Now That Was Just Plain Scary !

[CharlieFarlie]

Thought I would start a new thread rather than further clog up the other thread where this has been discussed...

Armed with much information on how to change those !Removed! awful glow plugs on my T180 this morning I decided to give it a go...

But first....... My car has for quite some considerable time been a bit slow to start up first thing in the morning..... This my wife reminds me was something I commented on well before last winter.

I had 18 months ago a huge (As big as you can fit) Bosch Battery fitted. This while not really improving the start up did no harm but in reality just made me feel better..

But yesterday I commented to the supplier of that Battery (The step son of my late very good mate) that my car was seemingly not holding a charge....

No problem Charlie just pop it over this afternoon and we will replace it.. So that's what I did .

But still I had these set of Bilstien Blue Print glow plugs that were recommended by Paul (Voyager T180) sat in their boxes so decided to put them in as the old ones could be the originals of may have been replaced when the engine was replaced some time ago.. No harm in having new ones what with winter upon us eh ?

Hells teeth what a !Removed! game.... How difficult were they to remove ? Out of ten I would say 8 to 9 !

Only the one on cylinder one came out easily....

The one on number two just creaked and groaned.. Back and forth it went doing and undoing till I was rather hissed off... When It eventually got to the end of the threads (30 MINUTES OR SO) It still did not want to come out ! The tube part was seemingly stuck into the head.. Armed with as big a pair of pipe grips as I could get near the plug I pulled pushed swore sprayed WD and Carb cleaner in pushed pulled and swore some more.. Eventually the blooming thing came out...

Same applied to cylinders three and four with number four being the worst of them all..

Would I say this is a DIY job ? Bear in mind these ones I removed have been in the car for less than two years ? Errrr NO.......

[redlew]

How long can glow plugs be expected to last ? I ask as my September 2005 93000mile is still on the originals

[CharlieFarlie]

How long can glow plugs be expected to last ? I ask as my September 2005 93000mile is still on the originals

I believe 60.000 miles. But unless you are having the same slow starting as I have had just leave well alone ? Why borrow a problem ?

As per the other thread I did suspect that my ones must have been replaced along with the engine rather than swapped over.. Now they are out I would say they are the originals. They did on visual inspection look brand new but then Im a bugger for washing and sprucing up under the bonnet and cleaning the engine.

At least now one more thing has been ruled out.. Suppose I wont know until start up first thing tomorrow.

[dave.m]

Just curious Charlie, what type of material are they made from ? Looks like brass or copper in photo which is

Why I guess why Don advised heating up the engine first as you would have all sorts of material expansion

Going on. Anyway glad your sorted without breaking any, now that would have a mare of a job.

[CharlieFarlie]

Just curious Charlie, what type of material are they made from ? Looks like brass or copper in photo which is

Why I guess why Don advised heating up the engine first as you would have all sorts of material expansion

Going on. Anyway glad your sorted without breaking any, now that would have a mare of a job.

Not sure what they are made of Dave but its not brass or copper.. Steel in the body I would think but the tips could be something softer and heat conductive ?

The ones on cylinders one and two both came to a sort of stop roughly half way out.. They refused to go either in or out ! I tell you what it was the stuff of nightmares.. I was really placed in the position of s hit or bust to be honest.....

As above its not a job I would recommend !

I was talking to a mate this afternoon who said why not just get a garage to do them .. If they break one its down to them... My reply was no garage would accept responsibility if one were to break and they would have to charge for either the removal of whatever was left by a company like Extract Engineering or removal of the cylinder head if needed.. Extract engineering are based in Cumbria and there are no other companies I could find on the net that can extract broken studs...

Mate then proceeded to tell me the garage that did the plugs in his Mondeo only managed two of them as the other two they reckoned would break ... That would not do for me !

Thing is is that I took hours to wind back and forth as informed to by Don (Thanks Don).. Now would the average spanner take that time ? Or would patience have ran out ?

I reckon I was a bit lucky ! It really could have gone either way .....................................

[kencat]

I removed my glow plugs cleaned and checked 20 mins no problems ( cold engine) all wrking fine ! Only 3 years old tho 26000 miles

Refitted with a small amount of copper grease

[CharlieFarlie]

Well you were the lucky one then. ... Current engine is way less than two years old and has done something in the region of 23 to. 25.000 miles and these were a swine...

One came out in less than a minute .. The others ..........

[kencat]

Thay look the same as the plugs in the older engine but the part no is different and a different resistance . I use a small long reach socket 2 remove them

[gjnorthall]

The ease of removal of glow plugs is often dependent on how well the plugs were fitted in the first place. After removal - carbon deposits on the glow plug well should be removed with a reamer. Hazet reamers were developed with NGK specifically for this purpose. The second important factor is that the plug should be tightened to the specified torque. Insufficient torque results in gas bypassing and the formation of deposits around the plug tube - this makes subsequent removal very difficult. Too great a torque crushes the annulus between the tube and the heater - this can cause gas bypassing and results in premature failure of the heater.

If the worst comes to the worst - many machine shops and commercial diesel specialists can extract a snapped glow plug without removing the cylinder head.

[voyager t180]

Not sure but those plugs don't look like originals Charlie,you can still see the serial No.and they look much cleaner than mine,which looked like strips of coal.(baked carbon) But you weren't to know that though.

I think you maybe wasted too much time winding them back in and out,once theyve moved up the thread your just winding back down on threads already loosened,if you get my meaning.

Taking so much time on one plug also meant your engine had cooled down as well,possibly making the others harder to remove.

If you had quickly carried on unwinding they would probably have come out anyway,but after my problems I understand why you were so cautious.

