New Rav4 Invincible Vs T180

[blue monster]

Greetings all, I hope everyone is well?

As my wife is still racking up huge mileage we are looking to change the T180 at some point over the next few months for something with way less miles than ours has which is a pity as the car runs like clockwork and has been faultless since the new engine which now has around 45k on it!!

After having the comfort & safety of 4x4's for the last 4 years and 4 ***** winters we would have been stuck high & dry if it had not been for having the T180 and an X-Trail prior to that so I am drawn towards another 4x4 namely the new shape RAV4 in Invincible guise which appears to be on par with the spec of the T180 and I like the idea of the 5 year warranty (unlikely to buy brand new but will still have the balance of the warranty).

So, a few questions in the real world, ignoring the official blurb so to speak:

What MPG are people actually getting - are you really getting 49.6 combined as Mr T is claiming?

I am assuming that these are all new engines and not a carry over from the facelift 4.3?

Can these new engines be chipped and if so does anyone know the figures?

Are there any known issues, problems, etc, that people have encountered with this new model?

Am I reading the Mr T info correctly - still no spare wheel???

Anything else that I should be aware of?

Cheers!!

[CharlieFarlie]

Hi Martin. !!! Mate they are a carry over of the 2AD lump we know so well.

Like yourself I'm looking to swap to a newer car and am now coming round to the new shape in invincible spec ... But it has to be accepted that when they say. : The all new Rav 4: there is a margin of exaggeration ..

I like that the new car is bigger and I like that it is better on fuel but I'm not a hundred percent convinced on the shape of the car nor the dash board...

Hope your well matey. !!!

[silly sausage]

My Thoughts. …...49.6 mpg will be realistic with a manual variant, my last 150 engine 4.3 gave me comfortable 46+ combined mpg (in the summer months) and we live among some very steep hills in the Pennines so this was certainly mixed running. Should mention it took 10k miles or so 'loosen up' and fuel economy to settle at this figure.

The 4.4 engine is basically the same engine as the 4.3, there are some weight saving modifications with 'plastic' cam covers and oil filter housings etc, the ecu mapping is also likely to be different.

I know of no reason why a Lindop chip could not be fitted if required with approx 30bhp and 60NM of torque increases. I have a four week old Invincible, it's fabulous, it's a Toyota !

[blue monster]

Hi Martin. !!! Mate they are a carry over of the 2AD lump we know so well.

Like yourself I'm looking to swap to a newer car and am now coming round to the new shape in invincible spec ... But it has to be accepted that when they say. : The all new Rav 4: there is a margin of exaggeration ..

I like that the new car is bigger and I like that it is better on fuel but I'm not a hundred percent convinced on the shape of the car nor the dash board...

Hope your well matey. !!!

Hi Charlie, I am good thanks mate, I hope you are well?

Hmm, that's interesting, I didn't realise that the engine was still the 2AD and assumed that Toyota would have replaced it but am now glad that I asked the question!!

I'm still not 100% on the shape but I do like the interior and gadgets like the fact that it has DAB radio.

I must admit being a Honda freak I do like the look of the new shape CRV too and in Exec spec it is an equivalent of the T180.

Probably need to go and drive both and take it from there.

[silly sausage]

Martin, Insist on an extended test drive where you can take in some decent 'A' roads and experience the Sport mode, the 4.4 is a brilliant drive.

[GreyRacer]

I've never driven a RAV4 T180 but have owned four RAVs. I have the new 4.4 Invincible and really love driving it. I'm an enthusiastic driver and over the hills in sport mode she pulls well. The usual under steer at speed is lessened and she grips well. Much quieter and more refined than the 4.3. 40 mpg with mixed driving is easily achievable. The extra room is great leather sports seats are comfy and supportive.

[philip42h]

I can only comment on an SR180 manual and an Icon Automatic ...

