Don't Buy A Toyota Auris Excel Hybrid.

[Cyker]

The solar panel trickle charger idea is a goodun :)

Don't some HSD's come with solar panels? I wonder if you can hook it into the 12V...?

[johalareewi]

The solar panel trickle charger idea is a goodun :) Don't some HSD's come with solar panels? I wonder if you can hook it into the 12V...?

The solar panel on the gen3 powers a small fan to maintain airflow through the vehicle when it is parked in the sun. It doesn't charge the HV or 12V Battery. There are threads on Prius Chat about the pros and cons of trying to use it to charge a Battery.

[cviclark]

As I no longer have it I cannot check the Battery in my Gen 3 Prius but I think it was bigger than 35aH. I always thought it was 40aH or 45 aH. As I said I wired a 12v socket into the Gen 2 straight to the Battery which I used to connect up the Airflow conditioner (like the CTEK). I will check the 12v Socket in the boot of the Auris but I just assumed it was direct wired. I guess Toyota fit different capacity batteries in different countries depending on trim and accessories. In a cold climate you need a larger capacity Battery, but it should be a simple upgrade if it is needed. Although the manual does not mention it I would always connect another 12v battery in parallel before removing the old battery. On the Prius it can be connected to the charge points in the engine bay. This maintains 12v to the various memories. As already said when working on or charging / jump starting a modern car take care of polarity and connection sequence. Get it wrong and you can do a lot of damage its not volts that kill its current.

[RunningInPleasePass]

At least not without reading this.

For the third time in a month my >£20k car is just a useless paperweight.

It seems to be, that due to poor design and inadequate research,

an Auris Excel Hybrid just does not work.

The battery and charging circuits are just not up to the task of keeping the car in a useable state.

The 'off' position, I.e. With the car parked and locked, is a complete misnomer,

As the various 'always on' circuits, specifically the alarm and the 'not so smart entry and start' systems, draw a fair bit of current at all times.

Fair enough, however, unless you run the car EVERY DAY in daylight, in good weather for at least 20 miles,

the design of the inverter based charging circuit and the battery capacity is pitifully inadequate to keep a reasonable level of chage in the battery, as a result, the car becomes completely unusable.

In my latest 'issue' this was just after just one day sitting idle.

So, after 3 months of ownership, 2 batteries, and 3 inconvenient 'breakdowns', I

really cannot recommend that anyone considers buying an Auris Excel Hybrid, unless you,

either drive at least 20 miles a day, every day, without needing lights, wipers or radio.

Or invest in an intelligent charger, and an external power point to keep the battery charged.

If I wanted to do that I would have bought a Nissan Leaf or equivalent.

I really like my car, but, it's completely useless in i's current state, so unless Toyota, finally admit the fact that they under specified and poorly designed and issue a recall to replace the charging circuits and battery with more suitable (and reliable components) they will be getting this car back, along with a bill, a lawyers letter, and a whole lot of bad press.

Apologies for the moan, but it's really windy and hissing down here, and my car is broke again.

Regards,

G...

The original post was about a new car letting the owner down by having a flat Battery, the last we heard, after three weeks he still had not had the problem resolved.

I think Toyota has had a problem with duff batteries, and have made the problem worse for the owners of these problem batteries by not fitting a new Battery, but insisting that it is somehow the owners fault, and need to alter their driving habits to suit their new car, if hybrid cars need to be treated differently from other cars Toyota need to make this clear.

[geo13647]

Yep! I'm still patiently waiting.

G...

[cviclark]

I am sure we would all like to be kept abreast of Georges problem and the outcome. My Excel TS has not had a problem yet, but it would be a problem if the Battery dies in the garage as it is a tighter fit than the Prius and will be very hard to get to the charge point. If I remember correct when the Prius went flat it could not be pushed out the garage and I could not get into the boot,

[FROSTYBALLS]

I visited the Honest John website tonight and noticed the following in the 'Good and Bad' section of the Auris review:

"10-10-2013: Complaint of Battery repeatedly draining overnight. Probably the interior light 'see you out' dimmer switch remaining 'open circuit'. If this happens, switch the light off entirely at the switch."

Just a thought.

[yar]

Hi, I've had my Auris Hybrid for 18 months now, with one Battery problem. I had one small scare when I couldn't get into the car (keyless entry failed), then "key not detected" message on screen. Oh Oh I thought. Changed the key fob Battery, still the same. Reseated the Battery in the fob again, and it all works fine.

I do around 15K miles per year, mixed local and longer distances. I've never had the problem reported.

Ray

[geo13647]

I visited the Honest John website tonight and noticed the following in the 'Good and Bad' section of the Auris review:

"10-10-2013: Complaint of battery repeatedly draining overnight. Probably the interior light 'see you out' dimmer switch remaining 'open circuit'. If this happens, switch the light off entirely at the switch."

