Don't Buy A Toyota Auris Excel Hybrid.

[RunningInPleasePass]

Just got the Auto Express 'Driver Power' survey in my inbox.

'What do you think of your car?'

This could be interesting...

G...

I have also just completed this survey.

I must admit that a simple thing like a flat 12 volt Battery certainly colours your opinions, which is a shame, because if Toyota had simply swapped the Battery straight away, instead of giving me the run around for three weeks, I would have marked them far higher then I have.

[geo13647]

Just got the Auto Express 'Driver Power' survey in my inbox.

'What do you think of your car?'

This could be interesting...

G...

I have also just completed this survey.

I must admit that a simple thing like a flat 12 volt Battery certainly colours your opinions, which is a shame, because if Toyota had simply swapped the Battery straight away, instead of giving me the run around for three weeks, I would have marked them far higher then I have.

Yep, it's a shame that 'The Toyota Way' for manufacturing principles,

seem to have absolutely no bearing on their technical services or customer relations.

Makes a bit of a mockery of all the Statistical Process Control, Kanban, Kaizen and all the other manufacturing technobabble,

That they claim they use to build the cars,

Think they need to add a chapter or 2 on specification, component tolerances, Battery management and technical support,

As these seem to be missing from the current book.

[geo13647]

While your car was at the dealer being 'fixed' they would have kept the key in a keysafe in the garage and the car would have been out in the compound, now and again someone would remove the key, check to see if the car starts, then return the key.

When you have the car at home, you may have the key in your pocket, like I do, then every time you go near the car it senses the key and gets ready to start, thus draining the battery.

After my car battery let me down I have got into a routine with it to try and ensure it will not let me down again:

Interior lights turned off.

Bluetooth turned off.

Auto lights turned off.

Auto wipers turned off.

Radio turned off.

Outside mirrors set to manual operation.

Try and avoid going near the car with the key in my pocket.

Up to now it's worked and the car has been fine, but I never completely trust it, which is a shame because the car is very good otherwise, and I think it only needs to have a bigger battery.

Fair enough turning all the above off. BUT the car is sold with these as supposedly working premium components, that you pay handsomely for.

The fact that you HAVE to turn them off to make the car work, means that Toyota is selling a car under false pretences,

And could be actionable.

[cviclark]

How did you get the driver survey? I would like to add my fourpeneth worth in the hope Toyota get the message. Unless they gop back to the basics , well engineered, reliable cars and attention to detail this will be my last. I can't see Ford or Kia making such basic mistakes or getting away with it. They just do not accept that a car is a technical piece of kit that needs technically competent people to service, sell and market. The idiots at Toyota GB should be fired with enthusiasm. I forget how many recalls my Prius had but it was too many. I now feel this Auris is a Beta test machine, if so they should listen to the feedback and not just label it at negative criticism.

[RunningInPleasePass]

How did you get the driver survey? I would like to add my fourpeneth worth in the hope Toyota get the message. Unless they gop back to the basics , well engineered, reliable cars and attention to detail this will be my last. I can't see Ford or Kia making such basic mistakes or getting away with it. They just do not accept that a car is a technical piece of kit that needs technically competent people to service, sell and market. The idiots at Toyota GB should be fired with enthusiasm. I forget how many recalls my Prius had but it was too many. I now feel this Auris is a Beta test machine, if so they should listen to the feedback and not just label it at negative criticism.

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/driver-power

[geo13647]

Car back, countdown clock started, let's see how long I get this time.

Nice email back from Toyota customer services, telling me there was no fault with my car, and I should keep the keys further away.

Interesting bit of info saying that it takes 20 mins to go from running to shutdown, assuming the keys are not close.

So that's 20 mins at ~600 mA from a 35 AH Battery, before it drops to quiescent ~60mA.

assuming, some short journeys of a couple of miles, resulting in little or no charge,

Any slight variation in tolerance or current demand,

then a flat Battery is inevitable, rather than possible.

