Don't Buy A Toyota Auris Excel Hybrid.

[geo13647]

At least not without reading this.

For the third time in a month my >£20k car is just a useless paperweight.

It seems to be, that due to poor design and inadequate research,

an Auris Excel Hybrid just does not work.

The Battery and charging circuits are just not up to the task of keeping the car in a useable state.

The 'off' position, I.e. With the car parked and locked, is a complete misnomer,

As the various 'always on' circuits, specifically the alarm and the 'not so smart entry and start' systems, draw a fair bit of current at all times.

Fair enough, however, unless you run the car EVERY DAY in daylight, in good weather for at least 20 miles,

the design of the inverter based charging circuit and the Battery capacity is pitifully inadequate to keep a reasonable level of chage in the Battery, as a result, the car becomes completely unusable.

In my latest 'issue' this was just after just one day sitting idle.

So, after 3 months of ownership, 2 batteries, and 3 inconvenient 'breakdowns', I

really cannot recommend that anyone considers buying an Auris Excel Hybrid, unless you,

either drive at least 20 miles a day, every day, without needing lights, wipers or radio.

Or invest in an intelligent charger, and an external power point to keep the battery charged.

If I wanted to do that I would have bought a Nissan Leaf or equivalent.

I really like my car, but, it's completely useless in i's current state, so unless Toyota, finally admit the fact that they under specified and poorly designed and issue a recall to replace the charging circuits and battery with more suitable (and reliable components) they will be getting this car back, along with a bill, a lawyers letter, and a whole lot of bad press.

Apologies for the moan, but it's really windy and hissing down here, and my car is broke again.

Regards,

G...

[Sagitar]

Sounds like a duff Battery to me. I had similar problems early in the life of my first Prius. The dealer changed the Battery under warranty and I had no further problems.

[ToyotaAurisHybrid]

Sounds like an exception rather than the rule to me. We have completed circa 10k in ours and had no issues whatsoever.

It may well need some time with Mr T to fully investigate the issues, which I know is not good either, but at least that way you should get your problems solved (and the use of a car at their expense in the meantime of course)

[Nicolai]

My drivetrain is fine. I have rattles (wind screen meeting dash board and squeaks (silver lining around radio) though :-( and the seats make you lean to the left as the left part of the seat is deeper then the right part :-(

Edited November 13, 2013 by Nicolai

[RunningInPleasePass]

At least not without reading this.

For the third time in a month my >£20k car is just a useless paperweight.

It seems to be, that due to poor design and inadequate research,

an Auris Excel Hybrid just does not work.

The battery and charging circuits are just not up to the task of keeping the car in a useable state.

The 'off' position, I.e. With the car parked and locked, is a complete misnomer,

As the various 'always on' circuits, specifically the alarm and the 'not so smart entry and start' systems, draw a fair bit of current at all times.

Fair enough, however, unless you run the car EVERY DAY in daylight, in good weather for at least 20 miles,

the design of the inverter based charging circuit and the battery capacity is pitifully inadequate to keep a reasonable level of chage in the battery, as a result, the car becomes completely unusable.

In my latest 'issue' this was just after just one day sitting idle.

So, after 3 months of ownership, 2 batteries, and 3 inconvenient 'breakdowns', I

really cannot recommend that anyone considers buying an Auris Excel Hybrid, unless you,

either drive at least 20 miles a day, every day, without needing lights, wipers or radio.

Or invest in an intelligent charger, and an external power point to keep the battery charged.

If I wanted to do that I would have bought a Nissan Leaf or equivalent.

I really like my car, but, it's completely useless in i's current state, so unless Toyota, finally admit the fact that they under specified and poorly designed and issue a recall to replace the charging circuits and battery with more suitable (and reliable components) they will be getting this car back, along with a bill, a lawyers letter, and a whole lot of bad press.

Apologies for the moan, but it's really windy and hissing down here, and my car is broke again.

Regards,

G...