Just a thought.

Yup. It's never on.

G...

[geo13647]

Latest update. Still no car, HOWEVER, mr T sent me a questionaire, asking how I drove the car.

Things like 'did I leave the car parked unlocked, with the keys nearby?' , Duh!

They are still not admitting a fault, surprise, surprise.

The service manager apparently got a huge long list of Battery tests to do, and return the results, with my question sheet.

Meanwhile, found out that even the Sport Tourer, suffers from the same malaise.

Parked at the airport, he came back 4 weeks later to a very flat Battery.

Watch this space.

G...

[geo13647]

Latest update. Still no car, HOWEVER, mr T sent me a questionaire, asking how I drove the car.

Things like 'did I leave the car parked unlocked, with the keys nearby?' , Duh!

They are still not admitting a fault, surprise, surprise.

The service manager apparently got a huge long list of battery tests to do, and return the results, with my question sheet.

Meanwhile, found out that even the Sport Tourer, suffers from the same malaise.

Parked at the airport, he came back 4 weeks later to a very flat battery.

Watch this space.

G...

Further update.

Apparently the reply from mr T is a follows.

'The only reason that the Battery goes flat, is that the customer keeps his keys too close to the car.'

' inform the customer to keep his keys further away.'

So! How close is too close?

I keep my keys at least 10m away. Any further & I'll have to keep them in the garden shed, or with a neighbour.

Or perhaps the next town might be better?

No, wait! That won't work either.

What about the family that left their car at the airport, went on holiday, came back 4 weeks later to a flat Battery.

Apparently 2000 miles is also too close...

Getting a car back after nearly a month, that has had the 12v Battery charged, and been washed.

So! My topic title still stands. 'DO NOT BUY A TOYOTA AURIS EXCEL HYBRID'

as Toyota are aparently unable to RECOGNISE & REPAIR a design fault in their own vehicles.

Well done mr T, or perhaps it should be 'model T' as that seems to be the limit of their technical abilities.

Disheartened, disgusted & really quite annoyed.

G...

[Ratho1]

You seem to have covered most things George, so, just a thought. Is there too big a power drain coming from the engine immobiliser and alarm system, which I believe is always switched on ?

As a general comment, it does seem that a lot of people have been caught out with flat batteries, usually when their cars haven't been used for a few days, which does suggest under capacity batteries is the root cause of the problem..

[geo13647]

You seem to have covered most things George, so, just a thought. Is there too big a power drain coming from the engine immobiliser and alarm system, which I believe is always switched on ?

As a general comment, it does seem that a lot of people have been caught out with flat batteries, usually when their cars haven't been used for a few days, which does suggest under capacity batteries is the root cause of the problem..

Yup, agreed.

Simple physics say that a small storage medium that has more current leaving, than it has entering, will in a very short time, run out.

There are 3 possible areas to this problem.

1. The storage medium is too small. (Or faulty).

2. The charging process is inadequate.

3. The quiescent current is too high.

Or a combination of all 3.

However, getting mr T to understand this, is an uphill struggle, it would seem that their technical expertise stops with the model T.

G...

[cviclark]

I understand your frustration with Toyota. Increasing the capacity of the Battery is such a simple fix, even, the dumb nuts from marketing should have got to grips with it by now. The niggles (Wheels & Speedo) I have with mine pale into insignificance compared to the Battery problem, but should be equally simple to fix. The problem is finding anybody in Toyota with any technical ability, who has the nerve to challenge the idiots who decided to specify the car this way. A good car, designed by engineers, ruined by accounting and marketing idiots.

Is it too late to reject the car?

Mine is an Excel TS and I was surprised to see a message saying shutting down to preserve Battery power while waiting in a car park with the radio on after about 15 mins. I also use a mini compressor to inflate the tires. I would normally keep the engine running when I do that as it can take up to 10A. I did all 4, as it was delivered with only 30 psi, and the engine did not start at all.

As with the Prius I have given up trying to second guess Toyota's fuzzy logic that decides when to run the battery.

Did you check out the bluetooth?

As I do not have a mobile I have never needed it but my sons Honda had the infamous bluetooth battery problem, I also switch off all Auto functions Lights / wipers and interior lights. The boot light does not have an override switch ( it did on the Prius) so I will remove the bulb when I get around to it or fit a different light.

My keys are only about 10m and two brick walls away and I have to fold the mirrors to get it into the garage. Once folded manually they stay folded until manually unfolded. Normally they unfold and interior lights come on when you approach the car., but I thought it all shut itself off after a short while. When I had the Lexus there were a couple of places the key would not work in due to radio interference, Fortunately the local RAC man knew where they were, but I guess I will need to look into how you roll a hybrid.

Toyota really should have got to grips with this I hope you have hit the press Honest John is a good place to start.

