Don't Buy A Toyota Auris Excel Hybrid.

[PeteB]

Maybe it's worth seeing how good Google translate is and trying a letter to Japan!

[FROSTYBALLS]

It may be all well and good writing to Toyota Japan - all that will happen is that the matter will be referred back to the appropriate sales and marketing organisation to handle (Toyota GB).

As regards the speedometer being marked to 160mph, that is a manufacturing standardisation, and other manufacturers do this as well.

Another factor is probably the level of complaints on these issues - unless a manufacturer receives a certain level of complaints on an issue, it won't result in any change. The same applies to safety recalls - unless DVSA receive a certain level of complaints about a potential safety issue, they won't investigate it with the manufacturer (the EGR issue with the IQ is one example).

[Fecn]

Hooray - just sold my Auris (granted I took a massive hit on that, but I'm happy it's gone now). I thought I'd love it before I bought it. I thought I'd learn to love it once I took delivery, but after doing 6900 miles in it I just couldn't face getting behind the wheel one more time (and started driving my Toyota Hiace van in preference... which is a whole lot more enjoyable experience.) I feel so happy now.

I guess this will be my last post to this forum since all the people who love their Aurises will now jump on me and call me names.

Over and out.

Cheers chaps.

[Grumpy Cabbie]

I fear we'll hear more of this.

What ARE Toyota UK doing these days? Market share is slipping yet they have some good products, some made here in the UK. What's their market share in Europe? Is that increasing? I ask because the range seems to becoming more European-ised probably in the hope of attracting more French, Hungarian or German owners. But is that causing a loss of sales here in the UK where we're historically happy driving Japanese cars?

I also think there have been some changes in the last couple years. I've not had one of those surveys when I've had work carried out on my car since about 2011 and neither has Mrs Cabbie. Do they no longer want to know what their customers think these days? And there also seems to be much more resistance to warranty work too. In the past Toyota were definitely no quibble when it came to warranty claims. With the experience we're having with the IQ and it's whining auto box it's almost like we're dealing with Citroen.

I fear Toyota are learning lessons on customer service (or lack of) from their partnership with Peugeot and Citroen.

[Devon Aygo]

I have been trying all year to find a contact in the Toyota Customer satisfaction team who can make things happen,,without any success. UK customer services do not appear to have ever seen, driven, or owned a Hybrid, they do not know the details of the car I own and just "trot out" the company line or read the spec sheet. There is not any logical reason for the speedo to have such small increments that it can not be seen. A car barely capable of reaching 100mph does not need a 160mph speedo. There is not any reason for the digital screen to give a clear reading of useless averages (duplicated on the "big screen") but not road speed. It is stupid to tell customers the information is not available from the ODB when all is required is someone to recognise it is a problem and issue as simple download.

48mpg is no better than my son gets from a similar size Honda and about 3mpg down on my Gen 3 Prius. This is because it is on 17" wheels and LP tyres that I had no choice but to accept.

If Toyota cared about Customer Satisfaction they would welcome criticism from customers and listen to it. At the very least make it easy to give feedback and follow up complaints. All criticism is not negative This is my fourth Toyota, Third hybrid but I think my last.

What are you expecting Toyota to do? The car you have is no different to the car you test drove so at no time was the car misrepresented.

When customers have issues such as yours where there is no fault with the car but an item or feature that is not liked or perceived to not operate correctly, your contact is with customer relations they will respond, which they have albeit with an answer you do not like and they will pass your comments onto the people responsible for product design/specifications, but that is about all that will happen unless there are hundreds if not thousand of complaints on the same issue.

In effect at the moment you seem to be asking Toyota to redesign the instrument cluster assembly and create new software purely based on your single complaint, this is never going to happen for one person. Purely looking at adding another read to display the speed, because of the rules and regulations surrounding how and what a speedo must display any alterations including alternative displays would require that the item be designed, installed then the vehicle be resubmitted for vehicle type approval, a process that takes a huge amount of time, effort, a massive amount of money and would normally only happen once just before the introduction of a new model.

A good example of how long it can take to get through the whole type approval process is the 12v Battery issue that affected MK3 Auris, the fault was quickly identified and a fix was created however before a fix could be issued Toyota had to prove to the type approval authorities that by applying the fix to both new cars and cars already out in use would not alter the car in any way in comparison to the previously type approved model, once the authorities where happy the software update had no affect then Toyota where allowed to issue a fix this process took months.

[FROSTYBALLS]

I fear we'll hear more of this.

What ARE Toyota UK doing these days? Market share is slipping yet they have some good products, some made here in the UK. What's their market share in Europe? Is that increasing? I ask because the range seems to becoming more European-ised probably in the hope of attracting more French, Hungarian or German owners. But is that causing a loss of sales here in the UK where we're historically happy driving Japanese cars?