The SR180 was absolutely faultless for 57,000 miles. It provided the quick, direct and engaging drive that you are used to in the T180 (I assume :)) and return 37.5 mpg overall.

The 4.4 is a more refined, relaxed and 'grow-up' drive and, to my mind, is very well suited to the 'nottymatic' gearbox. Performance is more than adequate - it certainly doesn't feel slow or under powered - but to my mind it neither feels, nor is on paper, as quick as the 180. Sport mode compensates very well but if you wanted the 'fastest truck' on the road this isn't it - it's a reasonably refined, 4 wheel drive estate car. To date (~1,500 miles) I'm getting 39.5 mpg - so I've now got a more refined, equally road capable, slightly more economical and more practical car than the SR180.

It is the same D4D / D-CAT 150 engine and gearbox as proven on the 4.3.5 run-out 4.4 test-bed model. ;) Lindop have been offering a chip kit for this engine for some time. I haven't tried it [yet] but the quoted figures are +20% torque; + 20% power I believe.

Mine came with a space saver spare wheel that I wasn't expecting. It appears to be a game of spare wheel roulette ATM but the spare certainly exists so you could reasonably insist on one as part of the deal if that is what you wanted.

No issues as such:

• Like all vehicles homologated since 2012 it comes with TPMS which is a bit of a pain when it comes to fitting winter wheels - see several threads on this topic.
• I'm yet to be convinced about the satnav unit (compared to its predecessor as fitted to the SR180). The world of Touch [& Go] etc. seems to be a bit of a muddle in respect of the features that actually appear on the version in your car, the means of obtaining and availability of updates, and the actual guidance given as you go along your route. I need to get used to what I now have, but I'll probably start another thread on that at some point.

My head tells me that I have made entirely the right decision in upgrading - the 4.4 [icon] is a much better car than the SR180 - my heart is still having occasional pangs.

[anchorman]

Toyota classify their engines by a series of letter codes and 2AD only puts the engine in the same series - a 2.2 D4D. It does not necessarilly make it the same engine. So what is the same?

Crankshaft

Cam shafts

Connnecting rods

What has changed?

Cylinder block

Cylinder head

Pistons and rings

Balance shafts

Injectors

Fuel pump and fuel rail

EGR and exhaust cooler

Mass airflow meter.

Cylinder head gasket

Front and rear crank oil seals

Timing cover and sump sealing method.

Alternator (150 amp instead of 130 amp)

They have really made the new parts fit some of the old, so the new block uses the same inert sump castings etc and it has the same dimensional footprint allowing the mountings and transmissions to marry up. To call it the same engine carried over is not strictly correct. The 2AD engines we have in the RAVs have a second series of letters. Those with the D-CAT engines are suffixed FHV and those without are the FTV. The auto box and the D-CAT always go together as the additional emmissions generated by the auto box are subdued by the D-CAT system. That was the bit that could clog up in the early engines IF it was one that used oil. The later 150 engines use little or no oil and they have a much modified D-CAT and fuel injection systems so provide a "belt and braces" approach. It is apparent that Toyota did not want any risk of the early 2AD engines.

So the last letters in the engine type are 2AD;

F - Narrow angle double overhead cams for economy

H - High pressure turbocharged

V - Common rail diesel

This 2AD-FHV engine is the D-CAT series in the new auto models. It would be the same code (2AD-FHV) in the old T/SR180 series only because it shares the same design features albeit the engine itself is fundamentally different as listed further up. The manual gearbox versions are coded 2AD - FTV where;

F - Narrow angle double overhead cams for economy

T - Turbocharged

V - Common rail diesel

Another thing worth remembering for potential 150 buyers is that from 2009 up to the last facelift of the 4.3 is that they had no particulate filter (DNPR) on the manuals and those from the face lift to run out do. The use of the DNPR does not make it a D-CAT engine unless it uses the 5th injector in the cylinder head. The purpose of the 5th injector is to spray fuel into the exhaust which is used to self purge the particulate filter when 1. the engine is hot and 2. the engine is under load. This purge will only ever take place when the filter is recognised as being blocked. It does put some fuel into the exhaust under normal driving conditions just to keep the DNPR temperature high. If claims about the 4.4 autos are true then it would seem that it has been knocked back to aid economy.