Oh well!

G...

[cviclark]

Do not try to confuse Toyota GB with technical logic. When I complained about the wheels they told me to buy a different car. They are not technically competent and will not allow your dealer to challenge their decisions. Even when they are wrong.

[aCactus]

Car back, countdown clock started, let's see how long I get this time.

Nice email back from Toyota customer services, telling me there was no fault with my car, and I should keep the keys further away.

Looks like the problem is where you keep the car (but perhaps not where you keep your keys) There are quite a lot of gadgets now using radio transmitters so perhaps one of your neighbours has something that is interfering with your car and keeping it "awake" as the dealer's "test" has shown no significant drain when on their premises.

I do mainly very short journeys and my keys are probably less than 10m from the car overnight (car on driveway and keys in bedroom). If there was a basic design fault I am sure I would have had a flat Battery by know....

[geo13647]

Car back, countdown clock started, let's see how long I get this time.

Nice email back from Toyota customer services, telling me there was no fault with my car, and I should keep the keys further away.

Looks like the problem is where you keep the car (but perhaps not where you keep your keys) There are quite a lot of gadgets now using radio transmitters so perhaps one of your neighbours has something that is interfering with your car and keeping it "awake" as the dealer's "test" has shown no significant drain when on their premises.

I do mainly very short journeys and my keys are probably less than 10m from the car overnight (car on driveway and keys in bedroom). If there was a basic design fault I am sure I would have had a flat Battery by know....

Which is a product of poor RF design, leading to safety & security issues.

However! My previous car, an iQ3 also had the same Smart start & entry, parked in exactly the same place, with the keys kept in exactly the same place, for 4 years with no issues whatsoever.

Which just means you don't have a sub-standard or marginal Battery.

[johalareewi]

Would the smart key system 'wake up' when other smart keys are in the area?

Having your own key close fires it up but how about a different smart key?

The vehicle SKS would have to query any smart key to determine if it was 'the key' or not.

[aCactus]

Anything transmitting on (or near) the same frequency will "wake up" the system so that it can do a quick check to see if it is the correct key. If it finds a match then the more energy intensive unlocking etc will start. For the Prius I find the unlocking range is a very short distance from the sensors, trying to open the back door often fails and I need to take a step sideways to pretend to open the front door to get the car to unlock.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2057036/Trapped-drive-TV-How-set-boxes-interfering-car-key-fobs.html

[cviclark]

Hi

If you log on to Priuschat.com from the USA there is a lot of info on Battery drain of Gen2 Prius. In the USA some people have replaced the original 12v with an Optima Battery which is supposed to be better. They also claim improved fuel consumption (cant work out how a 12v auxiliary Battery would have any affect on fuel), the point is most problems are from the cold states. No batteries are as efficient when cold as warm, which is why most fail on cold mornings. I would not go back to a main dealer to buy an OEM replacement if my battery failed. I would buy a Bosch sealed S5 with the biggest capacity (aH) that would physically fit. I do not understand why with all the feedback on the web Toyota still fit weedy batteries to feed more complex and power hungry systems.

[Joseph D]

They also claim it improved fuel consumption (can't work out how a 12v auxiliary battery would have any affect on fuel)

If the 12v Battery is on the way out and not holding its charge as it should then the HV will spend more time using its reserves to charge the 12v. This in turn requires more fuel to be used to replenish the HV. Having a larger capacity 12v will have an inverse effect.

I can personally testify to this effect when I replaced my Toyota OEM Battery (due to it falling and not holding its charge) with a Bosch S4 from Euro car parts for £55 (now £69, I believe) and fitted it myself. Prior to this I struggled to do better than 48-52 mpg and hardly ever had a green HV shown on the HSI. After, easily got late 50's early 60's in summer and regularly got green Battery while doing regular driving - even on the motorway.

HTH.