I also think there have been some changes in the last couple years. I've not had one of those surveys when I've had work carried out on my car since about 2011 and neither has Mrs Cabbie. Do they no longer want to know what their customers think these days? And there also seems to be much more resistance to warranty work too. In the past Toyota were definitely no quibble when it came to warranty claims. With the experience we're having with the IQ and it's whining auto box it's almost like we're dealing with Citroen.

I fear Toyota are learning lessons on customer service (or lack of) from their partnership with Peugeot and Citroen.

Think Toyota view the European market as less important than the US and Asian markets, probably due to the fact that there is less scope for growth.

The European market has shrunk in recent years, and Toyota had a market share of 4.16% in 2013. Cars like the Auris and Yaris are both at 6th place in their market segments - Auris sales increasing by 59% since the second generation was introduced.

[Mickfb]

I have a Auris Sports Touring. My thoughts

Fuel consumption, 60+ mpg

Low profile tyres, no problem in fact I find that the tyres and suspension work well together. It soaks up speed bumps.

Comfort, I drive this car for hours and not feel tired. Totally relaxing drive. I do 18000 plus miles a year.

It's not a diesel, cheaper fuel costs, no complicated Diesel engine with all the pollution controls.

Speedo, odd numbers are half way between the even numbers it's not rocket science. If you can't see the numbers then perhaps a trip to the opticians is needed.

As you can tell I am very happy with the car. To be honest I didn't buy the car because it's a Hybrid, I just loved the driving experience. I have had this car a year now and still have a smile on my face every time I get in it.

Mick

[Grumpy Cabbie]

I fear we'll hear more of this.

Think Toyota view the European market as less important than the US and Asian markets, probably due to the fact that there is less scope for growth.

The European market has shrunk in recent years, and Toyota had a market share of 4.16% in 2013. Cars like the Auris and Yaris are both at 6th place in their market segments - Auris sales increasing by 59% since the second generation was introduced.

My understanding was that 4.16% was 2012 and 3.91% in 2013.

Is being in 6th place good? Who is ahead, everyone else?

And if Europe is a backwater compared to the US and Asia, then why make a load of compromised models for that small market when sales just aren't there. Do the figures show that the more Toyota tune their cars for Europe, the less they sell.

Frosty, what of the lack of these surveys? I thought they were a great way to get feedback and to keep the dealers keen (didn't they get rewards for good feedback). The Toyota warranty was a great way of inspiring confidence in the product, but if it's costing Toyota too much to the point they're starting to get picky, then it's not worth the paper and will lead to bad feeling.

[Joseph D]

... I guess this will be my last post to this forum since all the people who love their Aurises will now jump on me and call me names. ...

Not at all, if one car would suit all people, then there wouldn't be so many makes and models to choose from.

Hooray - just sold my Auris (granted I took a massive hit on that, but I'm happy it's gone now). I thought I'd love it before I bought it. I thought I'd learn to love it once I took delivery, but after doing 6900 miles in it I just couldn't face getting behind the wheel one more time (and started driving my Toyota Hiace van in preference... which is a whole lot more enjoyable experience.) I feel so happy now. ...

What were the top one or two things that made the car unenjoyable for you? I ask, because I once used to drive a Highace, and while it was ok for what it was, there were things I liked and things I didn't, but I didn't miss it after trading it for a Toyota Camry, and then trading that for a Prius.

All the best with the new van.

[FROSTYBALLS]

Re the Auris being in sixth place in it's market segment - the rankings are:

1. VW Golf

2. Ford Focus

3. Opel/Vauxhall Astra

4. Skoda Octavia

5. Renault Megane

6. Toyota Auris

7. Hyundai i30

8. Peugeot 308

9. Kia Ceed

10. Seat Leon

11. Citroen C4

12. Honda Civic

13. VW Beetle

14. Chevrolet Cruze

15. Skoda Rapid

16. Citroen DS4

17. Mazda 3

18. Toyota Prius

19. VW Jetta

20. Seat Toledo

Additionally the Toyota Corolla (saloon) came in at 26.

As regards the Yaris:

1. Ford Fiesta

2. Renault Clio

3. VW Polo

4. Opel/Vauxhall Corsa

5. Peugeot 208

6. Toyota Yaris

7. Dacia Sandero

8. Citroen C3

9. Seat Ibiza

10. Skoda Fabia

11. Fiat Punto

12. Hyundai i20

13. Nissan Micra

14. Kia Rio

15. Citroen DS3

16. Dacia Logan

17. Suzuki Swift

18. Honda Jazz

19. Peugeot 207

20. Mazda 2

Additionally the Toyota Urban Cruiser came in at 26.

