Not A Rav Problem But Help Please ?

[CharlieFarlie]

Posted this on a relevant but quiet forum but hope you mechanical guys can help ?

Daughters car is showing the MIL light on the dash and the garage that fitted the new thermostat last week has told daughter that is a CO2/oxygen (Are they the same ??) Sensor and it will be fine until the MOT is due in a couple of months...

Car is now getting a bit reluctant to start but once started its just fine.... Ford tell us there are two sensors one upstream and one down which I understand is just where they are in the exhaust,,

So is this sensor likely to cause the problematic starting ?

Where are they and how easy are they to get at ?

Looking on the net I can only find a generic how to which gives no indication of where the sensors are and therefore giving me no indication is this is a simple enough DIY prospect.

Garage wants £120 + VAT so near 150 quid to supply and fit the required sensor but we can buy either of the two for around 50 quid. Garage says its 1.5 hours work to do the swap... Sensor from Euro car parts is 45 quid. Mmmm

I have decent code reader and can switch off the light easy enough...

Thanks in advance !

Charlie.

[GreyRacer]

I don't know where on your Ford the sensors are located but generally they are in a housing either side of the cat. Did both of mine recently on the Celica and took about 20 mins up on a lift. I did not have starting problems but was heavily over fueling and down on power.

[anchorman]

The ones I have come across are in the manifold and then in the exhaust just about under the gear stick level. They are sometimes called (referred to) as oxygen sensors or CO2 or lambda sensors. They compare the oxygen inside the exhaust with that outside and are positioned before and after the cat. With the info, the ECU can make changes to the air/fuel mixture.

If they play up they usually leave a trace on the ECU and can be read with a cheap OBD reader. That way you can see which one it is. I would imagine that they are available from the likes of Halfords or motor factors for most fords.

[CharlieFarlie]

Thanks David and Don !

Don would this defective sensor cause the bad starting ? It shudders ( Daughters description) once it fires up.. Car is quite some distance from here so I haven't had the benefit of seeing it or going though the start up procedure ... Or reading the codes.

[gjnorthall]

A faulty Lambda wouldn't affect starting. On the smaller Fords (Fiesta, Focus, Ka etc) the pre-cat sensor points vertically upwards from the centre of the manifold - the post- cat unit is on the base of the cat pot which is underneath the manifold. Use Lambdas which have the correct connector rather than universal units where the wires need to be joined. Lambdas can be incredibly tight so use a proper 21mm Lambda socket and don't use silicon based freeing fluids - the slightest trace of silicon is sufficient to kill the sensor element on the new unit.

[crofter]

After all the damp weather could it be damp HT leads or is it an oiler? They would of course dry out when started.Is it on that side of things

WD40?

Del

[anchorman]

Normally not but if the spark plugs are at the end of their life or the air filter is getting clogged you could get in a situation where the mixture gets so rich it would flood or choke it.

It is worth checking the plugs and air filter then see about the sensor. Did you get a code reader or is somebody near enough to read it for you?

[CharlieFarlie]

Reading around the net it does seem that ginorthall is on the right tracks in saying the sensor would not affect the start procedure but I take on board your comments Don on it could if the plugs and/or Filters are bad......

We bought this car after daughters old car was written off a few months ago.. There really is no point in buying her an expensive car cos low life scum in the middle of Birmingham where she works keep breaking into cars and she has had her cars broken onto 3 times in 18 months despite leaving the glove box open and nothing in the car..... It is an old 2004 1.4 petrol and it is a pain in the backside...

I feel a but guilty cos I haven't touched the car other than changing the oil and checking it and the tyres when she is over.. Time is just so blooming short these days....

Don I have a code reader and will get over to read the codes as soon as I can.

I must get it into a decent garage and get the !Removed! thing sorted...

Thanks Guys !

[anchorman]

I wish he'd try sleeping tablets or cocoa or something. The phantom mover has been up in the night again.

[Red Yaris 54]

I wish he'd try sleeping tablets or cocoa or something. The phantom mover has been up in the night again.

Maybe the topic title gave the game away? :)

[Raistlin]

It could be the ECU getting false engine readings, so it is not regulating the power properly (if that makes sense) damp is a cause of this too, damp in the wiring.

A good long run on the motorway and some wd40 on the wiring area may help.

Also unplug the Battery on the car for 10 mins, it will reset the ECU

[Big Kev]

Aye......let's move it to the section where people are more than willing to help each other........naw.....wait.......it's already there......

[Big Kev]

Never been an advocate of WD40 on wiring......it just gives crud an easier home to cling to, and results in shorts that may not have been there in first place. Dry and clean better IMHO.

[crofter]

Quite right Kev,I was suggesting it as a possible easy quick temporary fix for the sufferer and it would also show if the leads were in fact the problem

Del

[Big Kev]

Never saw yer post there, Del min......was in reply to Oor Raistlin there........good to see yer still alive dodging arrows and Sheriff still not found ye in the trees with yer miniature condoms (Little Johnnies......it's a Notts. joke............)

[crofter]

Thats OK Kev,getting used to it from some quarters (or should I say quarter staff)??

How did you know where I USED to do certain shopping

Del of Robin Hood's Well

[CharlieFarlie]

Got to read the codes today and it indicated a misfire on cylinder 1 and bank sensor 1 which I believe is the first one in line and the one on the manifold...

Tried to change the plugs and the one on cylinder 1 will not come out.. It very reluctantly turned a couple of turns then went very tight and would not undo any more.. Tried 3 or 4 times and it just will not move past two turns,,,, Bugger.......

So its looking like quite a big job as I'm thinking that the head will have to come off ? Or is it possible to remove the plug in some other way ?

I looked up Extract engineering that removed the broken glow plug from Paul's car recently but they don't do spark plugs only glow plug removal ?

Any advice would be welcome !! Cheers...

[gjnorthall]

These plugs have a long thread length and if left in place for an eternity - carbon and other deposits form on the exposed thread and this locks against the thread in the head when you try to remove the plug. If you can get a couple of turns on the plug, immerse the base in Plus Gas overnight. Thereafter work the plug backwards and forwards with some force. Use something like a breaker bar with a plug socket - a tee-bar plug socket or ratchet wrench will be next to useless. Obviously some care is required but it takes considerable torque to fracture a plug. Don't attempt to get the plug out in one go by using force - the idea is to work the plug out very gradually by moving the plug backwards and forwards until the deposits are broken off. This might damage a couple of the bottom threads in the head, but not a problem given the overall thread length. Garages sometimes use an impact wrench, with care, to work the plug backwards and forwards.

[bothwell_buyer]

Its much easier to arrange to park it ootside big kevs house. The car will be gone in the morning, wi just the alloy wheels left an the tyres as its too much hassle tae get the rubber aff. nae need tae provide bricks as he sells them hiself.

Torched but no forgot !