Automatic Handbrake

[Conorking]

Thanks Peter. I keep a note book in the car and record any time it happens. There is no pattern or consistency which convinces me its a fault.

They said its a safety feature so that you cannot apply the handbrake to a moving car, I, like you tested this and the handbrake will apply when the car is rolling when pressed manually, so that proves their argument wrong.

I truely believe something serious will happen to someone and we'll see a recall.

[AJW1100]

Conorking wrote;

""They said its a safety feature so that you cannot apply the handbrake to
a moving car, I, like you tested this and the handbrake will apply when
the car is rolling when pressed manually.""

My last car was VW 170SEL Passatt, with a tiny DPF which is why I changed to a 1.8 petrol Avensis 2011 facelifted estate.

Anyway, should my Avensis brake system suffer a faiure, say a split/fractured pipe, how are you supposed to stop the car ploughing into something? The only way would be to apply the parking brake, or not? I did not see an anchor in the rear storage area.......

On the Passatt with Autohold (Applied the brake automatically when you stopped and (released when clutch let out as on Avensis) If my memory is correct the handbook stated in an emergency the parking brake should be applied to bring the vehicle to a halt.

Anyone tried the parking brake going at speed 30mph+?

Just filled in a satisfaction survey after my service and I mentioned my concerns about the EPB and possible repair costs, surely a lever, cams and cables would be cheaper to make, install, and repair and so make the car cheaper as well? I think the new Auris has a normal lever type handbrake.

Cheers

Alan.

[Heidfirst]

Conorking wrote;

""They said its a safety feature so that you cannot apply the handbrake to

a moving car, I, like you tested this and the handbrake will apply when

the car is rolling when pressed manually.""

My last car was VW 170SEL Passatt, with a tiny DPF which is why I changed to a 1.8 petrol Avensis 2011 facelifted estate.

Anyway, should my Avensis brake system suffer a faiure, say a split/fractured pipe, how are you supposed to stop the car ploughing into something? The only way would be to apply the parking brake, or not? I did not see an anchor in the rear storage area.......

Most brake systems are diagonally split to allow for a failure. I imagine that the Avensis's is.

You can also use the gears for engine braking.

"Just filled in a satisfaction survey after my service and I mentioned my concerns about the EPB and possible repair costs, surely a lever, cams and cables would be cheaper to make, install, and repair and so make the car cheaper as well? I think the new Auris has a normal lever type handbrake. "

Like puncture repair kits v spare wheels (even space-savers) the advantages appear to be all on the manufacturer's side.

I imagine that being a smaller car with smaller engines the new Auris didn't need the weight saving to hit mpg targets & the Avensis did.

[AJW1100]

Good points, but slowing the car with gears is a slow business, if the EPB system works like ABS then that would be better and a lot safer and quicker.

My car, just before the passatt was a 3.0l BMW 5 diesel tourer, a 6 cyl heavy car and that had a lever handbrake, if Toyota feel their lever handbrake is too weak for the Avensis it must be very 'low budget'

Putting a can of tyre inflater in the car is a very cheap option, I would not want my wife to suffer and blowout and not have the chance to get motoring again. I would never buy a car with one if a proper wheel option was not available, I think we can afford the cost of a little extra fuel with the added peace of mind the spare gives us.

[Heidfirst]

It's not that a mechanical handbrake is too weak it's that manufacturers have to meet increasingly harder fleet-wide mpg figures in various markets (EU, US etc.) & they face substantial financial penalties if they don't hit them. (they also claim that it helps with packaging )

It's also the reason for >space-savers>puncture repair kits. You can always buy an extra wheel/tyre afterwards but the manufacturer will have the official testing done without to lower the weight.

[JackTech]

Would any of you people get out of a car before applying a manual handbrake? I assume not.

So WHY do people not wait for the flashing P light to go steady on? The park brake will not hold until it is on!

Every 'handbrake released on its own' I've had the misfortune to look at is down to driver error.

Stop looking for someone to blame.

The many failures of the actuators are due to water ingress and ALWAYS Leave a trouble code. This failure does not happen she parked, there is no way the handbrake will release if it is applied correctly (except obvious mechanical failure)

[Conorking]

_{Of course we wouldn't jack. However, when a handbrake is billed as being automatic, and performs as expected 99.9% of the time, then there is something wrong if it failsto engage on an intermittant basis. I have kept a log and at least once per month, I park, turn off the ignition and the handbrake fails to engage. I then turn the car on and off again for the handbrake to come on. This is a fault and Toyota won't recognise it.}

[JackTech]

I have to disagree. Please go two months consciously waiting for the light to steady on and see if you still have issues.