I'm sure you have a duff Battery.

In a previous post you say the dealer swapped your Battery for one from a new car, I should make sure this is what they have really done.

[geo13647]

Sounds like a duff battery to me. I had similar problems early in the life of my first Prius. The dealer changed the battery under warranty and I had no further problems.

My thought too, however, this is the second Battery. Could be a bad batch I suppose.

[Ratho1]

I'm now up to 600 miles and certainly I use it every day for short runs of less than 20 miles and have had no problems. Today I managed the trick of a 1 mile run on Battery alone and by then it was half discharged but then the engine kicked in and recharged it over the next 2 miles. Naturally the fuel consumption dropped way down to 39 mpg after that so the initial gain was all lost.

[wass]

If I had these problems, I would be checking that the boot light and all ancillary lights are switching off, I would also ask the dealer whether the charging circuit is not just charging but actually charging at the correct rate. Given that the Battery has already been changed( and is easy enough for a dealer to have checked anyway) The solution has to lie in either the power not being returned to the Battery by the cars low voltage Battery charging circuit or draining out of the cars systems at too high a rate while it is not in use. You've tried changing the battery, have you tried changing the dealer?

[Ratho1]

I have heard that the courtesy lights don't always switch off properly and even though they extinguish they are draining the Battery and can do this over a 24 hr. period. You might want to switch them off altogether and see if that is the source of your problem.

Good luck

[johalareewi]

Today I managed the trick of a 1 mile run on battery alone and by then it was half discharged but then the engine kicked in and recharged it over the next 2 miles.

That will be the HV Battery.

OP has a problem with the 12V Battery.

[Ratho1]

Understood. I was just making the point that ALL XL models are not blighted in the way that his is.I think that my 9:09 post might be relevant here. I always switch off the courtesy lights before leaving the car. Quite a number of manufacturers have given owners this problem. No doubt the switch gear for all cars comes from only one or two suppliers.

[RunningInPleasePass]

I wonder if this problem is something to do with the key-less entry and start, every time you get near the car with the key in your pocket, the car detects it and turns on the interior lights, and perhaps other not so obvious things as well. If your car is parked where you pass by it on a regular basis perhaps this will drain the Battery over time?

[geo13647]

I have heard that the courtesy lights don't always switch off properly and even though they extinguish they are draining the battery and can do this over a 24 hr. period. You might want to switch them off altogether and see if that is the source of your problem.

Good luck

My interior lights are always off, as they are a bit OTT.

The issue is, that the normal system running voltage (according to scangauge ) is 14.6 - 14.7 volts.

The static voltage ( I.e. Just after the car is switched off ) started at 13.2v as expected for a fully charged Battery,

Then, each day was a little less.

After a week of using the car every day for about 20 miles each time, the voltage had dropped to 12.4v.

This was on Monday night, car was not used Tuesday, and was useless on Wednesday night.

The end result is, regardless of the reasons, a car that has been sold as not fit for the purpose it was bought for.

I have 2 elderly parents, and can get calls at any time to attend to them, not so easy in a car that cannot be relied on.

It's now back at the dealer, waiting on a report.

G...

G.

[geo13647]

I wonder if this problem is something to do with the key-less entry and start, every time you get near the car with the key in your pocket, the car detects it and turns on the interior lights, and perhaps other not so obvious things as well. If your car is parked where you pass by it on a regular basis perhaps this will drain the battery over time?

Previous car wax an iQ with smart entry & start, parked in the same place for 4 years with absolutely no issues.

Either mr T was a bit sparing in the design of the charging system, or there is a faulty component or software coding in it.

Regardless of the reason, what earthly use is a car that cannot adequately recharge it's own Battery to a level that makes allowances for the known regular current draw of it's on board systems? ( I'm assuming they actually did some testing at the design stage, but who knows)

G...