[cviclark]

Hi

Thanks for that info. It explains why I could never work out the logic of when the engine would start on any of the 3 HSD cars I have owned.. Looks like my third "upgrade" from standard will be a Bosch 60 ah Battery. Ist is the Hude (if they can get it to work). 2nd wheels & tyres 3rd Battery. Pity Toyota cannot work out the logic for us, but then that would necessitate them hireing people who had owned and payed for their cars (more than one).

[geo13647]

Hi

Thanks for that info. It explains why I could never work out the logic of when the engine would start on any of the 3 HSD cars I have owned.. Looks like my third "upgrade" from standard will be a Bosch 60 ah battery. Ist is the Hude (if they can get it to work). 2nd wheels & tyres 3rd battery. Pity Toyota cannot work out the logic for us, but then that would necessitate them hireing people who had owned and payed for their cars (more than one).

No point asking mr T for anything technical, they cannot even get the 12v aux Battery & charging system right.

G...

[cviclark]

Just returned from my first long round trip of 500 miles and about 300 while away. Fuel consumption down to 48mpg (same trip last year gen 3 Prius 57 mpg) . Part of the trip was in convoy with a relative with a Lexus CT 200 H F1 which returned 55mpg. Elderly rear seat passengers and my grandchildren complained of cold feet. Looks as if there are no rear warm air vents. The book says it depends on the model. Mine is an Excel TS ( maybe TS means two seater rather than an estate) which is supposed to be top of range. Even with the heater on full to just the floor nothing came out at the back. Toyota should list the things this car does not have, is it because it is dual zone, or auto air con, or has seat warmers? In this country a warm car in the winter is not a Luxury.

OK so a full load, heater on, spare tyre, too small 12v Battery for ancillaries, stupid LP tyres may account for the heavy fuel consumption but it is an expensive estate car I do not expect to have to spend even more money to make it economical.

I am very disappointed. The last cold car I had was an air cooled VW.

[Ratho1]

I've just done 300 miles in 50 mile runs and on filling up find that I get 48 mpg whereas the computer tells me 55 mpg. That's the second time so It looks as if that will be normal at this time of year and the computer device is hopelessly wrong ( deliberately ?). My A3 1.4 TSI managed 45 mpg.

I have my heater set at 21c and have been finding it on the cool side in the cabin so am about to turn up the wick. I've no idea how cold it is in the back though.Must check for air vents. The car seems to mist up very easily too, although the demister works very well but shouldn't be needed so much. I'm surprised at what is missing from a top of the range car e.g. only one reversing light at the back, no spare wheel just foam, too much tyre roar. I have to say that Audi do it so much better for the same price with the A3.

[Chris Dance]

All the Toyota cars I have owned mist up easily I found that to clear it quickly use the air con. As for no spare wheel that is one thing that will stop me buying a new car; I just hope manufacturers realise customers want a spare wheel, a can of gunge is useless. 45 MPG seems a poor consumption. I am doing a long motorway journey next week I will check the fuel consumption on our Prius.

[Nozuka]

I've just done 300 miles in 50 mile runs and on filling up find that I get 48 mpg whereas the computer tells me 55 mpg. That's the second time so It looks as if that will be normal at this time of year and the computer device is hopelessly wrong ( deliberately ?). My A3 1.4 TSI managed 45 mpg.

I have my heater set at 21c and have been finding it on the cool side in the cabin so am about to turn up the wick. I've no idea how cold it is in the back though.Must check for air vents. The car seems to mist up very easily too, although the demister works very well but shouldn't be needed so much. I'm surprised at what is missing from a top of the range car e.g. only one reversing light at the back, no spare wheel just foam, too much tyre roar. I have to say that Audi do it so much better for the same price with the A3.

I think they can adjust the computer, if you tell them the numbers. They are wrong on most cars, no matter the manufacturer.

Just keep monitoring it, to find the percentage of inaccuracy.