[timberwolf]

If the Smart-key entry is a problem, the car should have been designed with an option to disable it?

[Aceshigh84]

Yeah, I'm sure it was an option when I was connected via the techstream. Your dealer should be able to do it without any hassle.

[Aceshigh84]

However, my keys aren't kept that far away at times, and i have never had a problem with the Battery, so I really think it is bad that Toyota can attempt to fob you off with such a poor excuse.

[RunningInPleasePass]

While your car was at the dealer being 'fixed' they would have kept the key in a keysafe in the garage and the car would have been out in the compound, now and again someone would remove the key, check to see if the car starts, then return the key.

When you have the car at home, you may have the key in your pocket, like I do, then every time you go near the car it senses the key and gets ready to start, thus draining the Battery.

After my car Battery let me down I have got into a routine with it to try and ensure it will not let me down again:

Interior lights turned off.

bluetooth turned off.

Auto lights turned off.

Auto wipers turned off.

Radio turned off.

Outside mirrors set to manual operation.

Try and avoid going near the car with the key in my pocket.

Up to now it's worked and the car has been fine, but I never completely trust it, which is a shame because the car is very good otherwise, and I think it only needs to have a bigger Battery.

[Aceshigh84]

While I can understand the thought process behind keeping the key far away and I know every time you approach the car it "lights up" in anticipation, I also know that I have washed my car on a number of occasions with the key in my pocket (against the manual's recommendation), I have had the car go through the unlock, the mirrors open etc and then lock again sequence numerous times as I go round with the pressure washer, Snow Foam, rinse, then wash with the mitt, then more water, then drying towel, then polish & or wax.

Long story short that number of times surely would have killed the Battery on mine if you guys are suffering as you are with the car parked on the drive and just walking past it once or twice?!

I think if you have a problem Toyota are fobbing you off. And that is wrong.

[geo13647]

Thanks guys for the support.

Yep I agree the 'keys too close' story is a total whitewash.

If you notice, when the car is being valetted in aToyota garage,

the keys are usually put on top of the wipers in the middle of the screen.

As this is considered the dead zone. Try it and see.

When I wash my car, the keys sit on a fence post, barely 1m from the front drivers side of the car.

This is far enough away to NOT trigger the locks et al.

So by keeping the keys another few meters in the same direction ( the dead zone) apparently is too close.

Something is a little whiffy here.

When I first got the car, everything was ok for about 2 months,

However, on the first really cold day, the car failed. Things went downhill from there.

Apparently mr T has never heard of component tolerance, and Battery management.

It is widely known in the electronics industry, that a deeply discharged lead acid Battery can often be damaged beyond repair.

In this case, normal Battery tests are meaningless, the unit may look (& test ) ok but it will now require expert diagnosis,

usually only possible by the manufacturer.

Again, it seems strange that, for all their use of electronics, mr T is ignorant of this fact.

Seems like I'm getting the car back on Monday, Just in time for it to fail for Xmas.

Time will tell.

G...

[geo13647]

If the Smart-key entry is a problem, the car should have been designed with an option to disable it?

Yep, you can, but it's supposed to be a selling point of the car...

[geo13647]

Just got the Auto Express 'Driver Power' survey in my inbox.

'What do you think of your car?'

This could be interesting...

G...

[Nicolai]

My TS does not have auto wipers, folding mirrors or smart start. Had it since august and done approx. 3,500 miles. No Battery problems so far. Lots of short runs (0-2 miles) and from 21st October to 13th december a daily commute of 10 miles to and from a company in which I have been a trainee. What's the wheel problem mentioned in this thread about?

My OEM Bridgestones were bumpy for a long time, and my Conti TS850 winter tires are noisy (especially on damp roads. Almost like a faint whistle. Thought it was the engine (very clear when pedal is pushed to the ground) but I think it's the tires.

[cviclark]

Nicolai

My wheel problem will not affect you. My Excel has 17" wheels, with LP tyres, that I neither like nor wanted but I could not get insured if I changed them as Toyota claim the Excel TS is not homologated for use with other wheels. This has a dire affect on fuel consumption (average is now only 49 mpg). My annoyance with the speedo is that It is too well hidden and hard to read when 30mph or 50mph speed limits are entered. Illogically its calibrated to 160mph (doubt it would even get to 120) so the marks are too close, on the RH side of the "rev counter" (power monitor) while most are on the left to keep it in eye-line and not marked at 50 or 30. My annoyance is that it would be a very simple fix to put digital speed, rather than Average Speed on the trip monitor. Toyota in their normal arrogant way say this cannot be done.

[Nicolai]

I too consider it strange that the speedo is calibrated for a much higher speed than the TS will ever be able to reach. I have no problems reading the speedo though (and as mine is in km/h, it may be even more cluttered than yours.