Obviously not good, but a snapped plug isn't life threatening either, provided the central core is still intact,I ran mine for 6 months before getting em drilled out.

Anyway glad your perseverance paid off,and alls well that ends well

It

May not alter the cold starting,but you have now,albeit hard earnedly,ruled out the glow plugs.

On these pre 2009 Dcat engines regular EGR cleaning seems essential to reduce the dreaded carbon build up IMO. Why don't Toyota make it part of their service schedule?.

Hope you haven't fallen asleep;-)

[voyager t180]

The ease of removal of glow plugs is often dependent on how well the plugs were fitted in the first place. After removal - carbon deposits on the glow plug well should be removed with a reamer. Hazet reamers were developed with NGK specifically for this purpose. The second important factor is that the plug should be tightened to the specified torque. Insufficient torque results in gas bypassing and the formation of deposits around the plug tube - this makes subsequent removal very difficult. Too great a torque crushes the annulus between the tube and the heater - this can cause gas bypassing and results in premature failure of the heater.

If the worst comes to the worst - many machine shops and commercial diesel specialists can extract a snapped glow plug without removing the cylinder head.

Excellent info there mate. Thanks

I doubt many mechanics would even bother torquing em up.

12.3 Nm btw.

[CharlieFarlie]

Not sure but those plugs don't look like originals Charlie,you can still see the serial No.and they look much cleaner than mine,which looked like strips of coal.(baked carbon) But you weren't to know that though.

I think you maybe wasted too much time winding them back in and out,once theyve moved up the thread your just winding back down on threads already loosened,if you get my meaning.

Taking so much time on one plug also meant your engine had cooled down as well,possibly making the others harder to remove.

If you had quickly carried on unwinding they would probably have come out anyway,but after my problems I understand why you were so cautious.

Obviously not good, but a snapped plug isn't life threatening either, provided the central core is still intact,I ran mine for 6 months before getting em drilled out.

Anyway glad your perseverance paid off,and alls well that ends well

It

May not alter the cold starting,but you have now,albeit hard earnedly,ruled out the glow plugs.

On these pre 2009 Dcat engines regular EGR cleaning seems essential to reduce the dreaded carbon build up IMO.

Hope you haven't fallen asleep;-)

Paul... There were times when undoing that the plug or plugs just came to a stop..... Honestly they really did not want to move and gave the impression that force would end up busting the !Removed! thing/things...

But winding back in meant they would undo a few more turns before stopping again... I was advised to use this method by Don last week and as you know Don really does know his stuff ! It is also the method I was advised to use the week before that when a spark plug in my daughters car refused to come out. Again it finally came out....

You are correct Mate that they may have been replaced and were not the originals but again as you say its one more thing ruled out...

My wife who knows I am looking for a new car reckons I need help by the way.. "Only you would go to all that trouble on a car your selling ect ect"...... Think she has a point !

[voyager t180]

Not sure but those plugs don't look like originals Charlie,you can still see the serial No.and they look much cleaner than mine,which looked like strips of coal.(baked carbon) But you weren't to know that though.

I think you maybe wasted too much time winding them back in and out,once theyve moved up the thread your just winding back down on threads already loosened,if you get my meaning.

Taking so much time on one plug also meant your engine had cooled down as well,possibly making the others harder to remove.

If you had quickly carried on unwinding they would probably have come out anyway,but after my problems I understand why you were so cautious.

Obviously not good, but a snapped plug isn't life threatening either, provided the central core is still intact,I ran mine for 6 months before getting em drilled out.

Anyway glad your perseverance paid off,and alls well that ends well

It

May not alter the cold starting,but you have now,albeit hard earnedly,ruled out the glow plugs.

On these pre 2009 Dcat engines regular EGR cleaning seems essential to reduce the dreaded carbon build up IMO.

Hope you haven't fallen asleep;-)

Paul... There were times when undoing that the plug or plugs just came to a stop..... Honestly they really did not want to move and gave the impression that force would end up busting the !Removed! thing/things...

But winding back in meant they would undo a few more turns before stopping again... I was advised to use this method by Don last week and as you know Don really does know his stuff ! It is also the method I was advised to use the week before that when a spark plug in my daughters car refused to come out. Again it finally came out....

You are correct Mate that they may have been replaced and were not the originals but again as you say its one more thing ruled out...

My wife who knows I am looking for a new car reckons I need help by the way.. "Only you would go to all that trouble on a car your selling ect ect"...... Think she has a point !

Take your point on winding up and down.

Hope you torqued em up Charlie.?

Your mrs' timing in telling you that wasn't the best ha

But anyone buying your car will be getting a well fettled one.

Gnorthalls post I thought gave a good explanation of glow plug fitting,they're not as straightforward as we think.

[anchorman]

More importantly, is it fixed?

[voyager t180]

I was thinking the same Don,but didn't like to ask ;-)

[CharlieFarlie]

Yes I think it is .... It was good and cold here this morning and the car turned quickly and started instantly so I'm hoping it will be just fine now..

I have a digital Snap on Tech wrench that was used to give the correct torque values ....

What are those wee plastic/nylon caps for ? Just curious !

Cheers .

[voyager t180]

Good result then Charlie..always nice when a plan works out.

Not sure, but imagine them plastic covers are to protect the plug tops,and stop your fingers getting burnt?

[anchorman]

The plastic caps cover the ends of the threads which are live during start up (and just after in cold weather). The bus bar which connects the plugs together is plastic coated. There would be a massive short circuit if anything metal touched that bar or the threads so the covers stop that happening.

Glad it is working now. Mine coughed a bit this morning when it was really cold. Other times it is instant so don't expect perfection every start. Mine does start first touch if I sit with the ignition on a few seconds before starting.