gearbox, clutch or torque converter, so more replacement, linings, oils and fluids not used at services. Original HV Battery still fine. 12v Battery was 9 years old when I sold the car, but may have been replaced by now.

I'm certainly persuaded.

Regards, PeteB

[barrycoll]

to PeteB and Alan, I must say that I appreciate you sharing your experiences....its nice to come away from this site, understanding this Prius marvel of modern engineering just a liitle more

as for pretending to be environmentally friendly, well that is a tricky one, as even at delivery-driver speeds the Prius is probably cleaner than a similar diesel (diseasel?? Passat

does carrying 2 electric bikes on a Prius qualify me for environmental friendliness??

[PeteB]

to PeteB and Alan, I must say that I appreciate you sharing your experiences....its nice to come away from this site, understanding this Prius marvel of modern engineering just a liitle more

as for pretending to be environmentally friendly, well that is a tricky one, as even at delivery-driver speeds the Prius is probably cleaner than a similar diesel (diseasel?? Passat

does carrying 2 electric bikes on a Prius qualify me for environmental friendliness??

1-DSC01799.JPG

I still find it amazing that this technology is now 16 years old. If there were no Hybrids, and Toyota launched the Mk1 Prius today, I'd still be blown away by it - especially as it had old-fashioned virtues like sensible wheels, full size spare, 2 rear fog lights and two reversing lights...

Apparently authorities in many big cities around the world are waking up that just concentrating on CO2 emissions which has led to many more people buying diesels had created a new problem - they are still much worse at producing NOx emissions and several cities will have to do something about it because levels are getting much worse and becoming a serious health risk - they just don't know how to deal with this one.

yep, Prius + electric bikes going in right direction - have one myself, just wish I had more time to ride it.

Regards, PeteB

[Parts-King]

I just like the technology, I'm no real environmentalist, and I like the MPG, I also like to eek the best MPG out of the car too, I seem to get a weird kick out of that

Kingo

[Prev1a d4d]

I found my Hybrid estima excellent on motorways sticking to speed limits I would return up to 45 mph,

my last journey was a 150 mile round trip loaded one way and returned 42 mph

[sanzomat]

I know its been done to death but as a relatively new hybrid driver I'm still impressed by the motorway MPG as I just wasn't expecting it to be so good. Based on the same misconceptions as many people I also assumed that there would be no benefit at constant motorway speeds but my 'plus is by far the most economical motorway cruiser I've owned and I've had all sorts of diesels for the last ten years. I can honestly say that even at a steady 80 my 'plus is doing about 10% better mpg than the best of the diesels I've owned. Coupled with around 30-40% better mpg around town and on A/B roads I'm averaging a 25% improvement over the best diesels over my whole mileage so far.

[Dougie150]

Being dragged over to the Hybrid forum has made for some interesting reading for me (this thread started in the yaris forum where my first post was made). I hope Keith hasn't taken offence to my generalisation about yorkshiremen, like I didn't take offence to the insinuation that I can't drive on a motorway because I live in Lincolnshire.

Alright Kithmo, keep your flatcap on! :D
...
Why pretend to be environmentally friendly just because you drive a Prius?

Time to close the thread methinks.

I was going to suggest that Alan might be a journalist, quoting two parts of my post which together do look bad, but again, that would be stereotyping.

With regards to Kingo, I don't see it as weird trying to get the best mpg possible out of a car. I regularly do the same with my diesel yaris, though I'm probably not as impressed with mine as you are with yours.

[kithmo]

Being dragged over to the Hybrid forum has made for some interesting reading for me (this thread started in the yaris forum where my first post was made). I hope Keith hasn't taken offence to my generalisation about yorkshiremen, like I didn't take offence to the insinuation that I can't drive on a motorway because I live in Lincolnshire.

Alright Kithmo, keep your flatcap on! :D

...

Why pretend to be environmentally friendly just because you drive a Prius?

Time to close the thread methinks.

That's what smileys are for, it was all tongue in cheek, no offence whatsoever taken and none meant :D

[johalareewi]

I thought Hybrids were most efficient at 80+mph, as that's what speed I see most of them fly past me at on the motorway!

In the interests of science, I took my gen3 for a trip up the M3 at 80+ and the mpg was 53 (from a cold start too).

[PeteB]

I thought Hybrids were most efficient at 80+mph, as that's what speed I see most of them fly past me at on the motorway!

In the interests of science, I took my gen3 for a trip up the M3 at 80+ and the mpg was 53 (from a cold start too).

About twice a month I take my Gen 3 T3 on a 300 mile+ day trip. On the dual carriageways I set the cruise control to 60-65 (as shown on the speedo) and generally stick to the limit on slower roads. Unless its very hot or cold, I generally get 70-75 mpg indictaded on the trip computer at the end of the day.

All my very short cold start journeys then kill the average by the time I have to,fill up again although I still get mid 60s most of the time. I've also noticed if I do,a longer local journey, mostly at 30 or less, after half an hour or so thnedailymaveragecsn reach low 70s.

Rgeards PeteB