Thanks

[mintalkin]

there was no code or warning when mine failed to engage but toyota were happy to replace the actuator without any argument so that tells me its more of a common fault than they will let on.

[JackTech]

I work for a dealer and I assure you the only 'common fault' is people not reading the owners manual!

[Raistlin]

I work for a dealer and I assure you the only 'common fault' is people not reading the owners manual!

Harsh... But true

[JackTech]

Pages 227-229 if your interested!

[mintalkin]

so your saying that handbrakes are failing and being replaced because we did not read the handbook!

[JackTech]

No! I'm saying the reason they 'fail' (by that I mean fail to engage) is because people don't wait for the steady light indicating complete application. This is a fact sir.

The actuator replacements are for electrical faults due to water ingress into the actuator/ECU. These 'failures' result in a fault code accompanied with various symptoms I.e a warning light/message, inoperable park brake, failure to auto release on pull off. None of these failures result in a car rolling off by itself etc. a warning message is displayed and in most cases the park brake does not function at all, not works then intermittently releases at will!

There is faults with the system, no one is denying that, but a random 'it won't engage, it rolled off, it hit a wall ITS TOYOTAS FAULT' is due to a misunderstanding of the system. In MY opinion, not Toyota, people become complacent with the auto apply function and exit the car before it is applied.

All I'm saying is don't all look for someone to blame until you've ruled out user error. We'll be taking each other to court for petty crap at this rate. We don't have judge Judy in the UK!

[JackTech]

there was no code or warning when mine failed to engage but toyota were happy to replace the actuator without any argument so that tells me its more of a common fault than they will let on.

I imagine your dealer replaced as a 'keep happy' gesture. Make sure you mark Completely satisfied Mr Smith, thank you.

[tumshie]

VW are now having to look again at the brake problems, since they have had over 120 complaints. It is not simply user error that is causing the problem.! Vosa may also have to revise their findings according to Which magazine.

On 6th March 2014, I experienced the same warning lights as previous two occasions. Toyota replaced the handbrake actuator the first time at 3500 mls, and then the ECU on my car on the second occasion. The same warning code P1750 showed up on both occasions, and now this is the third time.! My car has not even done 8000 mls yet. On this occasion, they were not sure what the problem was but seemed to think it was the Anti lock brake actuator! They reset everything and gave me back my car?

I am not a mechanic, but I have driven Toyota cars for over 30 years, and my 59 plate and now my 13 plate Avensis, have been" in the shop" more in the last 4 years than any of my previous cars. There is a quality issue here, and it has nothing to do with user error.

Toyota GB have still to reply to me regarding the fact that they, with my permission after the last fault, removed the ECU to return to Japan to establish what is going wrong.! I await their findings.

[mintalkin]

i have to agree, i have owned toyota cars for over 20 years in the old days they were bullet proof but not now,the build and quality are not what you would expect from the largest car company in the world, when you look at how kia, hyundai and skoda have improved to be real contenders in the market and toyota just seam to rely on their name and not their cars.i am looking to replace my currant avensis but doubt that it will be another toyota.

[Conorking]

JackTech, I agree that initially when the problem first occured that there was an element of user error, in that I did not wait for the parking light to apply.

This was due to two factors (1) the salesman told me that all I had to do is switch off the ignition for the brake to engage (2) this caused me to put my full trust in the system and I became complacent.

Since that incident, I now wait until I hear the brake engage, see the light go steady and then put the car in first gear before exiting the vehicle. However, on an intermittant basis the brake still fails to engage. I then have to switch the engine off and on again in order for the brake to apply.

Surely this is a fault? Surely the automatic parking break should engage 100% of the time?

The dealership that sold me the car have now fitted a device to log any faults, I have to press a button when it occurs. It's Murphy's law though that it has yet to occur since the device has been fitted.

[revband]

I have owned Toyota cars since the mid 70s, the early ones I had where all built in Japan and I can't remember having a warranty claim on any of them, the first warranty claim I can remember was on a Camry built in the USA the next was a 1998 Avensis built in the UK on this car I had three warranty claims, the next claim was on a 2008 2.2 d4d Avensis for the alloy wheels paint peeling off, my current car a 2011 Avensis 2.2 d4d has currently had three warranty claims, one for the steering column rattling one for the glove box falling in half and one for a faulty valve in the screen washer.