From sales so far in 2014, Toyota look set to achieve a 5% market share.

In regard to European market models, these are largely the Verso, Avensis and the Aygo.

Avensis sales are declining (less than half of what they were in 2009), as are most mass market badged cars in that sector, yet has retained 6th place in that segment.

The Aygo is produced by a joint venture with PSA (Peugeot/Citroen), and without this sharing of development costs, it is unlikely that the car would have happened. We may have had a re-badged Daihatsu instead - which is what Toyota have in the Asian markets.

The current Auris is sold as the Corolla in other markets - though I think the Touring Sport may be European market only.

Surveys - I remember the time when any service or whatever, resulted in a survey questionnaire being sent out to the customer. From around 2010/2011, Toyota changed their system so now any survey questionnaires are generated on a random basis. I think this is a retrograde step, as, in my opinion, the surveys very much kept the dealers 'on their toes' and they were very keen to get good feedback. Back when we bought new Corollas in 1996 and 1998, the survey questionnaires were very important to dealers.

[Grumpy Cabbie]

Thanks Frosty. Good to hear the positives.

The last paragraph is of concern. I had a feeling there was a change as we've not heard from Toyota UK since about 2011 and both me and Mrs Cabbie have been to the dealers a fair number of times.

You didn't mention about the change in warranty work and whether there's a clamping down/tightening up of claims. On one hand Toyota bent over backwards to help me when my inverter fried outside of warranty, but recently Mrs C can't get her auto transmission sorted. The dealer are listening and very understanding but we don't tick all the boxes (so to speak) and thus can't have a replacement. So we're driving around in a whining/groaning 4 year old car with 37,000 miles on it. Not happy. What's the point of a 5 year warranty if it's costing the manufacturer too much that they're then resisting claims?

Toyota and their dealers have historically had loyal customers due to their back up. If that's changing then they might lose them. We have two Toyotas because of their historically good service and because our local Honda dealers were poor to say the least. But if Toyota are going to start treating customers like Citroen, then why not just buy something else instead. Loyalty works both ways and it was refreshing that Toyota once understood that.

[FROSTYBALLS]

To be honest since 2006, the only experience we've had of Toyota's attitude towards warranty claims was when we had to have the tailgate struts replaced due to corrosion on our Corolla in 2009, and when I had to have a cupholder replaced on our Auris in 2011. Both minor issues and both sorted quickly and without fuss.

Think in today's times, most manufacturers are tightening up on warranty work. On our Hyundai, we have had an issue with the dealer fitted side moulding on one door starting to come unstuck, due to the warm weather. Initially they used a different adhesive to re-attach the moulding, but then had to approach Hyundai to order a complete new set - the process of which seemed a bit lengthy.

[Whitewagon]

On the satisfaction questionnaire point I have had three services and two warranty claims on my Avensis and within two days of completion or each one I have had a telephone call from the servicing dealer to check that I was satisfied with the service I had received. Now it may not mean much but it does add to the feeling that I am getting a good service from the dealer.

[cviclark]

Devon Aygo

I thought I had been misquoted but I did say 3mpg down I meant 8mpg.

I never said the car was misrepresented and I like both Hybrid Drive and the Auris estate body. My disappointment is that it could be so much better. The speedo is unique to the Auris Hybrid and not the same as the 1.3 petrol I first test drove. At the time I was test drove the Auris Hybrid I also tested a Merc 180 Est and Focus estate both had similar multifunction display setups. I did not play with the Auris Multifunction which was set to Average MPG but did remark that the Speedo was hard to see. I presumed I would be able to set speed on the digital multifunction, my mistake. Making road speed an option on the Multifunction should not be either difficult or require the procedures you think as the information already on there is duplicated on the big screen. I have fitted a Hud-e directly to the ODB port, which works well, and proves just how easy it should be to show this information. My complaint is nothing to do with accuracy but clarity. The speedo on the 1.3 petrol is fine, big central and easy to read.

Surely wheel and tyre choice should be down to customer preference in UK as on the continent. I refused to buy this car until my dealer agreed to supply it on 16 " wheels. Unfortunately I had not consulted the insurance company first, who because Toyota had not homologated the Excel Est in UK on 16" wheels saw this as a modification.

Dont get me wrong I love the way it drives and the practicality of the body, and that I have a proper spare but there are a number of stupid problems that Toyota should have easily foreseen.

[FROSTYBALLS]

At the end of the day, the issues you have may pose problems for you, but not necessarily for other people, and this is what you don't seem to accept.

As regards the wheel fitments - the Toyota France equivalent to the UK Excel is the 'Hybride Style', and like the UK Excel comes with 17 inch alloy wheels as standard.