[Big Kev]

Ah knew that......

[Parts-King]

The good news is YES it can be chipped, my DP has a manual version and would not have a RAV without it being chipped now, plus 25% torque which is fantastic

Spare wheels are still a lottery, the wheels can be ordered no problem, its getting hold of the spacesaver tyre that is the issue, but we have had several come through recently though

Kingo

[crustyclam]

Toyota classify their engines by a series of letter codes and 2AD only puts the engine in the same series - a 2.2 D4D. It does not necessarilly make it the same engine. So what is the same?

Crankshaft

Cam shafts

Connnecting rods

What has changed?

Cylinder block

Cylinder head

Pistons and rings

Balance shafts

Injectors

Fuel pump and fuel rail

EGR and exhaust cooler

Mass airflow meter.

Cylinder head gasket

Front and rear crank oil seals

Timing cover and sump sealing method.

Alternator (150 amp instead of 130 amp)

They have really made the new parts fit some of the old, so the new block uses the same inert sump castings etc and it has the same dimensional footprint allowing the mountings and transmissions to marry up. To call it the same engine carried over is not strictly correct. The 2AD engines we have in the RAVs have a second series of letters. Those with the D-CAT engines are suffixed FHV and those without are the FTV. The auto box and the D-CAT always go together as the additional emmissions generated by the auto box are subdued by the D-CAT system. That was the bit that could clog up in the early engines IF it was one that used oil. The later 150 engines use little or no oil and they have a much modified D-CAT and fuel injection systems so provide a "belt and braces" approach. It is apparent that Toyota did not want any risk of the early 2AD engines.

So the last letters in the engine type are 2AD;

F - Narrow angle double overhead cams for economy

H - High pressure turbocharged

V - Common rail diesel

This 2AD-FHV engine is the D-CAT series in the new auto models. It would be the same code (2AD-FHV) in the old T/SR180 series only because it shares the same design features albeit the engine itself is fundamentally different as listed further up. The manual gearbox versions are coded 2AD - FTV where;

F - Narrow angle double overhead cams for economy

T - Turbocharged

V - Common rail diesel

Another thing worth remembering for potential 150 buyers is that from 2009 up to the last facelift of the 4.3 is that they had no particulate filter (DNPR) on the manuals and those from the face lift to run out do. The use of the DNPR does not make it a D-CAT engine unless it uses the 5th injector in the cylinder head. The purpose of the 5th injector is to spray fuel into the exhaust which is used to self purge the particulate filter when 1. the engine is hot and 2. the engine is under load. This purge will only ever take place when the filter is recognised as being blocked. It does put some fuel into the exhaust under normal driving conditions just to keep the DNPR temperature high. If claims about the 4.4 autos are true then it would seem that it has been knocked back to aid economy.

On the subject of the 5th injector disregarding fuel economy, i don't recall many threads regarding blocked DPF, so I assume the DPNR technology is in fact extremely efficient in its main purpose of burning of the excess ash. Glancing through other forums it seems that some vehicles are suffering high DPF failures.

My engine only runs at full temp for over half of my journey to work, don't get to have long run at high speeds. Only time the Rav has a good run is the odd weekend. Have only seen the odd time a blast of white smoke on some of my weekend trips.

Has it's bad points(fuel), but I wonder how it would have fared in another dpf diesel with my short journeys.

Saying all this I am touching wood, as not to tempt fate!

[crustyclam]

And when I said ash I meant soot.

[anchorman]

Some early (2006 ish) T180s did block the DNPR if they used excessive oil. As a result some got a new one along with a new engine if the owner was lucky.