[Mickfb]

I have had my Auris Exel touring Sports for 3 months now and have done 4700 miles. I just love this car. It's so relaxing to drive and comfortable. I was getting 57 mpg (true mpg) but as winter crept in it has dropped to 54 ish. I don't consider this bad for a petrol automatic car (paying petrol prices not diesel). Also when I pop in to town, which is about 3 miles it will still give over 45 mpg. I have no problem with the 17in wheels. They where on the test drive car so if people don't won't them why do they still buy it ?

As for the 12 volt batterie problem, touchwood I have not had a problem. Must admit it is used most days.

I bought a space saver wheel when I purchased the car.

It has not being all plain sailing, the touch and go plus kept resting its self. Toyota replaced it after they had the car for 2 days before it played up them.

So what I am trying to say is that there are people out there that really love this car.

It is certainly not a perfect car but what is. I did a lot of research before buying this car and it certainly wasn't cheap, but over all I think I made the right choice.

Mick

[Nicolai]

With regards t cabin to temperature: I am experiencing the same problems: when aircon is on 22 degrees the cabin still feels cold, rear passenger complains about feeling cold, I feel cold, and there are several thermal bridges (one just above the wheel at 12 a clock position. From these bridges, the airflow is very cold and it doesn't feel like it has be warmed up to the temperature displayed on the zircon system.

[Ratho1]

Just back from a decent run. Turned the wick up to 23c and the heat on my face was hot, as you might expect. However, very little seemed to be getting to my feet, so I turned off the face vents using the up/down controls expecting to get a rush of hot air down below, and nothing. Yes there is a little air trickling out but not enough to keep my feet warm.Checked the rear of the car and as others have said, there is no heater provision in the back.No wonder rear passengers are complaining. My God, even cheap cars have that these days. The more I find out about this car the more I feel cheated. There seems to have been an awful lot of sneaky cost cutting going on. I never expected a top of the range car to be missing so many modern essentials that other similarly priced cars have as a matter of course. These are things that are not obvious from a perusal of the brochure. I do a lot of research and test drives before buying a car but I see that I'll have to take my Sherlock Holmes spyglass with me next time. Pity really because I quite like this car actually in spite of everything. Just a pity it isn't finished off properly.

[RunningInPleasePass]

I've also noticed that the car feels cool.

Set to Auto with Air Conditioning off, and temperature set at 22^oC, when you first starts up, it soon gets up to temperature and feels okay, then after a while it begins to feel cooler.

I've started to increase the temperature setting after about an hour of driving to make it feel more comfortable.

Your right about having no vents to the rear seats, I'm sure my old model Auris diesel had them, it certainly felt warmer then this car.

Perhaps it's a hybrid car thing, to generate heat you need the engine running, so to improve efficiency you need to feel cooler!

[Nicolai]

I've also noticed that the car feels cool.

Set to Auto with Air Conditioning off, and temperature set at 22^oC, when you first starts up, it soon gets up to temperature and feels okay, then after a while it begins to feel cooler.

I've started to increase the temperature setting after about an hour of driving to make it feel more comfortable.

(...)

Perhaps it's a hybrid car thing, to generate heat you need the engine running, so to improve efficiency you need to feel cooler!

My experiences exactly! After a while it gets cold, on short runs no problems. Been thinking it could be a hybrid thing as well...

[Nozuka]

Does the UK Auris Hybrid have the EHR? (Exhaust Heat Recirculation)

Toyota only installs it in regions they consider "cold". For example: Austria has it, Germany doesn't.

People found out about the difference, because some were complaining about the heating performance, while others were perfectly happy with it.

Here's some info from the prius (the pictures are in english..)

http://www.priuswiki.de/index.php?title=Abgasw%C3%A4rmer%C3%BCckf%C3%BChrung_(Exhaust_Heat_Recovery)

But then again this is probably only used for the first warming up of the engine and you seem to be complaining about the "lasting" effect of the heater.

But it does give some insight how Toyota tries to safe money here and there...