[RunningInPleasePass]

I wonder if this problem is something to do with the key-less entry and start, every time you get near the car with the key in your pocket, the car detects it and turns on the interior lights, and perhaps other not so obvious things as well. If your car is parked where you pass by it on a regular basis perhaps this will drain the battery over time?

Previous car wax an iQ with smart entry & start, parked in the same place for 4 years with absolutely no issues.

Either mr T was a bit sparing in the design of the charging system, or there is a faulty component or software coding in it.

Regardless of the reason, what earthly use is a car that cannot adequately recharge it's own Battery to a level that makes allowances for the known regular current draw of it's on board systems? ( I'm assuming they actually did some testing at the design stage, but who knows)

G...

My wife has an IQ with smart entry and start, and as you say it has non of the problems of flat batteries like the hybrid.

The Battery in the IQ is far larger though, and it does not turn the interior lights on when you approach it, perhaps the hybrid just needs to be fitted with a larger Battery.

By the way is your Scangauge drawing current when the car is parked?

[Parts-King]

I can understand your frustration, we had one with a similar issue that ended up with a couple of faulty batteries

The charging system is perfectly adequate, you quite clearly have a Battery or charging issue that needs looking at

Before going down the "rejecting your car" route, have a firm but polite word with the selling dealer Dealer Principle and explain what has happened and what you propose to do if the car cannot be fixed within a sensible, agreed timeline. Then put what has been said and agreed in a letter and post it to him

Very often the Sales or General manager will not know anything about you having had serious problems and sufficient resources are not put into finding a solution quickly enough, a chat with the DP will have it sorted in no time I'm sure

Rejecting a car is not easy, is time consuming, and you must have given the selling dealer a decent enough opportunity to put it right, hence having a chat with the DP, putting everything in writing and agreeing a timeline (say 30 days)

Kingo

[steverally]

I'm no Scangauge expert but I have read on several other forums, 'Priuschat and 'Caravaner' that the OBDII port is always live.

The Scangauge goes into sleep mode when you switch off but it still draws about 15mA. One contributor claims that by just walking close to his vehicle causing the interior light to activate fired up his Scangauge!! As the Battery voltage drops there could be a time when the Scangauge programme gets scrambled and draws more current than normal, like problems with some car alarms.

As the hybrid Battery is not as substantial as normal vehicles this drain could be over a short period as you've described.

Many on Priuschat have highlighted that they remove the cable from the scangauge when stopped.. have you tried this to see whether that eliminates your problems?

[Aceshigh84]

I drained the Battery on my last Accord by forgetting about the obd reader I had left plugged in. As others have stated, it is always live.

[geo13647]

I'm no Scangauge expert but I have read on several other forums, 'Priuschat and 'Caravaner' that the OBDII port is always live.

The Scangauge goes into sleep mode when you switch off but it still draws about 15mA. One contributor claims that by just walking close to his vehicle causing the interior light to activate fired up his Scangauge!! As the Battery voltage drops there could be a time when the Scangauge programme gets scrambled and draws more current than normal, like problems with some car alarms.

As the hybrid battery is not as substantial as normal vehicles this drain could be over a short period as you've described.

Many on Priuschat have highlighted that they remove the cable from the scangauge when stopped.. have you tried this to see whether that eliminates your problems?

Yes. I have disconnected the scanguage, and it still failed in about a week.

I keep the interior lights off, so the only one active is the boot light.

Certainly, the charging circuits seem to be ok for an Icon, but the extra bits in the Excel, mainly the smart entry & start,

Seem to stretch the charge/ discharge cycle to it's limit.

Can't be certain, but recon that the Battery & charging control is exactly the same in both models.

The problems started as the weather got colder & damper,

it may be that some component that was working at it's limit,

has failed or been stretched outside it's tolerance limits.

Dealer has given me a cvt Yaris meantime, so at least, I'm back on the road.

G...