Is the quality of Toyota cars getting worse?. Unfortunately I think it is.

Since this last post the car has been back to the dealer again for the front door seals to be replaced and also supposedly for the parking brake actuator to be replaced, the brake on three occasions was very difficult to release but did after a few attempts, a few hundred yards down the road an alarm sounded and a yellow triange on the dash flashed, the dealer returned the car without replacing the actuater and told me that Toyota had rejected the claim as no stored codes where found.

I contacted Toyota customer services by email I got an automated receipt confirmation but no reply from them as to why they will not repair my car which still has two years warranty on it.

This WILL be my last new Toyota.

[cfc]

JackTech, I agree that initially when the problem first occured that there was an element of user error, in that I did not wait for the parking light to apply.

This was due to two factors (1) the salesman told me that all I had to do is switch off the ignition for the brake to engage (2) this caused me to put my full trust in the system and I became complacent.

Since that incident, I now wait until I hear the brake engage, see the light go steady and then put the car in first gear before exiting the vehicle. However, on an intermittant basis the brake still fails to engage. I then have to switch the engine off and on again in order for the brake to apply.

Surely this is a fault? Surely the automatic parking break should engage 100% of the time?

The dealership that sold me the car have now fitted a device to log any faults, I have to press a button when it occurs. It's Murphy's law though that it has yet to occur since the device has been fitted.

I have been following this thread because I was thinking of moving from an Auris to an Avensis, not sure now!

I have previously owned a Ford C-Max which also had the electronic brake, there were worries about that on the Ford forum with examples of it not working and being costly to repair. I owned the car for several years and had no problem with the brake, it worked faultlessly, when the ignition was turned off the brake came on automatically. This is how the Avensis should work!

I am not happy to hear that Toyota are refusing to help with this.

[Heidfirst]

"when the ignition was turned off the brake came on automatically."

If I don't set it manually that's how it works on my Avensis (Toyota changed the behaviour from the early T27s) at least so far ...

I suspect that Toyota are saying that they won't currently change revband's under warranty because they have no evidence that anything is wrong (no codes) & don't want to start changing things that may in fact not be the problem.

[mintalkin]

when i was in the trade we did not have all the tech help it was use your knowledge to cure the fault, the trouble nowadays is computer says NO!!

[revband]

Your correct there, just finally got a reply from Toyota and basically that is what they said.

[tumshie]

Take car to another dealer, or e-mail Toyota customer services or the MD. the more of us who contact Toyota direct the more Toyota will pay attention. They have already admitted there is a problem so do not let them away with it. Complain to the Managing Director personally via Toyota customer services or better still, direct to him. I have had 2 handbrake actuators replaced and they are still not sure what is causing the problems.

[revband]

Take car to another dealer, or e-mail Toyota customer services or the MD. the more of us who contact Toyota direct the more Toyota will pay attention. They have already admitted there is a problem so do not let them away with it. Complain to the Managing Director personally via Toyota customer services or better still, direct to him. I have had 2 handbrake actuators replaced and they are still not sure what is causing the problems.

The dealer was quite happy to replace the actuator and collected the car from me and took it to do the work, later in the day I got a phone call from them saying that, "Toyota had told them that as there were no stored codes they would not supply the actuator or pay for the labour" The dealer then returned the car to me not repaired.

This is the answer from Toyota when I complained.

Our

ref 646835

18

March 2014

Dear MrXXXX

Thank you for your email of 11^th March 2014 and

please accept my apologies for the delay in responding to you.

I am sorry to read that you have been having problems with the

parking brake on your Avensis and can understand your concerns.

I have spoken with Paul Benson, Service Manager at Hull John

Roe, to understand more about the situation.

He has advised me that at the time your vehicle was with them they were

unable to recreate the fault you reported, and as there were no fault codes

stored they had to conclude that the vehicle was operating correctly. As I am in no doubt you are aware, a Toyota Centre

must submit evidence of a fault in order to carry out a repair under warranty.

I understand from Paul that he has advised you to bring your

vehicle in to them should you experience the fault again, and he and his team

will be happy to investigate further.

In the meantime, I would like to thank you for bringing your

concerns to our attention but regret that I cannot be of further assistance at

this stage.

Yours sincerely

Liz Bednarek

Customer Relations Executive