In Germany the Excel equivalent is the 'Hybrid Executive', and again comes with 17 inch alloy wheels as standard.

Neither website states that one can opt for other sizes of wheel in this powertrain/trim combination.

[cviclark]

Where do you think I got the recommendation for the Hud-e from? Another disgruntled Auris Hybrid user. I am not the only customer to complain of this speedo. How many users of this model have you asked? Fine if you want to tow the Toyota line go ahead.

[lininjim]

We have the hud-e. You can only buy them from the chap himself (one chap, home business). It doesn't work when the inside of the car gets too hot though. We might be selling ours as we have pre-ordered some other thing, can let you know after husband recovers from his heart attack :(

[Cyker]

The wheels thing is a bit stupid IMHO; Maybe if they were non-Toyota rims or were larger and more expensive, but going from alloys to steel or to smaller OE alloys shouldn't allow insurance companies to charge you more!

I do wonder who Toyota interview about the interiors and such - I personally loved the space-age digital dash in my Mk1 Yaris and was well disappointed when they went back to boring Ford Model-T dials in the newer ones, and from others on here I know I'm not alone!

For comparison, the speedo on the Aygo is gigantic and right in the field of view but is still harder to glance at than the luminescent digits on my Yaris despite wasting so much valuable dash space.

[MEP's Yaris GS]

The wheels thing is a bit stupid IMHO; Maybe if they were non-Toyota rims or were larger and more expensive, but going from alloys to steel or to smaller OE alloys shouldn't allow insurance companies to charge you more!

Don't make the assumption that all insurers will charge, just because its a modification doesn't mean an insurance will charge you, some of the better insurers won't, it tends to be the cheap and nasty ones that do as they want to claw back some of those savings you've made.

Ultimately its them indemnifying you, and quite rightly they can charge for any modification they want if they've a justified reason.

[Grumpy Cabbie]

The wheels thing is a bit stupid IMHO; Maybe if they were non-Toyota rims or were larger and more expensive, but going from alloys to steel or to smaller OE alloys shouldn't allow insurance companies to charge you more!

Don't make the assumption that all insurers will charge, just because its a modification doesn't mean an insurance will charge you, some of the better insurers won't, it tends to be the cheap and nasty ones that do as they want to claw back some of those savings you've made.

Ultimately its them indemnifying you, and quite rightly they can charge for any modification they want if they've a justified reason.

It depends on the insurer. Some won't accept ANY modifications, some will and just note their records, some will increase your theft excess and some will charge. But you need to tell them.

[FROSTYBALLS]

Where do you think I got the recommendation for the Hud-e from? Another disgruntled Auris Hybrid user. I am not the only customer to complain of this speedo. How many users of this model have you asked? Fine if you want to tow the Toyota line go ahead.

Nothing to do with toeing the Toyota line, and I have no interest in canvassing other owners of the Auris Hybrid for views on the legibility of the speedo. I'm still correct in my previous comment regarding the level of complaints on these issues - unless a manufacturer receives a certain level of complaints on an issue, it won't result in any change. Accept it.

[greigster]

I have to admit, I have no problem seeing any of the dials. I have only just purchased the 14 hybrid and cannot as yet, find any fault with it, it is both the most economical and fun car I have owned. Buy I guess it is all subjective,

[Grumpy Cabbie]

All cars are a compromise. For everyone who loves that modern digital speedo there are many who long for a dial. Test drive a car, give it a good coat of looking at and see if it ticks the boxes that matter to you and if it does, buy it. If it doesn't, look elsewhere.

There are some things about the Prius I'm not keen on or think could have been done better way. But overall I like it. I don't seek to issue a petition about the parts I don't like. I move on. If there are too many negatives to a car I don't buy it or I sell it.

I fear the hybrid is a victim of its own success. Perhaps too many people are buying them purely for the tax saving reasons and thus come to dislike or resent the actual car? They long for that V6 diesel BMW Estate but their boss or their accountant won't let them have it and despite saving £2k a year with the hybrid, they just plain resent it.

Or maybe you just can't please all the people all the time.

[APS]

I have resigned to the fact that I know I'm the type of person who will never be completely satisfied with any car. It's just a question of what I can learn to live with. ...so I'm just chiming in with what GC said in the post above - it will always be a compromise on some points. Where you compromise is your choice.

In any case - coming back to the original issue of this thread - are we any closer to an answer and solution to the dead Battery kerfuffle?

[FROSTYBALLS]

In any case - coming back to the original issue of this thread - are we any closer to an answer and solution to the dead battery kerfuffle?

From posts 244, 245 and 255, Toyota have started a customer satisfaction campaign (as it isn't a safety issue a recall isn't required) to apply the fix to customer's vehicles.