[geo13647]

I can understand your frustration, we had one with a similar issue that ended up with a couple of faulty batteries

The charging system is perfectly adequate, you quite clearly have a battery or charging issue that needs looking at

Before going down the "rejecting your car" route, have a firm but polite word with the selling dealer Dealer Principle and explain what has happened and what you propose to do if the car cannot be fixed within a sensible, agreed timeline. Then put what has been said and agreed in a letter and post it to him

Very often the Sales or General manager will not know anything about you having had serious problems and sufficient resources are not put into finding a solution quickly enough, a chat with the DP will have it sorted in no time I'm sure.

Rejecting a car is not easy, is time consuming, and you must have given the selling dealer a decent enough opportunity to put it right, hence having a chat with the DP, putting everything in writing and agreeing a timeline (say 30 days)

Kingo

Yep, rejecting the car is a last resort, as I really do like the car, after all I bought it :)

I know the DP and I'm sure he will be helpful, after all hopefully 3rd time will be a charm.

Just not used to getting a 'lemon' from mr T, it's so unusual.

G...

[Nicolai]

Does anybody else get a squeeking sound when pressing the silver lining around the radio/ touch and go?

Mine squeeks when I press and sometimes during acceleration and during braking. I also have a slight rattle from the dashboard/windscreen line and plastic used in the doors. Is this normal?

Speaking of bootl ight am Iright that this cannot be turned off permanently.

As to the original topic: done 2,300 miles (lots of short runs) and no problems with Battery. Mine is a European H2+ though (smart start but not -entry. Courtesy light on "auto".

[Surv1v0r]

This is not the first time I have read of problems with the tiny 12v Battery in a Toyota Hybrid where the car has been left unused for a while.

I have just returned from ten days away and a Nissan Micra with keyless entry and start (full size 12v battery) started first time. I have certainly left this car unused for at least a fortnight on many occasions before and have NEVER had a problem with it not starting. I have never had a problem with my Toyota Picnic not starting, even when left unused for weeks on end. However, that is some 15 years old and doesn't have all the quiescent goodies that more modern cars have to have.

Seems like a Toyota Hybrid issue - VERY sad.

[cviclark]

I have had Both 2nd Gen and 3rd Gen Prius and have had an Auris HSD Excel TS for about a month. I have not had any problems of the type you describe but I am not happy with the digital displays not showing speed as the speedo is well hidden. Toyota customer relations are a waste of time and nobody technical (or anybody who as actually driven a hybrid) appears to work at Toyota GB. The Auris TS HSD is electronically very similar to my last Prius, the only additional circuit I have found being the 12v outlet in the boot and of course bluetooth. My Prius (Keyless) was left unattended for weeks on end without a problem. Honda have had similar problems to what you describe with bluetooth connections (as have most win8 laptops). bluetooth remains active and looking for devices even when the power is off and can cause Battery drain. I have also noticed the boot hard to close and if all the doors are not fully closed that can cause a flat Battery.

My problems have been 17" wheels causing poor fuel consumption and Speedo being hard to see. I negotiated 16" wheels prior to delivery but because the insurance company viewed this as a modification had to take the standard 17" wheels. The lack of digital speed display should be an easy fix. The multi-information display can show average speed and duplicates all the useless info of the Touch but not speed. As there is so little audible indication of speed on hybrids this is downright dangerous but Toyota, looking for 100% satisfaction do not want to know. I love hybrids and the car but Toyota GB do not deserve customers. I bought a Lexus in Belgium,my second Prius had aftermarket reversing sensors and was base spec so I could have a space saver and 15" wheels because of Toyota GB's intransigence. Great cars blighted by silly marketing idiots.

Has anybody experience of HUD-e on a hybrid?

[Nicolai]

I have had Both 2nd Gen and 3rd Gen Prius and have had an Auris HSD Excel TS for about a month. I have not had any problems of the type you describe

Was this for me or original poster?

[cviclark]

I have had Both 2nd Gen and 3rd Gen Prius and have had an Auris HSD Excel TS for about a month. I have not had any problems of the type you describe

Was this for me or original poster?

sorry the original poster